LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[Entropy]

Clearly you think it's lame, doesn't make it so. I like it. We'll see.

It just lacks any epicness or tie into the Big Story, correct? It doesn't make sense from a writing standpoint that they would be focused on Rose and Bernard, characters that were tangential at best during the run of the show when introducing what Darlton themselves have called the first major mystery of the show. I just don't see them setting up the big light vs dark struggle, vision of Locke's duality stuff in the same breath as the notion that the 'black stone is the black woman and white stone is her white husband the audience will meet in the middle of the second season' who then play no significant part for rest of the series. weaksauce.

 

[pixletwin]

It just lacks any epicness or tie into the Big Story, correct? It doesn't make sense from a writing standpoint that they would be focused on Rose and Bernard, characters that were tangential at best during the run of the show when introducing what Darlton themselves have called the first major mystery of the show. I just don't see them setting up the big light vs dark struggle, vision of Locke's duality stuff in the same breath as this black stone is the black woman and white stone is the white man we will meet in the middle of the second season.

It doesn't have to have any epicness. Why does everything have to be an earth shattering proposition for you? Clearly you don't have to agree with me. I'm not asking you to. I still think you are placing more importance on them than need be. That's ok. I am not looking to convince you nor do I feel the need to.

But you're wrong.

 

[Entropy]

It doesn't have to have any epicness. Why does everything have to be an earth shattering proposition for you?

uh, because that what you are supposed to do when you write fiction. Especially with a fantastical adventure yarn like Lost. And also especially with the very first introduced, and probably one of the last mysteries to be revealed.

I still think you are placing more importance on them than need be.

again, not me. the writers and show creators themselves have placed a large amount of importance on the skeletons over the years, which you obviously haven't paid attention to. They have built it up and if they didn't have something earth shattering as a reveal then it's a missed dramatic opportunity and Darlton have shot themselves in the foot by building it up and stoking the fans' expectations with nothing of import to back it up.

 

[pixletwin]

Trying multi quoting this:

Rose and Bernard are the skeletons. The skeletons are Rose and Bernard. Rose is one skeleton. Bernard is the other. There are two skeletons: Rose and Bernard. Fans forgot about the skeletons so Darlton have failed to make it a major plot point. Rose and Bernard died in the cave, decomposed, and are now skeletons.Rose and Bernard are the skeletons. The skeletons are Rose and Bernard. Rose is one skeleton. Bernard is the other. There are two skeletons: Rose and Bernard. Fans forgot about the skeletons so Darlton have failed to make it a major plot point. Rose and Bernard died in the cave, decomposed, and are now skeletons.Rose and Bernard are the skeletons. The skeletons are Rose and Bernard. Rose is one skeleton. Bernard is the other. There are two skeletons: Rose and Bernard. Fans forgot about the skeletons so Darlton have failed to make it a major plot point. Rose and Bernard died in the cave, decomposed, and are now skeletons.Rose and Bernard are the skeletons. The skeletons are Rose and Bernard. Rose is one skeleton. Bernard is the other. There are two skeletons: Rose and Bernard. Fans forgot about the skeletons so Darlton have failed to make it a major plot point. Rose and Bernard died in the cave, decomposed, and are now skeletons.Rose and Bernard are the skeletons. The skeletons are Rose and Bernard. Rose is one skeleton. Bernard is the other. There are two skeletons: Rose and Bernard. Fans forgot about the skeletons so Darlton have failed to make it a major plot point. Rose and Bernard died in the cave, decomposed, and are now skeletons.Rose and Bernard are the skeletons. The skeletons are Rose and Bernard. Rose is one skeleton. Bernard is the other. There are two skeletons: Rose and Bernard. Fans forgot about the skeletons so Darlton have failed to make it a major plot point. Rose and Bernard died in the cave, decomposed, and are now skeletons.Rose and Bernard are the skeletons. The skeletons are Rose and Bernard. Rose is one skeleton. Bernard is the other. There are two skeletons: Rose and Bernard. Fans forgot about the skeletons so Darlton have failed to make it a major plot point. Rose and Bernard died in the cave, decomposed, and are now skeletons.Rose and Bernard are the skeletons. The skeletons are Rose and Bernard. Rose is one skeleton. Bernard is the other. There are two skeletons: Rose and Bernard. Fans forgot about the skeletons so Darlton have failed to make it a major plot point. Rose and Bernard died in the cave, decomposed, and are now skeletons.Rose and Bernard are the skeletons. The skeletons are Rose and Bernard. Rose is one skeleton. Bernard is the other. There are two skeletons: Rose and Bernard. Fans forgot about the skeletons so Darlton have failed to make it a major plot point. Rose and Bernard died in the cave, decomposed, and are now skeletons.Rose and Bernard are the skeletons. The skeletons are Rose and Bernard. Rose is one skeleton. Bernard is the other. There are two skeletons: Rose and Bernard. Fans forgot about the skeletons so Darlton have failed to make it a major plot point. Rose and Bernard died in the cave, decomposed, and are now skeletons.Rose and Bernard are the skeletons. The skeletons are Rose and Bernard. Rose is one skeleton. Bernard is the other. There are two skeletons: Rose and Bernard. Fans forgot about the skeletons so Darlton have failed to make it a major plot point. Rose and Bernard died in the cave, decomposed, and are now skeletons.Rose and Bernard are the skeletons. The skeletons are Rose and Bernard. Rose is one skeleton. Bernard is the other. There are two skeletons: Rose and Bernard. Fans forgot about the skeletons so Darlton have failed to make it a major plot point. Rose and Bernard died in the cave, decomposed, and are now skeletons.

 

[Entropy]

the petulant child routine, eh?

 

[pixletwin]

=

j/k entropy. we'll see. If I'm wrong cool. If I am right, I don't care.

 

[pixletwin]

the petulant child routine, eh?

You are taking yourself and this thread far too seriously. Lighten up.

 

[Entropy]

I love theories so long as they cite more than gut feelings to back them up. And yes, I take storytelling very seriously.

It may very well be Rose and Bernie. I just can't think of a good payoff for that and think they have other more exciting dramatic choices.

EDIT: Found this: The producers said that there was an anagram in "Not in Portland" that would shed some light on the Adam and Eve skeletons. Most often cited is the "Mittelos" "Lost Time" anagram. "Only fools are enslaved by time and space" can be heard playing backwards in room 23. An anagram for this is " Bones of Nadlers may lay lost deep in cave". Nadler is Rose and Bernard's surname! Hmm...

It would save the trouble of having another time travel sequence but the significance of the white and black stones and why Jack hid them from Locke just doesn't feel powerful enough for me in that scenario. But perhaps I'm giving the writers too much credit and they were merely planting the time travel seeds and not tying it into the larger Jacob vs MiB story and their light & dark stone back and forth contest.

Regardless, I like Jack finding his own body as a more unexpected and extreme dramatic twist.

 

[SwedishHeat]

I think the skeletons have to be Rose and Bernard. Lost never really swerves us on the big mysteries. We had hints that Claire was really Jack's sister. . . we'd had hints that Richard arrived on the Black Rock. A lot of the times they create mysteries and give us clues and pay them off. There's too much evidence at this point for the skeletons not to be Rose and Bernard. Right now, for all we know they're still stuck in 1975, they're already in their 60s, and right now we're in 2005, or something, in the timeline, that would make them in their 90s. Without modern health care and medicine I doubt they could've survived that long into old age.

Point being, they're setting up that Rose and Bernard are the skeletons, and I don't think Lost has ever set something up to go and then gone this far in the opposite direction.

 

[Entropy]

As the clothes have not fully decayed, they do seem to be more recent skeletons and not from dinosaur times as Hurley had suggested.
The stones are really the stumbling block for me. Why would R&B have them? Doesn't wash with me they leave them as a clue to their identities for the 815ers or that R&B would get them from Jacob or MiB.

 

[tomandshell]

I think the fact that they recently had Hurley point them out and say, "Maybe we went back in time and that's us" lets us know that the writers are aware of our theory that Adam & Eve are two of our Losties--and they have something else planned.

I think that it's far more likely that the time travel is behind us, and we will discover that the most obvious answer is correct--the bodies belong to previous inhabitants of the Island. Maybe the bodies belong to MIB and his crazy mom. That's my guess. Now MIB has to go around assuming the form of others because his physical body was taken away by Jacob. Add to that the fact that it would make sense for MIB's body to have those little black and white stones, since we are seeing that they are a part of MIB and Jacob's ongoing "game."

I was thinking back to season 4 with the flashes back and forth,i remember Sawyer was helping Locke down the hole to turn the wheel,can`t remember if it was the last flash atfer Locke turned the wheel and the hole was not there anymore after the flash,just the rope down in the dirt,but they saw the full Statue right in front of them,which means they flashed all the way back to before 1867 when Richard came to the Island,

As I understand things, it is correct that the flashes took them back to some point prior to 1867. Locke goes down the well, and then there is a flash that seals the ground. They turn around and see the statue, while Locke is underground with the wheel. Locke then encounters Christian (presumably MIB?) underground at the same time. So why was Christian appearing on the Island pre-1867? Or was MIB flashing along with our characters? If MIB was waiting for Locke in 1867, then I cannot explain his appearance and comments about saying hello to his son. (This would chronologically have been MIB's first encounter with Locke.) All they needed was one more flash that would have removed any timeframe/context from Christian's appearance in the cave--but as it stands, we saw Christian on the Island some time before the arrival of the Black Rock. I can't explain that one yet...

(Unless MIB was indeed taking part in the flashes, and possibly even controlling them and bringing certain people along in order to put the final pieces of his plan in place.)

 

[Entropy]

Fun theory and first time I've heard that one. The MiB's crazy mom thing and the problems she caused him are very intriguing. I wonder if we will ever find out his name? Or if Jacob is the original Island caretaker?

I don't know what would prevent MiB from appearing as Christian in any time period.

 

[Darthrazz]

Fun theory and first time I've heard that one. The MiB's crazy mom thing and the problems she caused him are very intriguing. I wonder if we will ever find out his name? Or if Jacob is the original Island caretaker?

Maybe Jacob is actually one the current Losties! oooooooooooh!

 

[pixletwin]

Nice idea Tom. I like to be surprised. So if I turn out to be wrong at least I will find myself entertained. Noone wants their favorite show to be predictable!

 

[tomandshell]

Fun theory and first time I've heard that one. The MiB's crazy mom thing and the problems she caused him are very intriguing. I wonder if we will ever find out his name? Or if Jacob is the original Island caretaker?

I kind of wonder whether or not Jacob/MIB are the original inhabitants of the Island. Did they build the statue and the temple, etc.? I don't know how much of the history of the Island itself we are bound to get, but questions like these matter a lot more to me than, "Why was Jin locked in Keamy's freezer in the sideways timeline?"

Maybe we haven't gotten MIB's name yet because it actually is Jacob. (For a second, I actually expected him to introduce himself to Richard as Jacob in this week's episode.) There is obviously something going on with Jacob "betraying" MIB and "stealing his body and humanity." I have a strong feeling that MIB's identity and his relationship with Jacob are going to be very interesting when finally revealed to us. (Assuming that's actually going to happen...)

 

[pixletwin]

....There is obviously something going on with Jacob "betraying" MIB and "stealing his body and humanity." ...

The Master said this in the Doctor Who movie about the Doctor (as a lie to persuade a naive kid to help him) and it was a stupid story line then. I hope that's not the case now.

 

[Rock83]

I think the fact that they recently had Hurley point them out and say, "Maybe we went back in time and that's us" lets us know that the writers are aware of our theory that Adam & Eve are two of our Losties--and they have something else planned.

I think that it's far more likely that the time travel is behind us, and we will discover that the most obvious answer is correct--the bodies belong to previous inhabitants of the Island. Maybe the bodies belong to MIB and his crazy mom. That's my guess. Now MIB has to go around assuming the form of others because his physical body was taken away by Jacob. Add to that the fact that it would make sense for MIB's body to have those little black and white stones, since we are seeing that they are a part of MIB and Jacob's ongoing "game."



As I understand things, it is correct that the flashes took them back to some point prior to 1867. Locke goes down the well, and then there is a flash that seals the ground. They turn around and see the statue, while Locke is underground with the wheel. Locke then encounters Christian (presumably MIB?) underground at the same time. So why was Christian appearing on the Island pre-1867? Or was MIB flashing along with our characters? If MIB was waiting for Locke in 1867, then I cannot explain his appearance and comments about saying hello to his son. (This would chronologically have been MIB's first encounter with Locke.) All they needed was one more flash that would have removed any timeframe/context from Christian's appearance in the cave--but as it stands, we saw Christian on the Island some time before the arrival of the Black Rock. I can't explain that one yet...

(Unless MIB was indeed taking part in the flashes, and possibly even controlling them and bringing certain people along in order to put the final pieces of his plan in place.)

Yeah probably because MIB is trapped on the Island right?So he travels through time along with the Island,that is my guess.But with Jacob and MIB there can be many explanations for this.

 

[Darthrazz]

So...I've kind of lost track of this segment...Who said "Help Me" in the cabin??? Was it MIB? So was he Jack's father?

 

[Entropy]

I kind of wonder whether or not Jacob/MIB are the original inhabitants of the Island. Did they build the statue and the temple, etc.? I don't know how much of the history of the Island itself we are bound to get, but questions like these matter a lot more to me than, "Why was Jin locked in Keamy's freezer in the sideways timeline?"

Maybe we haven't gotten MIB's name yet because it actually is Jacob. (For a second, I actually expected him to introduce himself to Richard as Jacob in this week's episode.) There is obviously something going on with Jacob "betraying" MIB and "stealing his body and humanity." I have a strong feeling that MIB's identity and his relationship with Jacob are going to be very interesting when finally revealed to us. (Assuming that's actually going to happen...)

Agreed. There is a familial tinge, perhaps sibling rivalry, in their interactions. I'd love a Jacob or MiB flashback origin, we are surely going to learn the identity of MiB's mom and what happened there, or an island origin ep could be cool, but I'm not sure they'll go that route when a bit of exposition can explain the Tarawet and Temple construction.

 

[tomandshell]

So...I've kind of lost track of this segment...Who said "Help Me" in the cabin??? Was it MIB? So was he Jack's father?

I'm still not certain who that voice belonged to. We clearly saw the Smoke Monster around the Island at the same time, and the ring of ash was presumably keeping him from entering Jacob's Cabin--making it a reliable place to go and hear from Jacob without the chance of being tricked by MIB. Later, when Locke returned and saw Christian there with Claire, we didn't see the ring of ash and we can assume that it had been disturbed. It was definitely disturbed (they showed us) by the time Ilana got there and told Bram that "someone else" had been using the cabin. When exactly MIB gained access and started using it for his own purposes is still a bit of a mystery.