LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[pixletwin]

Well judging by the what was happening to the island it would seem to mean the end of the world. Pretty sure the writers made that clear.. at least it was to me.

 

[Memnoch]

And what consequences would that be? I starting to believe that he was condemned for his curiosity.

He had a crazy mother who forbade him and his brother from leaving the Island. This fostered resentment, MiB went to live with those "Others" on the Island while Jacob stayed with Mother. MiB believed men were evil as his mother did, Jacob didn't. MiB was ready to remove all of what he perceived as evil should he leave the Island. Jacob wouldn't let him go because he believed man was good.

 

[lcummins]

Well judging by the what was happening to the island it would seem to mean the end of the world. Pretty sure the writers made that clear.. at least it was to me.

But that was due to "turning off the light" and had nothing to do with MiB wanting to leave the island as a young man... just doesn't add up like so many of the supposed "answers"... at least for me.

 

[pixletwin]

Because of what Jacob caused, the MiB was tied to the essence of the Island. Smokie leaves --> the Island dies. What Jack and Desmond did, essentially, was to sanctify the water which was tied to the MiB's evil power by letting the water out (hence MiB regains his mortality), Kill MiB, and then refill the cave with clean water.

Not sure where all of the confusion is coming from, but that's how I saw it.

Edit: I just realized you qualified your statement with "as a young man".

 

[JediMike71]

Loved the ending, absolutely fantastic and totally satisfying. To all the haters that said not everything was answered....the show is not about the island or mysteries, the show is about the broken and lost people that crashed on the island and how, through each other, they found themselves and found their purpose. That is all.

That's a great explanation! Remember when Jacob told Sawyer, Kate, Jack, and Hurley that when he found them all they were all "lost" and "alone" in their own way. Along with Jin, Sun, Locke, Charlie, Claire and Sayid. They were all broken in one way or another. Coming together and finding their purpose in life. Yeah, I agree.

 

[pixletwin]

He couldn't leave the island as a young man because he was supposed to be the new Protector.

 

[LOTRFan]

But that was due to "turning off the light" and had nothing to do with MiB wanting to leave the island as a young man... just doesn't add up like so many of the supposed "answers"... at least for me.

Thanks Lonnie, that was what I was referring to earlier about a lack of dire situation.

 

[lcummins]

...Edit: I just realized you qualified your statement with "as a young man".

Yeah, before he became Smokey... and he was right about his "mother" being crazy. She killed the real mother and took the two babies for no apparent reason, raised them with the knowledge there was nothing beyond the island (an obvious lie), and told them they couldn't leave. And why couldn't they leave? Just because she didn't want to lose them? No wonder MiB wanted to leave the Island so badly... who would blame him? His only real crime before becoming Smokey, was to kill his non-real mother for butchering his adopted family and friends and lying to him his whole life. And he is considered evil? Just doesn't add up I tell you!

 

[keysta75]

He had a crazy mother who forbade him and his brother from leaving the Island. This fostered resentment, MiB went to live with those "Others" on the Island while Jacob stayed with Mother. MiB believed men were evil as his mother did, Jacob didn't. MiB was ready to remove all of what he perceived as evil should he leave the Island. Jacob wouldn't let him go because he believed man was good.

OK what I gather from your statement is that MiB(poor boy with no name) his intentions were good but if he left the Island his methods on banishing evil from men would have been wrong.

 

[pixletwin]

He became a monster mad with anger (partly Jacob's acknowledged fault) intent on nothing but destroying to get what he wanted. Is that not evil?

 

[lcummins]

He became a monster mad with anger (partly Jacob's acknowledged fault) intent on nothing but destroying to get what he wanted. Is that not evil?

If you cage a dog and won't let him out to roam free, and he becomes "mad" and will bite any human that comes near him, is he evil?

 

[lcummins]

If any of us were forced to stay on a tiny island for 2000+ years, would we do the same as MiB to get off?

 

[automaton]

I have to weigh in on my thoughts about the series finale, but first, I want to point out a couple things. I'm not one to hate on a show like this up front, and generally I understand the complexity with creating a satisfying end to anything, particularly a long running novel-like series. While I felt there were still a couple key questions to answer, I felt they'd get to them in the final 2.5 hours, no prob, since they seemed key to the final conflict. Sure, there's plenty of annoying smaller questions that may or may not be answered on a rewatch of the entire series (now that we know the end), but overall I was satisfied with where we were going in to the finale, and was pretty geeked about the conclusion. When Hurley said "I have a bad feeling about this", I should have been paying attention.

Yes, I am disappointed. Very. Not about the island scenes in the finale - I think they wrapped that up pretty well. I still have one major question left in my mind that I felt they needed to answer (why was smokey getting off the island such a big deal? How was that going to be the end of everything?) But the conflict played out well, Ben helping out Hurley felt right, and I can live with where the island universe ended.

But not the sideways universe. To find out that it meant NOTHING to the rest of the story - nothing to the island or it's mythos or Jacob and Smokey or ANYTHING - really pissed me off. There are so many holes and inconsistencies in the concept of this 'waiting room' to whatever afterlife awaits beyond that it's like a completely different show was being brought to us each week in between the island Lost scenes, and we didn't know it. There was so much potential for a cool alternate realtiy/ time travel show, with some sort of basis in science and logic, and they gave us Touched by an Angel.

BTW, the sideways universe ISN'T purgatory. Christian said it was a world they created to find themselves before moving on. But don't even get me started on the whole sideways thing - it's ridiculous. Who's perspective are we seeing it from? They all died at different times, so why are they all on the plane together? Aaron is a baby? Again, who's perspective is this from? Jack appears to be happy with his death, as though he's seeing what's the outcome, and yet he actually is then in the 'waiting room' unwilling to accept it until it's pretty much forced on him? The entire sideways universe was a poorly constructed story, almost like it was from different writers.

I was really looking forward to rewatching the boxed set with the new information gathered from the last dozen episodes. Not so much any more. Everything that happened in the sideways reality, and the entire "we're all dead and moving on" ending has NO bearing on any of the mysteries of the island. It has nothing to do with the time travel concepts set up with Faraday earlier, and it even makes some things more confusing - where did Desmond go when he was blasted by the hatch? Back in time? Another reality? (we don't even know if such a thing exists in the Lost realm any more) Or was he just dead for awhile, seeing things in that state in the 'waiting room'?

So yea, I'm disappointed. I hoped last night that after pondering it a bit, I'd get less disappointed - sadly, the opposite is happening. Hopefully the end spoke to some folks, but for me, it wasn't any better - and perhaps worse - than JR waking up in the shower.

i was also surprised as to how so many seasons of brilliant storytelling led to a finale with a "bunch of stuff happens" vibe. I think the ending would have been fitting for the series if perhaps it was 2 or 3 seasons... but to take us on a journey of 6 seasons with this result is a con.

 

[pixletwin]

If you cage a dog and won't let him out to roam free, and he becomes "mad" and will bite any human that comes near him, is he evil?

He is something "that you would call evil" [per Jacob] which was needed to be contained. So I think your analogy is a good one. The answer that is yes. A mad animal is a danger to others and you could say that it is evil.

Just because MiB was a victim to an extent does not absolve him of the consequences of his insanity. It's a mistake Jacob confessed to be responsible for, but that didn't make the need to contain him less nor does it negate the dire consequences which would result in letting him leave the island unchecked.

 

[keysta75]

Yeah, before he became Smokey... and he was right about his "mother" being crazy. She killed the real mother and took the two babies for no apparent reason, raised them with the knowledge there was nothing beyond the island (an obvious lie), and told them they couldn't leave. And why couldn't they leave? Just because she didn't want to lose them? No wonder MiB wanted to leave the Island so badly... who would blame him? His only real crime before becoming Smokey, was to kill his non-real mother for butchering his adopted family and friends and lying to him his whole life. And he is considered evil? Just doesn't add up I tell you!

I agree. I believe he had the right to know what was out there and leave the decision up to him to protect the Island or become the destroyer of it (it was his choice to make). Until that part of the LOST story I was lead to believe that he was the worst thing on the Island.

 

[Michael Crawford]

Because he was willing to leave the island regardless of the consequences to anyone else in the world.

What consequences? Sadly, we were never given any insight into what would happen if he left. On the one hand, it seems like he's just an evil dude that would hurt people so that's why he couldn't leave - on the other, seems like somehow it would hurt the island, although that seems pretty unlikely since Smokey himself didn't think he could destroy the island until he found out about Desmond.

And I agree that they did a poor job of making Smokey evil - at least in context with others, like Jacob. If you factor in the potential for Smokey to know what happens when you die (which makes sense now, since he is partly the light and has been closer to it than any other surviving being), then his killing of those that were useless to him makes sense - he was sending them into the light, rather than leave them trapped on Jacob's island.

 

[Michael Crawford]

I believe that they are actually back at the island - in the light. That was the whole point to protecting the island and the light, because without them, when people died that would be it. Meaningless. So by protecting the light, they are protecting eternal spiritual life. If the island was destroyed, the world wouldn't end, but the afterlife would, since they're no longer be this place for our combined souls aka heaven.

Michael is back there too - as a lost soul, I suppose, although I'm not sure what he did that was so bad that he can't enter the light with the rest of them. The 'rules' for ending up in the light vs ending up in the choir of lost souls vs ending up in the 'waiting room' for however long you would like seem a bit fast and loose.

There's lots of apparent inconsistencies too - remember that Jacob told Richard that he couldn't bring his wife back to him...but didn't Jacob know that by dying, Richard would be reunited with her? And by giving him eternal life, he was condeming him to never be with her again? Seems like a pretty crappy thing for Jacob to do...in fact, seems like Jacob was a pretty crappy island protector in general, creating pretty much all the problems for himself.

I'd give the resolution of the island mystery a B+. As to the ridiculous sideways crapfest, I'd give that a D-. Yea, I'm bitter.

 

[The Josh]

I always thought it was pretty clear if smokey left it would bring upon the end of the world as we know it. You gotta use the inference skills you where taught in school folks. I guess I don't feel like I need the billboard with the pictures saying end of the world next smokey exit.

 

[keysta75]

What consequences? Sadly, we were never given any insight into what would happen if he left. On the one hand, it seems like he's just an evil dude that would hurt people so that's why he couldn't leave - on the other, seems like somehow it would hurt the island, although that seems pretty unlikely since Smokey himself didn't think he could destroy the island until he found out about Desmond.

And I agree that they did a poor job of making Smokey evil - at least in context with others, like Jacob. If you factor in the potential for Smokey to know what happens when you die (which makes sense now, since he is partly the light and has been closer to it than any other surviving being), then his killing of those that were useless to him makes sense - he was sending them into the light, rather than leave them trapped on Jacob's island.

Soooo...MiB for President. LOL JK

 

[lcummins]

I always thought it was pretty clear if smokey left it would bring upon the end of the world as we know it. You gotta use the inference skills you where taught in school folks. I guess I don't feel like I need the billboard with the pictures saying end of the world next smokey exit.

But what about before he became Smokey Josh? What it still be the end of the world???