LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!
- Thread starter Darklord Dave
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ProgMatinee
circlesendwheretheybegin
can someone tell me quick, so where were they. were they all dead? was it the bermuda triangle? is there 1 simple answer?
Karma
Jack's Smirking Revenge
Anyhoo. I thought the finale was smashingly good. Anyone agree? 
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Lonnie, it just seems that if there is a constant in the universe, it is that there is a ying to every yang.
tomandshell
Blue Flame of the West/Mod
So what actually happened when Jack (and Hurley) drank the water? I think that you could argue that nothing happened--or that they were fundamentally changed. (Or both.)
There is a pocket of dark matter/electromagnetic energy under the Island. Over thousands of years and throughout the history of mankind (look at all the skeletons down in the light cave), people have encountered it and have attributed a kind of meaning and/or spiritual significance to it. How does Jacob know what it is or was? We saw that he wasn't told much--he formed a worldview based on his own interpretation of a potentially flawed/skewed/limited understanding that was passed down to him by "Mother" and which he in turn modified and passed on to others with the best intentions.
The Island has meaning because meaning has been attributed to it by mortals in an attempt to explain the apparently inexplicable. The people who have chosen to be the protectors/guardians of this light source have come up with their own set of "rules" about how it should be handled, and how the people protecting it (or seeking to control/exploit it) should interact with each other. The rules are binding and have meaning when you personally believe them, and devote your life to them in an act of faith.
Are these rules binding on someone who rejects the framework of belief that support them? MIB was an "Island atheist" who believed that the light was meaningless, that absolutely nothing would happen if he left and that anyone who stood in his was was expendable--and he based his existence upon those assumptions. Within the context of the show, we will never know if he was right, but we can see where it got him.
How did Jacob know that the world would end if the light went out? Had the light gone out before, causing the world to end? He was not speaking from experience, but speaking out in faith based upon a worldview and spiritual/theological framework that had been imparted to him--and that he had chosen to live by. Like Jacob, MIB, Jack, Locke and the rest, we all come face to face with mysteries in life that cannot be explained. We create a framework that attempts to tie it all together in a meaningful way, and then create corresponding "rules" for ourselves and try to live by them. We create rituals that become meaningful in the moment that we choose to believe and give our lives over to that belief. Many choose to pass these ideas and actions on to the next generation.
One could argue that the Island featured a curious scientific anomaly, and everything else that sprang up around it followed the natural course of human curiosity, superstition, faith and/or willingness to devote your life to a set of rules and beliefs that cannot always be explained or proven. Jack chose to believe that there was a power and purpose behind the Island, and finally became a man of faith. Maybe drinking the water did nothing magical whatsoever--but as an act of faith and commitment, it changed Jack and in that moment he became "just like" Jacob. He was ready to devote himself to something that he did not fully understand--to a mystery that he was ready to embrace and a cause for which he was willing to sacrifice his life. He saw the light "through a glass, darkly" and for him, that was enough to live for. He didn't get all the answers, but took a step of faith. I think they did their best in the finale to show that his faith was ultimately rewarded.
There is a pocket of dark matter/electromagnetic energy under the Island. Over thousands of years and throughout the history of mankind (look at all the skeletons down in the light cave), people have encountered it and have attributed a kind of meaning and/or spiritual significance to it. How does Jacob know what it is or was? We saw that he wasn't told much--he formed a worldview based on his own interpretation of a potentially flawed/skewed/limited understanding that was passed down to him by "Mother" and which he in turn modified and passed on to others with the best intentions.
The Island has meaning because meaning has been attributed to it by mortals in an attempt to explain the apparently inexplicable. The people who have chosen to be the protectors/guardians of this light source have come up with their own set of "rules" about how it should be handled, and how the people protecting it (or seeking to control/exploit it) should interact with each other. The rules are binding and have meaning when you personally believe them, and devote your life to them in an act of faith.
Are these rules binding on someone who rejects the framework of belief that support them? MIB was an "Island atheist" who believed that the light was meaningless, that absolutely nothing would happen if he left and that anyone who stood in his was was expendable--and he based his existence upon those assumptions. Within the context of the show, we will never know if he was right, but we can see where it got him.
How did Jacob know that the world would end if the light went out? Had the light gone out before, causing the world to end? He was not speaking from experience, but speaking out in faith based upon a worldview and spiritual/theological framework that had been imparted to him--and that he had chosen to live by. Like Jacob, MIB, Jack, Locke and the rest, we all come face to face with mysteries in life that cannot be explained. We create a framework that attempts to tie it all together in a meaningful way, and then create corresponding "rules" for ourselves and try to live by them. We create rituals that become meaningful in the moment that we choose to believe and give our lives over to that belief. Many choose to pass these ideas and actions on to the next generation.
One could argue that the Island featured a curious scientific anomaly, and everything else that sprang up around it followed the natural course of human curiosity, superstition, faith and/or willingness to devote your life to a set of rules and beliefs that cannot always be explained or proven. Jack chose to believe that there was a power and purpose behind the Island, and finally became a man of faith. Maybe drinking the water did nothing magical whatsoever--but as an act of faith and commitment, it changed Jack and in that moment he became "just like" Jacob. He was ready to devote himself to something that he did not fully understand--to a mystery that he was ready to embrace and a cause for which he was willing to sacrifice his life. He saw the light "through a glass, darkly" and for him, that was enough to live for. He didn't get all the answers, but took a step of faith. I think they did their best in the finale to show that his faith was ultimately rewarded.
GrueSam
The Queen of Darkness
We will all receive these answers, eventually, in our own time.
IMO
Oh, and I'm not sure when I'll be in Austin- I think I'm flying in on Monday. I will let you guys know though, as soon as I do.
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Well that's religion for you.
1- No, until the very end
2- No, that's in the north Atlantic region...
3- Nope...
Thats true. I forgot about them. However, I would say during that time period they'd be lucky to tell anyone how to get back there.
I agree. Perfect coming to full circle. Wonderful device and my favorite in any medium be it Music or movies or books.
For some strange reason, Vincent coming to lay down with him just made me come unglued.
I agree. I thought it was perfect. I told my mom this morning that I loved that. The show started with Jack and ended with him.
I thought that was sweet. I had one of my cats laying with me when that part came out. I gave her a big hug and told the cat I love ya. I didn't cry during the show but damn near did several times.
I think I'm a bit emotionally drained because of life stuff is why.
This is why Tom has a god damned pHd in Lostology.
Don't blasphemy.
I liked that Hurley drank the water out of an old Oceanic water bottle.
ProgMatinee
circlesendwheretheybegin
haha thanks for the help. so they were all in semi conciousness like in Jacobs Ladder or what?
I watched the first 2 1/2 seasons, but there were too many loose ends, characters in and out of the show, I gave up.
if you had to sum up the series in:
1)plane crashed
2)weird things happened
3)weird things happened because _____
can you fill in blank for me?
I watched the first 2 1/2 seasons, but there were too many loose ends, characters in and out of the show, I gave up.
if you had to sum up the series in:
1)plane crashed
2)weird things happened
3)weird things happened because _____
can you fill in blank for me?
CAhobbit
Super Freak
Open for some interpretation IMO. My own thoughts are...
All the events that happened on the island did indeed occur (Jacob, MIB, hatch, deaths, plane crash, etc.). Some of the Oceanic 815, Miles and Richard had lives after leaving the island for a final time and eventually died. Hurley stayed on as the protector for as long as possible and gave that role to someone else and then died. Ben stayed on as the '2nd' and eventually died.
All our now dead 'Lostie' characters were in a limbo/in between/purgatory (whatever you want to call it) and had to come together to now 'move on' somewhere else (where ever that might be).
The show was always about the characters for me, so I did like the finale. I can totally see where other's would not be very happy.
Plane crashed on island with mysterious powers which is protected by mysterious dude and are attacked by black smoke monster.
Some survivors escape others travel around in time.
Escapees return and time travelers come back to the "present day".
Fight black smoke monster, kill him, and some die others escape the island and a two stayed behind to continue to watch the island.
Everyone eventually dies and find eachother in a sort of purgatory or in between world.
They move on together to the next stage of life.
Some survivors escape others travel around in time.
Escapees return and time travelers come back to the "present day".
Fight black smoke monster, kill him, and some die others escape the island and a two stayed behind to continue to watch the island.
Everyone eventually dies and find eachother in a sort of purgatory or in between world.
They move on together to the next stage of life.
tomandshell
Blue Flame of the West/Mod
3)weird things happened because weird things happen
I don't understand this "Athiests don't like the ending" thing.
I'm an athiest and I had no problem what so ever with the going off to heaven ending, if that is what it was.
I don't believe in God/Heaven or Devil/Hell at all, but I can totally accept these concepts in a well writen story. I'd have to stop watching other things like the first three Indiana Jones films and Constantine etc if I let things like that bother me.
Anyway. Loved the ending even if I still want answers to many questions.
I presume that Hurley could have lived for a couple of thousand years if he really was transfomed by drinking the water Jack gave him?
I'm an athiest and I had no problem what so ever with the going off to heaven ending, if that is what it was.
I don't believe in God/Heaven or Devil/Hell at all, but I can totally accept these concepts in a well writen story. I'd have to stop watching other things like the first three Indiana Jones films and Constantine etc if I let things like that bother me.
Anyway. Loved the ending even if I still want answers to many questions.
I presume that Hurley could have lived for a couple of thousand years if he really was transfomed by drinking the water Jack gave him?
ProgMatinee
circlesendwheretheybegin
so you never quite find out what the island is, how it brought them there, how dahrma knew about it etc?
the island is a character onto itself, no real closure for the island?
the island is a character onto itself, no real closure for the island?
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