LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[pixletwin]

Yeah way funny.

 

[Shropt]

By the end, P!tu was pushing a button every 108 minutes.

and see what happend after i stopped!! They all died!!! It was my fault!!!

It wouldn't be the first beloved thing that you've destroyed Pitu!!

 

[p!tu]

It wouldn't be the first beloved thing that you've destroyed Pitu!!

 

[Karma]

It wouldn't be the first beloved thing that you've destroyed Pitu!!

EGAD!!!

 

[The ill Jedi]

...Give me a rational explanation for smokey and the light, and I'll let everything else slide...

Smokey was CGI

The light was a flood light with a yellow filter.

NICE!

I think it's pretty clear that the glowing church scenes all took place inside the suitcase from Pulp Fiction.

Jules: Vincent! We happy?
Vincent: Yeah, we happy.

Look at the big brain on Brad . . . uh, I mean Tom.

That's 'Brett'...n00b.

 

[Darth Waller]

That's 'Brett'...n00b.

I'll give you that one, n00b. At least I have a valid reason thinking it was Brad.

Incorrectly regarded as goofs: In Brett's Apartment, when Jules is talking to Brett he appears to say "Look at the brain on Brad" instead of calling him Brett. However, he stretches out the name "Brett" (i.e. "check out the big brain on Breeeeeeeeeett") and so it sounds like he says "Brad", If you listen closely, you can hear the "T" sound at the end of the sentence, indicating that he said "Brett" and not "Brad".

I'll confirm it this weekend on my Pulp Fiction Blu-ray.

 

[barbelith]

Ok, if we accept the fact that the creators had the beginning and ending set from the start

I know for an absolute fact they didn't. David Fury for example has said on more than one occasion the writers for the first season literally intended the monster to be an actual dinosaur.

 

[pixletwin]

I think they may have had the final shot with Jack in mind though.

 

[barbelith]

I think they may have had the final shot with Jack in mind though.

Sure, but there are a million possible contexts for that. My point was that they had no idea the show would be "about" a pair of allegorical Good and Evil brothers battling over a cork in a magic pond, and comments from some of the early writers support this. Up until the middle of season five, Lost could have been "about" virtually anything, because the writers didn't know. So you get stuff like the early smoke monster, Walt, the babies, Jacob as a ghost, the 1970s, Widmore etc.

So I have no reason to doubt they knew the ending would be a mirror shot of the opening. I don't believe for a second they knew there would be Jacob and the MiB and a cork etc.

 

[p!tu]

The true ending to LOST

 

[Darth Snoopy]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[Kuzeh]

Oh, Man!!!
that's awesome!!!
!!

 

[pixletwin]

 

[YoNoSe]

I know for an absolute fact they didn't. David Fury for example has said on more than one occasion the writers for the first season literally intended the monster to be an actual dinosaur.

Damon Lindelof confirmed before the show even premiered that it was not a dinosaur.

The creators have always maintained that the mythology was hashed out between seasons 1 and 2. The "landmarks" of the mythology were planned but the incidental drama was all written as they went along because they did not know how long the show would last and to allow for creative license and real life compromises.

While not everything is explained, I don't see a thing that refutes the idea that they knew about the good vs. evil finish, the cork, etc.

 

[FlyAndFight]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing... just asking questions that no one can ever give me straight answers to...

...So we can't have peace, happiness and contentment without knowing war, misery and hunger? And we wouldn't know health without disease? Or would we just not know we have those things without the others?

You bring up some very powerful questions, Lonnie. Specifically, "Why pain?" I have to admit that I cannot always understand the suffering of others, but I do grow in awareness of the purpose of my own suffering and I believe that God allows suffering to dwell within those strong enough to bear it, if they only seek Him as their strength. It was through His own suffering that the world has come to know Him.

Whether they recognize it or not, most people who have suffered greatly have a much deeper understanding of their own spirituality; whether they believe in Christ or not, they realize the importance of whether or not He exists, and for them the question is always "In light of this pain, how can a loving God exist?" and never "In light of last Tuesday's PBS special, how can a living God exist?"

It brings to mind the following quote from C. S. Lewis:

"But pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pain: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world." -C. S. Lewis, "The Problem of Pain"

Amy Carmichael (1867–1951) was a missionary to India who suffered enormously in her life. As she reflected on her experiences, she wrote:

"What if every stroke of pain, or hour of weariness or loneliness, or any other trial of flesh or spirit, could carry us a pulse beat nearer some other life, some life for which the ministry of prayer is needed. Would it not be worthwhile to suffer? Ten thousand times yes. And surely it must be so, for the further we are drawn into the fellowship of Calvary with our dear Lord, the [more tender] we are toward others. God never wastes His children's pain."

May you continue looking for your answers, Lonnie, with an open mind, heart and spirit. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened...

 

[YoNoSe]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but an ABC rep has stated that the footage of the Oceanic wreckage over the end credits was a network decision. They felt it would soften the transition to the news.

 

[Maglor]

The true ending to LOST

That made my day!

 

[barbelith]

Damon Lindelof confirmed before the show even premiered that it was not a dinosaur.

Lindelof claimed it was not a dinosaur. But then again he also claimed the show wasn't going to be about Purgatory, and we all know how that turned out. The fact of the matter is that people on the writing staff have point blank said the monster was intended to be a dinosaur during the first season, David Fury being one of them. One way or another, it doesn't really suggest the writers knew what was going on.

The creators have always maintained that the mythology was hashed out between seasons 1 and 2.

And this is quite simply not true, or at least, appears highly likely to be untrue. Now to be fair, I don't really pay attention to Lost interviews and such so I don't know how much is on record, or when. But I do know direct from Drew Goddard (via Cabin in the Woods) that nothing had been nailed down as early as the third season. And it's obvious when you actually watch the show, because so much of the first half of the series is completely irrelevant. Look at the behavior of the smoke monster in the early seasons - it's completely at odds with the MiB version. This is the case even as recently as season five!

Remember the numbers?
Remember when Walt was a big deal?
Remember the tail section?
Remember when we spent a season worrying about babies?
Remember when the characters left the island?
Remember the statue and ruins?
Remember the 1970s?
Remember Charles Widmore?

None of these things wound up being relevant to the series in any meaningful way, and the disproportionate amount of time spent on them pretty clearly signals the writers didn't know what was happening. Jacob is in precisely the same number of episodes as Arzt FFS. Widmore was Evil! until a conveniently offscreen moment just before the final episode. WTF?

The "landmarks" of the mythology were planned but the incidental drama was all written as they went along because they did not know how long the show would last and to allow for creative license and real life compromises.

I can see why they would claim this, but if you look at a show that's actually been planned out (hello Supernatural), the difference is night and day. Each season builds on the one before, and none of them can be removed without the puzzle collapsing. Lost could have followed the pilot with the first real appearance of Jacob and virtually nothing would have been different. Seriously, make a checklist about the "big" stuff over the years and see of little of it made a blind bit of difference to the Two Dudes and a Cork scenario. There's no "mythology" reason for Dharma, or for the Jacob's cabin stuff, or the baby issues, or Walt, or the numbers, or the tail section, or any of the smoke monster's activities in the first half of the series, or the 1970s storyline, or the flash forwards, or the existence of Charles Widmore etc.

Meanwhile, we get no answers to the stuff that is pertinent to the mythology - no explanation for the island, or the wheel, or Jacob/MiB and their mother, or the smoke transformation, or the eventual return to humanity, or the lighthouse etc.

While not everything is explained, I don't see a thing that refutes the idea that they knew about the good vs. evil finish, the cork, etc.

How about the fact that they're literally irrelevant to the story for five entire seasons?

 

[YoNoSe]

Most of the things your citing as important unsolved mysteries are addressed sufficiently to my taste or can be extrapolated. I'm not going down the checklist but Walt being abducted does not have to relate to Jacob in any way, for example.

I can't dispute what Drew Goddard may have said, obviously, but why should I believe David Fury over a direct declaration from Lindelof well before the show premiered?

Regardless, I'm sure you can go on and on about how sloppy the show is and how we should all be educated with Mamet if we're stupid enough to think LOST had good character development. I've no interest in that conversation. just thought I'd address your statment of "absolute fact."

 

[dr_teng]

Remember when Walt was a big deal?
Remember the tail section?

(cut for length, I'll let someone else answer the other ones if they want)

None of these things wound up being relevant to the series in any meaningful way, and the disproportionate amount of time spent on them pretty clearly signals the writers

Walt was physically growing too fast for the show so they had to write him out. The guy that played Eko was originally slated for 4 seasons but wanted off the show. If I recall correct, Michelle Rodriguez and the actress who played Libby both had DUIs and I'm not surprised they were written out of the show either.

There are reasons, sometimes outside the writer's control, where they have to change the story and inconsistencies can pop up.