Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

WHen do you think a relase date will be, Deff a summer blockbuster. Mabey summer of 2013? because Summer of 2011 is GL and i am gonna assume summer of 2012 will be bats 3.

Honestly, I think they'll shoot for Summer of 2012. The Avengers is 2012, Spider-Man 4 is projected for 2012, Star Trek 2 is being projected for 2012, Cloverfield 2 is being rumored for 2012, there are even rumors that Iron Man 3 is being projected for 2012 to help Downey and Favreau finish their contracts and keep the films fresh. That is a lot of high ticket films coming out in the summer and WB will want a chunk of it. A great way for them to neutralize Marvel films as well as from a business standpoint get some of the Summer cash will be for them to tag team Superman AND Batman in 2012 and have one hit in May or June and the other in June or July.

Me too, but if Warner bros wants the film to be more of a reboot.......Routh won't be Superman.

Warner Bros Pictures Group president Jeff Robinov's every quote even into December of last year has been reboot, reboot, reboot. He has been playing it safe saying that he isn't sure if they'll include Singer or Routh but like I said before I think that is politics more than anything else. Never say never but I'll say its slim that Routh will return.

 

[Kuzeh]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

It sucks because I thought Routh did an excellent job...

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

I blame Singer. He directred and took part in nothing more than a love letter to Donner from rehashing the original plotline basically to giving the film the exact same feel. He had the opportunity to pay homage and take it into a new direction and I thought Routh did fantastic as well but Singer was so surrounded by "yes men" after his hits with the X-Men that no one slapped him in the back of the head to put him straight.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

Warner Bros Pictures Group president Jeff Robinov's every quote even into December of last year has been reboot, reboot, reboot. He has been playing it safe saying that he isn't sure if they'll include Singer or Routh but like I said before I think that is politics more than anything else. Never say never but I'll say its slim that Routh will return.

Singer would never work for another auteur like Nolan anyway. The director will be someone new with Nolan guiding, maybe his brother or Koepp even.

I think Nolan is a smart enough filmmaker that he will realize that the dark and gritty doesn't work for the character. That may be why the studio hired him - they want him to deliver something exactly like Batman. But I doubt he'd get involved if he was just going to repeat himself.

Inception looks like it has a lot of fantastic elements to it, although still dark.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

I blame Singer. He directred and took part in nothing more than a love letter to Donner from rehashing the original plotline basically to giving the film the exact same feel. He had the opportunity to pay homage and take it into a new direction and I thought Routh did fantastic as well but Singer was so surrounded by "yes men" after his hits with the X-Men that no one slapped him in the back of the head to put him straight.

I don't think it was the ties to Donner that messed up Superman Returns. Was the superkid part of the Donner plotline? Did anything relating to Superman II determine that the most exciting action sequence (the plane) happen in the middle of the movie? Did sticking to the Donner continuim and feel mean they couldn't bring in a menacing physical bad guy? Personally I think the ties to Superman II, particularly the recut SII, is SR's only redeeming aspect.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

What would be great is if he gave the villains a really dark slant. Smallville has been doing that to a degree and its been working with the juxaposition of Superman's light nature and heroic stature. Metallo, Toy Man, Parasite, even Bizarro can be given amazingly dark natures and slants that would work against Big Blue's actions and behavior on screen.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

Was the superkid part of the Donner plotline?

Yes actually according to Singer. He said at Comic-Con it was the scenes in Superman II where Lois and Clark consumate their relationship that lead directly to the idea of the Superkid storyline as a continuation of it, that it was a natural progression.

Did anything relating to Superman II determine that the most exciting action sequence (the plane) happen in the middle of the movie?

Indirectly yes. Again the superkid plot line and having him leaves Lois with child, Singer said for him to really return there had to be a huge event that Lois herself couldn't avoid and have to reconnect with him. That turned out ot be the plane crash.

Did sticking to the Donner continuim and feel mean they couldn't bring in a menacing physical bad guy? Personally I think the ties to Superman II, particularly the recut SII, is SR's only redeeming aspect.

Again according to the creators of Superman Returns yes. They felt with Superman being absent for so long who better than Lex Luthor to welcome him back into the world. Ties to Superman II were not the downfall of Superman Returns but Singer's desire to make it a serious Superman 3 instead of just a continuation is what killed it. So again like I said in my previous post, I blame Singer.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

Nah...i'll disagree. They didn't have to go make a leap from Superman having sex with Lois once to pregnancy!

I agree 100% to blame Singer for the faults of the film, but it has nothing to do with sticking to Donner's themes. Thats like blaming the father for the sins of the son.

Lex Luthor was an obvious and necessary bad guy for the film...but that didn't mean they couldn't have tied in a major physical threat. In Superman II we had Luthor and the Kryptonians. Why couldn't we have had Luthor and Metallo or Luthor and Bizarro or Luthor and Doomsday?

Regarding the plane incident. I'm not arguing that that scene wasn't necessary, I'm arguing why was that the most thrilling scene in the movie, right in the middle? Why wasn't there a climax worth caring about at the end? And if we needed a scene in the middle of the film to put Lois in peril to make them reconnect, why did the end sequence need to again be about Lois in peril? These are faults of Singer's film that have nothing to do with the fact they tied in Superman II.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

You are misreading my posts then. I never EVER said any of it was Donner fault. I always maintained it was Singer's fault, that his goal to be Donner and continue his story lead to his downfall.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

You are misreading my posts then. I never EVER said any of it was Donner fault. I always maintained it was Singer's fault, that his goal to be Donner and continue his story lead to his downfall.

maybe I'm saying the same thing, i don't know, but I don't think they needed to have super kid or not have good action sequences to "continue the story".

So its not the intention of "continuing the story" that did the film in, it was the choices they made on how to "continue the story".

The ties to Superman II in regards to the theming, from the title sequence to the music to the beginning and even finding a Reeves look a like were probably the biggest plus factors for me.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

I have to agree with Mike on this one. WB's decision to go with Singer's Superman 3 rather than a fresh take on the franchise was the downfall of the film more than the superkid plot line. As I said when the film came out - Superman: the Movie was great for its time, but the character and the audience have grown far past that and the reboot should deal more with modern themes and characters arcs.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

I think isolationalism and social conformity and acceptance of one's responsibility at the expense of belonging are overall themes of SII and SR and I think those will always be relevant to Superman just as they are with Smallville and probably just as they would be in a relaunch.

I guarantee if Nolan goes with a clean slate the same issue will pop up again, Clark wants to be normal, he doesn't want the responsibility, he feels alone in the world, yada yada, we get it. Why rehash that all over again from the beginning, wasting the better part of an hour or half the movie? Any Superman fan should have had their fill of all that over the last 8 years of Smallville.

Lets cut straight to the robot ass kicking and saving the day stuff!

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

Read Superman: Birthright, say what you will about Waid's writing (a lot of people hate him) but I thought as a Superman origins tale it worked fantastically and could be easily translated on screen. having Lex be the mastermind behind the mock Kryptonian invasion in order to turn the world against Superman was great especially because he although involved wasn't fighting partner and there was a lot of possible action sequences.

It isn't that Superman doesn't want the responsibility, that is Smallville's thing its that he is the orphan child longing for a home. All he wants to be is Clark Kent, he is dying to be Clark Kent even though he cannot escape his life as Kal-El, even the sun powers him which he cannot control. He takes on the role of savior because he loves the planet so much and feels its his chance and moment to be part of the humanity that he loves so much.

What I love about Birthright is that Clark after finishing up college heads over to Africa as a freelance reporter and witnesses humanity being horrible to each other through tribal wars. Its here that he decides to be a savior and upon heading home for Smallville he decides to create a secret identity for Clark instead of Superman. He learns to slouch and act nervous and clumsy, to distance his civilian identity from tall, self-assertive Superman.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

By the way I wonder how much DC will try to insert the latest Superman: Secret Origin which is supposed to be the definitive origin story replacing both Bryne's Man of Steel and Waid's Birthright and is ironically written by Johns. He definitely tries to mix both the films, Smallville and the previous origins into one. Here is a recap of the changes in case anyone is interested.

-Lana Lang is aware about Clark having special abilities almost as soon as they begin developing in his pre-teen years. She becomes -Clark's only confidant outside his parents and the Legion of Super-Heroes, but is unaware he is an alien up until their teenage years (as with the Man of Steel mini-series).

-In addition to Clark, the Kents themselves are able to access the holographic records contained in the rocket and understand them to learn about Clark's original planet.

-Kryptonian materials' extreme durability in a yellow sun environment is restored.

-Clark's costume is based on his mother's observations of typical Kryptonian children's clothing in holographic recordings contained in Jor-El's rocket and is motivated by Martha's desire that Clark should embrace his original planet's heritage as well as his adopted one. It is again fashioned by Martha Kent from blankets in the rocket, including the chest symbol which she observed is the crest of the House of El. Martha explain the suit is intended to be used by Clark when he engages his powers without damaging his regular clothes.
Clark starts wearing glasses, made from round pieces of Kryptonian transparent material, soon after his heat vision develops to contain unwanted firings caused by sexual arousal.

-Clark's flying ability develops earlier in his life when he saves Lana from a tornado, although he initially has difficulty controlling it.

-Martha Kent is revealed to have some German lineage.
As previously revealed in the "Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes" storyarc in Action Comics, Clark took on the identity of Superboy as a teenager, but only in the future as a member of the Legion.

-The recordings in the rocket establish Clark's future Kryptonian enemies from the beginning of his history: Brainiac; the Phantom Zone prisoners (General Zod, Ursa and Non); and Doomsday.

-Chloe Sullivan is shown as a Smallville resident, as evident of the "Chloe S." written on Pete's cast.

-The Legion of Super-Heroes now is inspired by the genuine Superman, although they operate without sanction by their times' authorities.

-Krypto is again Clark's pet in his childhood years on Earth.

-In a partial return to the John Byrne revision of the character, Clark Kent is once again described, while in Metropolis, as a slouching milquetoast, shy, and hopelessly unsophisticated. However, Lois Lane and Perry White are instantly able to get past his ruse and see him as a competent individual, leaving only Cat Grant and Steve Lombard falling for it.

-While he is shown to have spent some of his formative years in Smallville, Lex Luthor, as a Metropolis denizen, is already an influential political and economical figure, having put the Daily Planet on the brink of bankruptcy to enforce his public image.
The Daily Planet, far from being one of the top newspapers, is understaffed and on the brink of constant bankruptcy, accepting Clark Kent with no questions because the paper is now on its last legs.

-Superman's first public debut now mirrors the famous helicopter crash scene in the first Superman film starring Christopher Reeve, only this time it occurs on Lex Luthor's property.

-The first major reaction by the Metropolis public with Superman's first appearances is fearful, a sentiment encouraged by Lex Luthor's personal slandering and the hostile coverage by the media he owns.
In this version, Jimmy Olsen, who was about to quit and return to his unsupportive parents, is the first one to benefit professionally with Superman's debut, getting the first upfront news opportunity with the superhero with an exclusive photo. That photo is printed on the Daily Planet front page and Lane decides that the boy will accompany her on assignments.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

So. . .does this mean we're gonna need another "Crisis" cross-over event-type thing to "clear things up" in a couple years? Is this Superman now going to be a completely different Superman from another reality in relation to the one in the late 80s, who will be completely different from the one from the early 2000s, etc.?

BTW, Krypto is the last surviving dog of Krypton. He was sent to earth in a test rocket. If this is not part of the "new" Superman back-story, then I'll have nothing to do with it.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

Well Bryne's Man of Steel was the origin for the modern age which eliminated all the Silver Age. Then Birthright came in and wiped that out. Now John's Secret Origins is after the big Crisis event (Infinite Crisis) so this is supposed to be the end all origin for Superman of New Earth (our reality). I haven't read it all, just here and there but Krypto has powers, not sure how.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

And I'm sure it will be the "definitive" Superman origin. At least for a couple years, until the next "definitive" origin story comes along following the next Zero Hour or whatever.

Personally, I like how Marvel has dealt with the retcon stuff a bit better. There has been plenty of it, but at least they don't create alternate realities for every other instance of character X having a new personality trait or historical experience.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

That I can't argue with.

 

[KneelBeforrSmallville]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

Geoff Johns Secret Origins is awesome

 

[OSCORP]

Re: The Man of Steel/Nolan's Superman

You guys are going way off here lol. This is GOOD news. Just two days ago this was in such limbo and nobody had much hope. No matter what happens this is GOOD news.

I know it's fun to speculate and all, but right now, i think we should be more appreciative that SOMETHING is happening. And worry about the what if's a little later on. (And Nolan is a respected name)

FINALLY Supes may get the love he deserves.

(enjoy this news Superman fans)