Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

[Niltusk]

It still doesn't change the fact that the whole point to Superman is that he is supposed to be a symbol for light and hope. This movie had niether. Do you really think people will be inspired and hopeful after what happened in Metropolis? I guarantee you that no Daily Planet headlines the next day are going to read "SUPERMAN SAVES CITY". Instead the country will be in a severe state of mourning as they constantly worry about where Superman will choose to have his next grudge match.

You could say this on varying scales about any Super hero movie and in fact the entire mythos/genre.

If you're really that much of a negative nancy, why bother going to Superhero movies? Or does this attitude only flare when you don't like the movie?

I mean talk about a glass half empty attitude, jesus people, its a movie, take your freaking meds.

 

[IrishJedi]

That about sums it up.

The convoluted Codex origin and Supes' triggering of the Fortress ship make him and Jor El just as responsible for the carnage as anyone else. Clark's ignorance makes him just as culpable as the heroes in any EVIL DEAD or MUMMY movie who accidentally unearth a terrible evil.

Jor El is to blame for sending off Kal El to Earth, with Zod in the room. Not like he was safely locked away in the Phantom Zone at that point. As far as Russell knew, Zod could easily keep his word and go after baby Kal. If Jor El had never sent Kal with the Codex to Earth in the first place, the planet wouldn't NEED saving!

You must really hate comic books.

 

[EVILFACE]

Bane killed a few fools.

Didn't Batman kill the bomb truck driver causing Talia to have to take over driving thus leading to her Oscar winning death performance?

 

[jye4ever]

That about sums it up.

The convoluted Codex origin and Supes' triggering of the Fortress ship make him and Jor El just as responsible for the carnage as anyone else. Clark's ignorance makes him just as culpable as the heroes in any EVIL DEAD or MUMMY movie who accidentally unearth a terrible evil.

Jor El is to blame for sending off Kal El to Earth, with Zod in the room. Not like he was safely locked away in the Phantom Zone at that point. As far as Russell knew, Zod could easily keep his word and go after baby Kal. If Jor El had never sent Kal with the Codex to Earth in the first place, the planet wouldn't NEED saving!

Can you really blame Jor-el for resorting to desperate measures because he knew that his planet was about to explode in a few days, totally wiping out his kind.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

You must really hate comic books.

I love 'em. I just re-read SECRET ORIGIN and BIRTHRIGHT and none of the violence or menace are directly tied into Clark or Jor-El's actions or ignorance.

What comics are you reading?

 

[ShadowX81]

You could say this on varying scales about any Super hero movie and in fact the entire mythos/genre.

If you're really that much of a negative nancy, why bother going to Superhero movies? Or does this attitude only flare when you don't like the movie?

I mean talk about a glass half empty attitude, jesus people, its a movie, take your freaking meds.

The attitude flares up when the hero is directly responsible for the death of more humans than some famous historical genocides.

It completly contradicts the point of the character if the world is left constantly frightened by his presence.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Can you really blame Jor-el for resorting to doing desperate things because he knew that his planet was about to explode in a few days, totally wiping out his kind.

In other incarnations, no. But the whole Codex subplot raises more questions than it answers. Why DIDN'T Jor go along with Zod's vision for genetic purity? Wouldn't a few chosen survivors be better than NONE if the planet explodes?

If he knew the **** was gonna hit the fan and stole the Codex anyway, why NOT escape with Kal and Lara? This question is directly asked in the film, but glossed over. What if Jor El wasn't killed and the Council gave a **** about his theft? Wouldn't he be expected to join Zod in the Phantom Zone?

Sometimes, simplicity in an origin story is better.

 

[IrishJedi]

I love 'em. I just re-read SECRET ORIGIN and BIRTHRIGHT and none of the violence or menace are directly tied into Clark or Jor-El's actions or ignorance.

What comics are you reading?

Right now? The Phantom Stranger, Saga, Batman, Batman Inc., Earth-2, The Wake, Fashion Beast, and a few others that aren't immediately springing to mind.

 

[Niltusk]

The attitude flares up when the hero is directly responsible for the death of more humans than some famous historical genocides.

It completly contradicts the point of the character if the world is left constantly frightened by his presence.

Again, your closing words are applicable to any costumed heroes and has been addressed by some writers in the past as to whether the hero or the villains are the chickens or the eggs. If you only apply this to movies you don't enjoy, more power to you, but thats your hangup and ultimately its just silly.

Doesn't make the movie any less good it just makes your opinion even less valid in regard to this movie.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

It still doesn't change the fact that the whole point to Superman is that he is supposed to be a symbol for light and hope. This movie had niether. Do you really think people will be inspired and hopeful after what happened in Metropolis? I guarantee you that no Daily Planet headlines the next day are going to read "SUPERMAN SAVES CITY". Instead the country will be in a severe state of mourning as they constantly worry about where Superman will choose to have his next grudge match.

Would people blame Superman for not saving people or the Kryptonians for actually causing their deaths?

That'd be like blaming the bodyguards for the assassination of JFK instead of the killer

Superman did stop them from killing Humanity does that count for nothing?

The attitude flares up when the hero is directly responsible for the death of more humans than some famous historical genocides..

The only direct action he took was trying to save and preserve humanity.

The Zod squad were the perpetrators, you're seriously reaching to paint Supes as a villain instead of Zod

 

[Khev]

I love 'em. I just re-read BETTY & VERONICA SUMMER FUN and FRANKIE PICKLE AND THE CLOSET OF DOOM and none of the violence or menace are directly tied into Betty or Frankie's actions or ignorance.

What comics are you reading?

Fixed.

 

[Niltusk]

Fixed.

I think that is a movie Mirakle would be raving over.

 

[ShadowX81]

Again, your closing words are applicable to any costumed heroes and has been addressed by some writers in the past as to whether the hero or the villains are the chickens or the eggs. If you only apply this to movies you don't enjoy, more power to you, but thats your hangup and ultimately its just silly.

Doesn't make the movie any less good it just makes your opinion even less valid in regard to this movie.

The difference here that you keep ignoring is that in the past all of these heroes have not created such a massive destruction bordering on apocalyptic. The city of Metropolis is essentially gone. Estimates place the death toll at 200,000, the estimated damage at $285 billion, and damage to the economy at 2 trillion. This goes way beyond the usual issues of escalation brought up in comics.

Would people blame Superman for not saving people or the Kryptonians for actually causing their deaths?

Superman did stop them from killing Humanity does that count for nothing?

Not when the entire point of the character is to inspire hope in humanity. Not a single person in the world is going to feel inspired and hopeful when one of america's largest cities is leveled, and the threat that it will probably happen again at any time constantly hangs over thier heads.

 

[Khev]

Estimates place the death toll at 200,000

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Batman = Quitter
Superman = Killer

So what will Wonder Woman have now? A jet that glows in the dark?

I'm going with ho bag

 

[Niltusk]

The difference here that you keep ignoring is that in the past all of these heroes have not created such a massive destruction bordering on apocalyptic. The city of Metropolis is essentially gone. Estimates place the death toll at 200,000, the estimated damage at $285 billion, and damage to the economy at 2 trillion. This goes way beyond the usual issues of escalation brought up in comics.

He didn't cause this. Even looking at the simple way in which your perception works it would be Jor Els fault.

God, put a tampon in it, dude. Its a movie. Just assume he flew backwards off camera and thats why the Daily Planet was ok.

 

[ShadowX81]

God, put a tampon in it, dude

Jesus, we are just discussing a freaking movie. No reason to be a complete **** and start with personal insults.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

The difference here that you keep ignoring is that in the past all of these heroes have not created such a massive destruction bordering on apocalyptic. The city of Metropolis is essentially gone. Estimates place the death toll at 200,000, the estimated damage at $285 billion, and damage to the economy at 2 trillion. This goes way beyond the usual issues of escalation brought up in comics.

He can't ignore what doesn't exist.

Superman didn't create the destruction, Zod did.

If Zod had stayed in the Phantom Zone none of this would've happened, or if Jor El hadn't sent Kal to our planet it wouldn't have happened.

None of this is Supermans doing. He defended Earth, if he hadn't then there'd be no Earth, but he did and lives were lost in the process.

People died in WW2 but it was a neccessary loss to prevent Fascism from sweeping the globe. Same thing here, though with greater stakes

 

[Niltusk]

Jesus, we are just discussing a freaking movie. No reason to be a complete ****.

You're crying about a section of a city that got leveled in a movie and saying this doesn't happen in comics?

Sounds like you need a tampon.

 

[ShadowX81]

None of this is Supermans doing. He defended Earth, if he hadn't then there'd be no Earth, but he did and lives were lost in the process.

People died in WW2 but it was a neccessary loss to prevent Fascism from sweeping the globe. Same thing here, though with greater stakes

But it is still a massive disaster, and all the people of earth are left with is the knowledge that it will probably happen again the next time a supervillian appears.

Its not so much that it is his fault but rather the fact that to stay true to what the character is supposed to represent, he cannot let his battles result in the largest loss of life in American history.

No one in that world is going to associate Superman with anything but fear and death. WW2 may have been necessary, but no one was happy to see it happen.

You're crying about a section of a city that got leveled in a movie and saying this doesn't happen in comics?

Yea, because that is what happened in the movie. You know, what we are supposed to be discussing in this thread.

You just took it to a place of personal insults.

Seriously, what the hell is your problem?