Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

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I am curious to see how batman can be inserted in MOS2.

I'm really not curious at all. :(

One thing that troubles me about this is that we now have a Batman who is 100% rooted in the real world. Is there room in the Nolan Batman's world for troublesome aliens and other such concepts? I don't know, and I don't want Superman held back because of it.

We ain't never going to see Brainiac like this..... it'll be all about Lex Luthor, and maybe the Joker. Because they can exist in the real world, and we have to keep things grounded because BATMAN.

More of these : :(
 
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That's actually how I expect it to be, humor aside

If you were Superman, would you take any guff off of some mere human trying to push you around? I have a hard time thinking he would. I don't see him actually HURTING Batman of course, but bats might get put in his place ASAP.

Why would a guy from Krypton put up with being pushed around? It would be like a human adult tolerating bossiness from a four-year-old. Yeah.... not happening.
 
One thing that troubles me about this is that we now have a Batman who is 100% rooted in the real world. Is there room in the Nolan Batman's world for troublesome aliens and other such concepts? I don't know, and I don't want Superman held back because of it.

Thankfully, Nolan's Batman does not exist in the MOS universe.

If you were Superman, would you take any guff off of some mere human trying to push you around? I have a hard time thinking he would. I don't see him actually HURTING Batman of course, but bats might get put in his place ASAP.

Why would a guy from Krypton put up with being pushed around? It would be like a human adult tolerating bossiness from a four-year-old. Yeah.... not happening.

Batman is no ordinary human, and should never be treated as such by the story. The primary characteristics of Batman's character are every bit as impossible as Superman's. In every way that Superman is strong, Batman is smart, cunning, and impossibly prepared. If Batman and Superman are not equals, the story does not work.
 
Maybe they could insert the fact that Batman has already invented some kind of "nano-tech" suit (yes, that Deus Ex Machina), which allows him to not be immediately crushed by Superman.
 
Thankfully, Nolan's Batman does not exist in the MOS universe.

He will though, or as closely as possible. Because the Nolan Batman is the most recent incarnation, and anything less will be seen as falling back down into the Schumacher mindset. People are very zero-sum about this sort of thing....

Batman is no ordinary human, and should never be treated as such by the story. The primary characteristics of Batman's character are every bit as impossible as Superman's. In every way that Superman is strong, Batman is smart, cunning, and impossibly prepared. If Batman and Superman are not equals, the story does not work.

Perhaps he isn't an "ordinary human," but as a non-paranormal protagonist it is ridiculous to imagine a plausible scenario where he has the wherewithal to tell Superman to Get Out Of My Territory, Junior. Pffft, be serious. [speaking in general, here] Physically Superman out-powers him many times over and I know people don't want to admit that to themselves - or in public either, but thinking otherwise is a logical fallacy.
 
I was going to say, Superman wouldn't harm Batman...but with this Superman, I don't know. He could just break his face because he feels like it.
 
He will though, or as closely as possible. Because the Nolan Batman is the most recent incarnation, and anything less will be seen as falling back down into the Schumacher mindset. People are very zero-sum about this sort of thing....

NO. We need the comics Batman. Not Nolan's bastardization. Not a campy Adam West/Joel Schumacher version. We need Grant Morrison's Batman. He balances the inherent ridiculousness and seriousness of the character perfectly.

Perhaps he isn't an "ordinary human," but as a non-paranormal protagonist it is ridiculous to imagine a plausible scenario where he has the wherewithal to tell Superman to Get Out Of My Territory, Junior. Pffft, be serious. [speaking in general, here] Physically Superman out-powers him many times over and I know people don't want to admit that to themselves - or in public either, but thinking otherwise is a logical fallacy.

Maybe Superman overpowers him on a physical level, but he could never touch him mentally. Batman should represent a legitimate threat to Superman, in the case that such a threat is ever needed. Plus, if you read Morrison's comics, he often alludes to the idea, that maybe there is something paranormal about Batman. I agree with that. It doesn't have to be something that is ever directly addressed, or even acknowledged, but the whole reason Batman works, in a universe populated by superhumans, is because he's superhuman himself. Maybe the things he does are not impossible, but they are extremely improbable. Therefore, in order to match up with these other gods and demigods, the absolute improbability of Batman has been scaled to match the impossible aspects of the other heroes. If you lose that, you have Nolan's Batman - and quite frankly, a "realistic" Batman is not something that I ever asked for, and is not something that I ever want to see it again. Some of us have seized upon this ridiculous notion that things must be "realistic" in order for them to be taken seriously. I couldn't disagree more. Was 300 "realistic?" Was Sin City "realistic?" NO. Were they grimy, and dark, and downright disturbing at times? Absolutely. That's how I want my Batman to be.

I was going to say, Superman wouldn't harm Batman...but with this Superman, I don't know. He could just break his face because he feels like it.

I don't know. Sure, he killed Zod, but I feel that it is going to profoundly affect him and inform who he is going forward. I don't think this Supeman is really going to be that much different from the Blue Boy Scout that most people are used to. And if not, he will seem that way when sharing the screen with Batman. It doesn't make sense for both heroes to be dark and brooding, because then, one of them would be redundant. Also, we all know that Batman has the 'dark and brooding superhero' market cornered. Superman is just going to have to realize his place, and be the light-hearted superhero that he always has been.:lecture
 
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Maybe Superman overpowers him on a physical level, but he could never touch him mentally.

You can take a non-disabled Stephen Hawking and match him up against your typical street thug, and Hawking's brain would not matter for one instant in that scenario: he's going to get his @ss kicked but good. Brain matters not where brawn is concerned.

Your other thoughts lead me back to my original premise re this whole batman/superman thing: these people should not have to be "threats" to each other, because they should be working on the same team.

This is why an ensemble cast is best for this type of scenario. There's less pressure on everyone.

Superman is just going to have to realize his place, and be the light-hearted superhero that he always has been.

Ummm...... hm. This Superman broke his enemy's neck, and unlike the Reeve version, he did not even crack a smile as he consigned his enemy to Oblivion. I hope DC/WB have the smarts to realize that a physical confrontation is not the way to go, because there is no credible way Bats is going to come out on top in that scenario.

This Superman never struck me as "dark and brooding." But he does not have to be; he is basically uncontrollable and good luck, Bats. Keep it civil would be my best advice to him. ;)
 
You can take a non-disabled Stephen Hawking and match him up against your typical street thug, and Hawking's brain would not matter for one instant in that scenario: he's going to get his @ss kicked but good. Brain matters not where brawn is concerned.


Don't think Steven Hawking. Think Sherlock Holmes. Also, don't think reality. Think comic books.

Your other thoughts lead me back to my original premise re this whole batman/superman thing: these people should not have to be "threats" to each other, because they should be working on the same team.

If this Batman can't give Superman a run for his money, there's no point in including him in this movie universe. Also, the whole 'threats' idea is not without precedence. In the comics, Batman is very paranoid, and with good reason. There's a long history of members of the League acting as checks and balances for each other's immense power, and the idea of what would happen if that power is abused has been explored on many occasions.

This is why an ensemble cast is best for this type of scenario. There's less pressure on everyone.

Ensemble cast is good, but this DC universe is already set up to be less light-hearted than Marvel's. I like the idea of the League members not entirely trusting each other, at least at first, and a sense of foreboding about what could go wrong if one of their own were to go rogue. An ensemble cast can actually be made much better if there's some tension involved.



Ummm...... hm. This Superman broke his enemy's neck, and unlike the Reeve version, he did not even crack a smile as he consigned his enemy to Oblivion. I hope DC/WB have the smarts to realize that a physical confrontation is not the way to go, because there is no credible way Bats is going to come out on top in that scenario.

You may be on to something there. Personally, I would hope that an actual physical confrontation between the two, if it were to ever happen, would be much later on, after the two are established characters. However, I wouldn't mind a bit of a rivalry, a la the Animated Series' World's Finest episode.* But that begs the question, how does Bruce Wayne steal Lois Lane when she already knows Clark is Superman? Maybe, some events will transpire that cause Kal to be a bit of a jerk to her...


*Not that this has to happen, but who doesn't want to see Batman steal Superman's girlfriend?
 
These people should be facing cosmic-level threats, not stealing each other's girlfriends!! Seriously! I don't want to see that! I can see that sort of thing on tv every night, were I so inclined.

BRAINIAC HAS INVADED OH **** WHAT NOW! Fire up the Bat-signal! Where is the Fortress of Solitude hotline?!! Not "Crap Batman stole the affections of Lois, what do I do now?"
 
These people should be facing cosmic-level threats, not stealing each other's girlfriends!! Seriously! I don't want to see that! I can see that sort of thing on tv every night, were I so inclined.

BRAINIAC HAS INVADED OH **** WHAT NOW! Fire up the Bat-signal! Where is the Fortress of Solitude hotline?!! Not "Crap Batman stole the affections of Lois, what do I do now?"


So, in the face of Brainiac-level threats, you want a Batman who wouldn't represent a threat to Superman? He may as well stay home, if that's the case.
 
Stealing his girlfriend classes him as a threat?! Man, be serious. LOL

Have you even watched the episode that I'm referring to? The fact that he steals Superman's girlfriend was nothing more than a humorous aside, a representation of the MANY things Batman can do to get under Superman's skin, and aside from being a threat, be a rival as well.

The fact is, you've been seemingly campaigning for a Batman who would represent no threat to Superman, should he choose Superman must be defeated, and yet, you want him going up against cosmic-level foes alongside Superman??? What possible value could Batman represent in this kind of situation, if he couldn't figure out how to eliminate Superman, and carry out such a plan, if necessary?
 
The fact is, you've been seemingly campaigning for a Batman who would represent no threat to Superman, should he choose Superman must be defeated, and yet, you want him going up against cosmic-level foes alongside Superman??? What possible value could Batman represent in this kind of situation, if he couldn't figure out how to eliminate Superman, and carry out such a plan, if necessary?

No, actually I DON'T want him going up against cosmic-level threats alongside Superman, because these two are apples and oranges unless the whole Justice League ensemble is present. Because really, Superman does not need Batman, you are exactly right.

I'd much rather see Batman movies over here, and Superman movies over there. This allows the films to showcase their very different talents in a manner that cheats nobody.

I think this whole team-up concept is an ill-advised, last-minute mistake that may derail the entire justice league concept. But as I have said before, DC/WB does not care what I or any other fan of either character wants, so there's that.
 
I'd like to address here, that Superman can gain 10 years of medical experience and education in seconds, so don't say Supes can't match up to Bats in brains cause the fact is, that only characters like Luthor can match up to Superman.

Also, there is no way Batman can win, unless some crazy coincidences line up for it to happen, Batman's chances against Supes are milli decimal.

A physical confrontation would be for starters, ridiculous, second, I doubt it would be a confrontation , it will be more Batman running away from Supes until he finds a window so he can slow down Supes, cause that's what he does, he rarely even attacks Supes, he just slows him down.
 
I'd like to address here, that Superman can gain 10 years of medical experience and education in seconds, so don't say Supes can't match up to Bats in brains cause the fact is, that only characters like Luthor can match up to Superman.

Also, there is no way Batman can win, unless some crazy coincidences line up for it to happen, Batman's chances against Supes are milli decimal.

A physical confrontation would be for starters, ridiculous, second, I doubt it would be a confrontation , it will be more Batman running away from Supes until he finds a window so he can slow down Supes, cause that's what he does, he rarely even attacks Supes, he just slows him down.

What are you talking about? Only Luthor can match up to Superman? Is that because he has a little bit more money than Bruce? And also Superman wouldn't try to kill Batman which is why Batman would win.
 
I'd like to address here, that Superman can gain 10 years of medical experience and education in seconds, so don't say Supes can't match up to Bats in brains cause the fact is, that only characters like Luthor can match up to Superman.

Bull****. That's the kind of crazy, silver/golden age, deus ex machina, ridiculousness that should be excised from his character. Superman should not be omnipotent. Is it not enough that he's practically bulletproof, can fly faster than sound, punch a spaceship through a building, start a campfire just by looking at a pile of logs, and flash freeze someone just by breathing on them? :cuckoo:

I think we can do without the super-genius stuff. Just saying.
 
What are you talking about? Only Luthor can match up to Superman? Is that because he has a little bit more money than Bruce? And also Superman wouldn't try to kill Batman which is why Batman would win.

Money's got nothing to do, Luthor is the smartest man in the DCU with a 9th level intellect.

Batman wouldn't try to kill Superman either.

Batman has never beat Supes in canon or without help of others and he doesn't even defeat Supes, remember TDKR? He had to fake his death, while Superman was already recovering from that kryptonite arrow.
 
Bull****. That's the kind of crazy, silver/golden age, deus ex machina, ridiculousness that should be excised from his character. Superman should not be omnipotent. Is it not enough that he's practically bulletproof, can fly faster than sound, punch a spaceship through a building, start a campfire just by looking at a pile of logs, and flash freeze someone just by breathing on them? :cuckoo:

I think we can do without the super-genius stuff. Just saying.

You wanna talk Deux Ex machina involving Batman?

The super intellect was has been seen in the new 52 too.

He saved Lois Lane learning how to perform surgery seconds before she died.

It's a Superman trait, period.
 
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