Marvel's The Black Panther

[Wor-Gar]

Might be true- unless the critics pile on and trash it- ahead of time, got a feeling it will get bad reviews in any case.

Dc's future rests on The Batman film

I was kidding. I have zero hope for MockquaMan.

 

[chewblacca]

I want a Batman film where Batman is Batman. Solving crimes and kicking butt! No Bruce Wayne romance crap. Just Batman investigating a case having it lead to something big involving a super villain or two and kicking butt. The End.

 

[nexus]

I hope Aquaman gets the DCEU on track. Warner relies way too much on Superman and Batman, which usually causes everything else to grind to a halt. Fortunately Wonder Woman showed that other characters can make bank. Yes, the Superman and Batman franchises should be making $800M-$1B, but they need to have good scripts and direction rather than relying on the brands. The problem is DC hasn't been able to figure out its tone because they leaned to heavily into grounded, Nolan style and a washed out palette, and the audience wanted fantastical heroes, vivid colors, and big action. So the studio idiots are running around like chickens with their heads cut off that can't make decisions.

Glad to see Black Panther racking up at the box office. It's a great movie.

 

[ShadowX81]

So apparently thanks to this film "colonizer" is the internet's newest ethnic slur for white people.

 

[crows]

So apparently thanks to this film "colonizer" is the internet's newest ethnic slur for white people.

it is kinda ironic since the person saying colonizer kinda has a touch of inferiority since the "colonizer" is usually more advanced than the "colonized".

 

[Robopredinator]

CW is written for kids. For an adult to enjoy CW you literally have to turn off your brain. I don't like paying for mindless entertainment so the notion of the studio aiming the film at such a demographic was both infuriating and depressing.

BP is aimed at everyone. There's a real story with real heart driving the film. CW is heartless, uninspired, safe corporately-driven summer fare.

Basically CW is the opposite of BP.

My sentiments exactly after seeing Black Panther. The family loss, '92 little Killmonger and his dialogue with his dad, BP's reunion with his father, etc. It was deep, emotional stuff. Simply put: I cared for the characters and I have not been emotionally invested in other recent CB films. I mean, Killmonger's last scene was hard to except for me - I didn't want that for him.

 

[ShadowX81]

My sentiments exactly after seeing Black Panther. The family loss, '92 little Killmonger and his dialogue with his dad, BP's reunion with his father, etc. It was deep, emotional stuff. Simply put: I cared for the characters and I have not been emotionally invested in other recent CB films. I mean, Killmonger's last scene was hard to except for me - I didn't want that for him.

Honestly I put CW and BP pretty much right on the same level. CW a bit higher for me since I love Captain America.

To dismiss CW as a kids' movie really sells the movie and its government oversight plotline short. Granted the "Other Winter Soliders" ploitline feels tacked on and goes nowhere. That whole part should have been cut.

But with BP, I still don't get why everyone is praising Killmonger. Sure he has some great development with the relationship with his dad, but I don't buy his backstory. For a guy that was for some unexplained reason allowed to join the United States military at age 15, becoming an officer at 19, and got an engineering degree from MIT, we never see anything in his portrayal reflecting that background. His personality seems mostly defined by his backstory and what has happened to him rather than how he acts. He doesn't seems to be much more than "The Muscle". And eventually this film just kind of dissolves into generic CGI fight near the end.

As for Wakanda, that place is an absolute mess. It boggles my mind that this isolationist technocracy with no visable middle class is seen as some sort of ideal society. The Monarch spends more time handling things that the military should be doing for him than actually running the government, and legitimacy of a constitutional right to lead is settled by freaking spear fights.

 

[Robopredinator]

I could not care less about the plausibility of the attainment of such accolades. When walking into a CB movie, I know not to get caught up in technicalities and prefer to see the forest rather than the trees.

CW had a more 'adult' storyline for lack of better words but it still fell short in depth for me personally. The last time I can remember that I was moved was Magneto's scene in the woods with soldiers accidentally killing his daughter.

 

[chewblacca]

As for Wakanda, that place is an absolute mess. It boggles my mind that this isolationist technocracy with no visable middle class is seen as some sort of ideal society. The Monarch spends more time handling things that the military should be doing for him than actually running the government, and legitimacy of a constitutional right to lead is settled by freaking spear fights.

Yeah Wakanda is such a mess it's people seem to not want anything or need anything. What other industrial or colonized society can say that? And those spears, like Killmonger says can take out a tank.

 

[Sassafras]

CW is written for kids. For an adult to enjoy CW you literally have to turn off your brain. I don't like paying for mindless entertainment so the notion of the studio aiming the film at such a demographic was both infuriating and depressing.

BP is aimed at everyone. There's a real story with real heart driving the film. CW is heartless, uninspired, safe corporately-driven summer fare.

Basically CW is the opposite of BP.

Don't agree, beyond my usual frustration over rating systems that don't allow for the tiniest bit of stickiness, depending. (There's some blood but no open wounds - whatever the standard is.) CW is loaded with difficult choices - I remain impressed by what the Russos were able to achieve and by the actors. Seriously I held my breath when Cap raises his shield over Tony first time I saw the film. The scene with BP and Zemo, Cap and Bucky apartment, Wanda and Vision IMO are perfection IMO. And the Russos can do action - LOL it's been a while time to rewatch.

Since I haven't seen BP impossible to compare. I'd rather wait to be more in the mood to see it at this point. Especially after being so hyped about it at first. I hope for me it will be more of a Homecoming experience (surprised in a good way) and not a WW experience (hey, this is better than I thought...no, wait...ugh this Ares etc. - just no. WTF)

 

[SNIKT1950]

I rolled my eyes alot during CW. The movie is just asinine at times. The scene where Ross lectures The Avengers and Cap asks him to turn off the footage of them SAVING the world was appalling. For ****'s sake, I don't think a 12-year-old would take such nonsense seriously. And there are over a dozen scenes like that. The whole movie is virtually one long test for [adult] people's patience. You find yourself constantly either rolling your eyes or just being in complete disbelief of the hilarious PG melodrama being served to you.

James Mangold apparently laughed all throughout the movie.

 

[JAWS]

My main issue with CW is that, much like BvS, it tried way too hard to be too many things in one film, including but not limited to:

A Winter Soldier sequel
An Age of Ultron sequel
A Black Panther teaser
A Homecoming teaser
An Infinity War teaser

When that much stuff gets thrown into a film and is executed in a sloppy, tedious manner, it's just not for me, LOL.

Fair enough that you feel that way... Personally I felt that CW was the right way to do it while BvS was the wrong way.

CW is written for kids. For an adult to enjoy CW you literally have to turn off your brain. I don't like paying for mindless entertainment so the notion of the studio aiming the film at such a demographic was both infuriating and depressing.

BP is aimed at everyone. There's a real story with real heart driving the film. CW is heartless, uninspired, safe corporately-driven summer fare.

Basically CW is the opposite of BP.

I watch all films with the big picture in mind.. CW was far from perfect but overall the story was good enough with some fun action and interesting dynamic between all the characters that for a first time viewing I found it far better then BP...

Having said that.. Its lack of heart as you say may be the reason that it has not held up as well in my memories. I have only seen it 2x and enjoyed it both times. But when I think of the film I don't get excited to watch it again.

So in that way BP has a chance for me to find a bit more love for in the future.

However in the big picture, BP had three major issues for me.

1. BP was not as interesting as a character in this film. I found other Marvel hero's far more interesting in their debut solo films.. What is strange is how much more interesting he was in CW.There were three characters that were on the screen that I found much more interesting with Killmonger, BP siter, and General. then there was a big drop off with BP, his love interest, and his mom. IMO the main character of the film should be much more compelling. In all honesty I found Klaw to be much more interesting then BP. Its too bad because the actor is perfect for the role and plays the part well.

2. The first hour of the film dragged and had little to do with the second hour of the film. Sure there was some world building but little else. Much of this may have to do that the first hour being focused on BP which as I mentioned already was not as interesting to me. After the first hour Killmonger becomes a more important character to the plot. IMO this plot should have been the main focus of the entire film. Would have helped with the pacing of the film.

3. The action, FX, and look of the film gave it a cheap, made for TV feel. I know its been said that the action was not the focal point of this film. I can accept that. But going into a comic film the expectations are that you will see some exciting action. This film failed in that regard IMO. Even if the effects were 100% perfect it still would have suffered from unimaginative action set pieces. Just look at the practical fight scenes.. There was room for some good hand to hand combat there but nothing stood out. Just basic action that you can see in any average film.


Sure BP was more serious in tone and plot then CW but the execution was not as good IMO. It had potential but for me it missed that potential.

Now I am not sure if I would feel this way if the hype was not so overblown and I was not reading critics heaping Best Marvel movie ever on top of this film. That just makes me scratch my head more and rebel against the film

Still BP had a very good cast and I appreciated the lack of MU Humor. I thought it was also a much better effort then the last few Marvel films.


Anyways I am not trying to convince anyone or bring them to my point of view. I really hope "the heart" of this film helps me enjoy the film more when I watch it on Blu ray.

 

[ShadowX81]

Yeah Wakanda is such a mess it's people seem to not want anything or need anything. What other industrial or colonized society can say that? And those spears, like Killmonger says can take out a tank.

That's because we spend most of our film following the ruling class. Of course they are happy. They are all genius billionaires that seem to treat thier responsibility of running the country like a fun hobby instead of a job.
The country's lower class that are all living in huts without electricity or indoor plumbing might have more to complain about. Literally only the upper class seems to be industrialized.

And regardless of how powerful those spears are, any society that has fistfights in place of elections is literally 8,000 years behind the times.

 

[JAWS]

James Mangold apparently laughed all throughout the movie

Oh NO!! The director of Knight and Day did not like the movie.

 

[ShadowX81]

I rolled my eyes alot during CW. The movie is just asinine at times. The scene where Ross lectures The Avengers and Cap asks him to turn off the footage of them SAVING the world was appalling. For ****'s sake, I don't think a 12-year-old would take such nonsense seriously.

Except these are extremely close to real debates that happen in the world today about the acceptable casualty rate during a military conflict, even a just one.
So I guess alot of people over the age of 12 are taking things exactly like this very seriously.

 

[JAWS]

I rolled my eyes alot during CW. The movie is just asinine at times. The scene where Ross lectures The Avengers and Cap asks him to turn off the footage of them SAVING the world was appalling. For ****'s sake, I don't think a 12-year-old would take such nonsense seriously. And there are over a dozen scenes like that. The whole movie is virtually one long test for [adult] people's patience. You find yourself constantly either rolling your eyes or just being in complete disbelief of the hilarious PG melodrama being served to you.

See there you go Snikt... With rhetoric like that, You are going to make me rebel and love CW even more and increase my dislike with BP

 

[xipotec]

Well, I gave it an 8/10 even though it’s basically Rocky 1-3.

Parts of it really bothered me though. The ENTIRE culture of Wakanda felt like a cartoon version of actually African culture. The whole dancing thing during the ritual fight was laughable. Check that.....ALL THE DANCING .....was laughable. I dunno, but I feel like a culture that advanced would not be so keen on tribal dances....

Most of it was good. I felt the female body guards were a bit silly as well, just because of their “rituals” also.
This films strength lies in the excellent acting by the principal cast, a very good pair of villains (finally!) and some outstanding side characters.

The cgi was pretty bad again also....I mean seriously ....who are they paying to do these CGI shots and who approves it?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SNIKT1950]

CW's lack of heart as you say may be the reason that it has not held up as well in my memories. I have only seen it 2x and enjoyed it both times. But when I think of the film I don't get excited to watch it again.

Ditto. Saw it twice (second time I was hoping it would improve but it actually got worse for me). Have no desire to see it again.

 

[Sassafras]

I rolled my eyes alot during CW. The movie is just asinine at times. The scene where Ross lectures The Avengers and Cap asks him to turn off the footage of them SAVING the world was appalling. For ****'s sake, I don't think a 12-year-old would take such nonsense seriously. And there are over a dozen scenes like that. The whole movie is virtually one long test for [adult] people's patience. You find yourself constantly either rolling your eyes or just being in complete disbelief of the hilarious PG melodrama being served to you.

James Mangold apparently laughed all throughout the movie.

Not me. Love CW. If people aren't into a film or see things differently *shrug*. Not everyone loved CW or BP...I mean without even seeing BP while some are finding the colonizer stuff funny, to me it's irritating taking a shot at another race when every other MCU film has fallen over itself to be diverse. But that kind of thing was OK here.

And that's just one thing. I get it. Whether I enjoy that or a POW torture victim soldier or professional being referred to as a "broke white boy", or the fact that apparently a character ends up as he does (Zuri) when I was really looking forward to lots of him, or overlook CGI gone amuck or the use (even fake) of an endangered species in a battle, or can get around a main story that doesn't grab me and just get captivated by some of the performances, I dunno.

At least for me at the moment, there's not enough to motivate a theater trip. Seriously even what I've read about Killmonger's choices bothers me, not to mention that line about his ancestors. (His well off, protected ancestors?)

But plenty have posted they are re-seeing this; my ticket money won't be missed. To me tho it justs sounds like Coogler was doing his thing. Just happened to be able to do it with Marvel's money - and re being a lead in to IW it doesn't matter whether you've seen it or not.

 

[SNIKT1950]

There was a way to adapt CW into a great and meaningful film. It's just not at all what they were going for. They wanted cheap spectacle, Big Bang Theory-quality dialogue and a plot that claimed to be serious drama but was really teenage-level melodrama. They were never interested in making a game changer.

BP on the other hand never prioritized the popcorn antics CW did and instead kept the focus on the struggle of its protagonists, on the identity crisis they were both facing together. It beautifully sacrificed spectacle in favor of character, something very rare for an MCU CBM.

I wish we'd gotten a CW that was as honest and unwavering as BP was. It's a damn shame because Evans is superb as Cap and deserved a second great Cap movie.