Fan-made as it may be, but this pretty much spells out an event that you seem to have missed:
Yeah, but see, when I discuss this series, I don't pull up Wiki for references?

Fan-made as it may be, but this pretty much spells out an event that you seem to have missed:
Yeah, but see, when I discuss this series, I don't pull up Wiki for references?It has been a long time since I played Peace Walker, and honestly, it's a game that I don't care for very much. So, I'm not sure how much of that information was actually in the game, or if whether the authors just tried to fill in the blanks with their own assumptions.
Yeah, but see, when I discuss this series, I don't pull up Wiki for references?It has been a long time since I played Peace Walker, and honestly, it's a game that I don't care for very much. So, I'm not sure how much of that information was actually in the game, or if whether the authors just tried to fill in the blanks with their own assumptions.
wikia pages are very detailed & most of the time 99% accurate, much more accurate than wiki, because it's written by hardcore fans, not casual fans like you who's not 100% sure about what you are talking about because "it's been a while since i last played it". in fact most of the pages can be submitted as a thesis should one day literature programs accepts games & cartoons as research subjects. they pretty much knows every single codec & has tons of reference books on them, compared to your vagued memory on them.
You're one to talk. Maybe if you were a little more skilled at actually quoting information and not making a complete ******* out of yourself all the time, people would take you a little more seriously.
Why are you so quick to refute Wiki references when some of them are very basic outlines of in-game events? Events that you can't even seem to recall on your own? Do I seriously need to look up the audio briefing file from Peace Walker on Youtube when I'm already pointing out established canon to streamline the discussion?
You were basing your argument on the established canon of MGS3 and PW together, not independently. If we're arguing only about MGS3 then yeah, I'd have given you leeway on the ambiguity of The Boss's motives, but PW pretty much spells it out in multiple Briefing Files. Shoddy as PW may have been in some of its execution, it made very clear-cut ideas about The Boss's life and the implications of her final wish towards Big Boss. It's the whole point of the friggin' AI singing "Sing A Song" at the end as it showed The Boss's self-sacrificing conviction and belief for a peaceful life.
Why are you so quick to refute Wiki references when some of them are very basic outlines of in-game events? Events that you can't even seem to recall on your own? Do I seriously need to look up the audio briefing file from Peace Walker on Youtube when I'm already pointing out established canon as a convenient streamlining the discussion?
You were basing your argument on the established canon of MGS3 and PW together, not independently. If we're arguing only about MGS3 then yeah, I'd have given you leeway on the ambiguity of The Boss's motives, but PW pretty much spells it out in multiple Briefing Files. Shoddy as PW may have been in some of its execution, it made very clear-cut ideas about The Boss's life and the implications of her final wish towards Big Boss. It's the whole point of the friggin' AI singing "Sing A Song" at the end as it showed The Boss's self-sacrificing conviction and belief for a peaceful life.
coming from someone who quotes based off his memory and discrediting all the wiki & wikia pages dedicated to the series...
anyway we know how film both of you & snake stand on your beliefs. people who disagree with you even the slightest are always considered as trolls. and since both of you guys are old timers & holds lots of respect by the rest of the members your words carry more weight.
@Solidus: Actually I agree with you on those, the only thing I'm refuting is The Boss's stance in imparting her sense of loyalty to Big Boss which proved to be gravely false. If The Boss had simply wanted Big Boss to live the life of a loyal soldier, she wouldn't have imparted that truth to him. She wanted to expose that truth to prevent him from living a similar life to hers as a loyal soldier under the exploit of a corrupt governing body, except he took it as literally waging war on the rest of the America while making child soldiers out of war-torn nations.
12:05 to 19:30 details the events of The Boss's regret over a "failed" mission and how The Boss wanted America to be set back on its various projects to prevent further conflict:
The only thing that I ever got from PW, was that Big Boss didn't want to follow in the Boss' footsteps. He didn't want to remain loyal to a country that would eventually sacrifice him for the greater good, so he chose to go on his own way, and to life on his own terms with Outer Heaven. Which is completely contrary to MGS 4's explanation, that Big Boss misunderstood The Boss's philosophy about to "unify the world", and he attempted to do it through armed conflict.
I'll give you this, maybe there was more to the briefing files than I remember. I'll probably look them up later (not on Wiki). But, PW certainly did add some unnecessary character retcons into the timeline.
@Solidus: Actually I agree with you on those, the only thing I'm refuting is The Boss's stance in imparting her sense of loyalty to Big Boss which proved to be gravely false. If The Boss had simply wanted Big Boss to live the life of a loyal soldier, she wouldn't have imparted that truth to him. She wanted to expose that truth to prevent him from living a similar life to hers as a loyal soldier under the exploit of a corrupt governing body, except he took it as literally waging war on the rest of America while making child soldiers out of war-torn nations.
12:05 to 19:30 details the events of The Boss's regret over a "failed" mission and how The Boss wanted America to be set back on its various projects to prevent further conflict:
I don't mind the idea of personal interpretations, but you specifically called out mine when I based my own assessment on established canon from both MGS3 and PW. I don't mind picking and choosing which stuff to ignore and better our experiences with the series, but the fact remains that you were refuting one of my claims as false without accounting for the details I derived from PW, which is still considered as a major part of Big Boss's story canon.
No offense but it just feels a little underhanded to call me out on my interpretation and then outright tell me that you couldn't remember the stuff I'm mentioning in PW since you weren't so keen on its retcons.![]()
You do bring up a good point about the established canon, though. Peace Walker has plot holes that contradict the revelations from MGS 4. In Eva's debriefing to Solid Snake, she mentioned that Big Boss formed Outer Heaven as a means to accomplish The Boss' will. While in Peace Walker, it's essentially said, that Big Boss formed Outer Heaven by rejecting the Boss' sense of sacrifice by "putting down her gun". So, I guess if we have to discuss MGS, it would be good to separate the canon from MGS 4 from that of Peace Walker's. For all intents and purposes, it does feel like this series has gone off in an alternate timeline for the last several years.
I should mention that Big Boss outright says that he misinterpreted The Boss's will though. The misinterpretation being that she wanted him to maintain his own beliefs and individuality. Big Boss felt she betrayed herself because she wasn't true to her feelings, despite the fact that she kept insisting this on Big Boss. In this regard, Big Boss DID attempt to embody her will for people to be free from exploitation, but the problem is he embodied it in a radical way that also ignores her peace-loving side (you simply cannot argue this part considering the very opposite stance of Big Boss and The Boss even in MGS3 and MGS4). It's not that PW contradicts MGS4, it just added more depth to the reasoning behind The Boss's will and self-sacrifice.
You say that PW contradicts MGS4 but on what grounds? PW establishes Big Boss's very obvious misinterpretation of The Boss's will. He rejects her as a soldier who died for her country, but not the ideals that she taught him as a soldier with a retained sense of individuality and direction in his life. There's no erroneous contradiction there in regards to what was shown in MGS4, and you seem to be refuting my claims out of dissatisfaction over PW's execution of its story.
In Eva's debriefing to Solid Snake, she mentioned that Big Boss formed Outer Heaven as a means to accomplish The Boss' will. While in Peace Walker, it's essentially said, that Big Boss formed Outer Heaven by rejecting the Boss' sense of sacrifice by "putting down her gun".
In MGS 4, Big Boss' entire purpose of creating Outer Heaven was to fulfill the Boss' will of unifying the world. Big Boss believed that the world had to be unified by force, whereas, she believed in leaving the world as it was, and and eventually nations would revolve their own problems. He never rejected her in MGS 4, as he did in Peace Walker - and therein lies the apparent contradiction.
Wait what???? Okay sorry but that's where you completely lost me? Unifying the world? You literally idealized Big Boss's creation of Outer Heaven as part of The Boss's will for peace in the most wrong way possible. Big Boss created Outer Heaven for the sake of giving soldiers the freedom that they have been deprived of by corrupt governments. He used it in an attempt to take down Zero's plot of a controlled world through proxies and manipulation, a world that was made with the intention of unifying nations through purposeful deprivation of free will. I don't get where you're getting the idea that Big Boss somehow wanted to unify the world through Outer Heaven when the very point of Outer Heaven was to give back soldiers their individuality, far from the notion of unifying the world.
The whole point of Big Boss's blunder was his respective conflict with Zero by literally building Outer Heaven. Big Boss wanted to embody the part of her will that focused on her ideals as a soldier with a code. Big Boss assumed The Boss wanted a world where soldiers were freed from controlling governments, not to "unify the world". PW doesn't contradict this by illustrating that Big Boss simply rejects The Boss's personal resolve for peace through self-sacrifice (a part of her will that he never even understood until MGS4 mind you), rather what he took as the central part of her will was to preserve a soldier's integrity and sense of self.
They all look close enough for Hot Toys to pass their standard requirements:
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Not quite, he wanted to fulfill The Boss's will of freedom of control (soldiers specifically) by fighting the good fight for the soldiers that were being exploited by corrupt governments. His desire of removing governments falls squarely against Zero and nothing else. To illustrate:Regardless of Big Boss' war against Zero, wasn't his ultimate goal to unify the world in war, by disestablishing governments and making everyone green collared. I gathered that they both essentially had a disagreement on how to carry out the Boss' will and that eventually lead to their split.
This is exactly why we believe you're a troll![]()
these guys would like to have a word with you
Except not really. Only if they disagree and are being an *******, like you. I've disagreed with them at times, and we're still friends.coming from someone who quotes based off his memory and discrediting all the wiki & wikia pages dedicated to the series...
anyway we know how film both of you & snake stand on your beliefs. people who disagree with you even the slightest are always considered as trolls. and since both of you guys are old timers & holds lots of respect by the rest of the members your words carry more weight.
Exactly yeah. Especially with Liquid, who has no facial hair unlike the others. The only two that could pass are Old Big Boss, and Solidus Snake - but it's not enough.No they don't. It's like saying we could use a Terminator Arnold headsculpt to pass of as a Conan. Snake never looks the same in any game, you just posted photographic evidence of that.