Moria ORC PF

[The Josh]

I understand your position, and half agree. I do understand the position of those wanting what they ordered, and half agree.

I agree with wanting what was ordered as well. It totally makes sense.

Would not the model for the proto be something (model/pic) of what was used in the film? If not what reference was used? The artist who worked on the proto did a awesome job--those who ordered expecting that weathered look have a right to be upset.

One would think. Who knows what kind of pics SS was given when making the proto. Once it was looked at more NL may have said we want it closer to the actual costume. This wouldn't be the first time a studio has had something changed. The issue that would hack me off is that the piece isn't as weathered.

It's common knowledge that Moria Orc's don't wipe.

They don't brush very well either.

In essence, YES. If the prototype looked WAAAAY better being inaccurate I'd rather have the piece that is aesthetically better looking. Basically, it's like saying you rather have something that looks awful as long as it's accurate.

Then LOTR collectors and SW Collectors really are way different. The Utapau figure was getting killed because its off around the breathing thing. I've seen some say if it comes that way they'll be ticked, but that would mean you'd be happy right? Where as here it matches the actual costume but you're not happy. These kinds of things just boggle the mind and make me laugh.

And yes if SS had changed the pictures on the site and told us of the change before it shipped it would be fine since we could cancel. Sure some of us would still be perplexed by the change but at least we would know in advance. But the fact of the matter is, SS didn't notify the collectors.

I agree they messed up there. Something they've done before and need to change. The other issue @ least for me is its not as weathered. That would have made me more likely to cancel than anything.

 

[LOTRFan]

In essence, YES. If the prototype looked WAAAAY better being inaccurate I'd rather have the piece that is aesthetically better looking. Basically, it's like saying you rather have something that looks awful as long as it's accurate.

And yes if SS had changed the pictures on the site and told us of the change before it shipped it would be fine since we could cancel. Sure some of us would still be perplexed by the change but at least we would know in advance. But the fact of the matter is, SS didn't notify the collectors.

And that really is the issue - agreed.

Not being film accurate would be reason enough for NL to jump, if in fact they did.

 

[icruise]

Then LOTR collectors and SW Collectors really are way different. The Utapau figure was getting killed because its off around the breathing thing. I've seen some say if it comes that way they'll be ticked, but that would mean you'd be happy right? Where as here it matches the actual costume but you're not happy. These kinds of things just boggle the mind and make me laugh.

I don't really think it's different at all. It all boils down to what you mean by "screen accuracy." I think a good comparison is the aliens from the movie Aliens. A lot of them were painted a sort of orange color so they would appear right on screen. But most people would not want a statue painted how the colors actually were on the costume -- they want what they saw in the movie. (And this is why people want the clones to be accurate -- after all, they only exist on screen.)

In this case, I've gone back and quickly looked at the Moria scenes, and it doesn't look to me like you can see what color the material used was. It certainly didn't stand out or appear "cardinal" or "cameilian" (happy now? ). But as I said earlier, I don't even think the issue is the color so much as the fact that it's not weathered. I think I would be fine with this exact material AND color if it was properly weathered (which is one reason why I think this can probably be salvaged with some work, but that's not something we should have to do). It doesn't make sense for an orc to have a pristine red loincloth.

 

[woodsy]

Really --->

That is actually closer to what SS is offering than the prototype.

You are kidding right?

 

[The Josh]

I agree it SHOULD be more weathered. I just find it funny people not wanting the color of the costume which is accurate over something that wasn't. There's more flip floppig going on with collectors here than John Kerry back in 04.

 

[LOTRFan]

You are kidding right?

About what, a flash washing a different shade of red into an even more extreme example; no.

 

[woodsy]

I agree it SHOULD be more weathered. I just find it funny people not wanting the color of the costume which is accurate over something that wasn't. There's more flip floppig going on with collectors here than John Kerry back in 04.

Take a good hard look at the photo's above and tell me that the Santa Claus Red outfit looks closer to the movie costume than the prototype. And didn't we go through this movie costume accurate vs actual movie accurate with the SS WK bust? I think people have made it more than clear they want movie accurate and that hasn't changed one bit.

 

[The Josh]

Take a good hard look at the photo's above and tell me that the Santa Claus Red outfit looks closer to the movie costume than the prototype. And didn't we go through this movie costume accurate vs actual movie accurate with the SS WK bust? I think people have made it more than clear they want movie accurate and that hasn't changed one bit.

I have no problem telling you the pictures that have been posted of the actual costume more match the final item. That IMO makes the item accurate.

 

[woodsy]

About what, a flash washing a different shade of red into an even more extreme example; no.

Do you need me to post any of the numerous pic's taken in daylight conditions without the aid of a flash...pic's you've already seen numerous times?

 

[Hew]

Then LOTR collectors and SW Collectors really are way different. The Utapau figure was getting killed because its off around the breathing thing. I've seen some say if it comes that way they'll be ticked, but that would mean you'd be happy right? Where as here it matches the actual costume but you're not happy. These kinds of things just boggle the mind and make me laugh.

Now that would be something that depends on the individual. One could always petition to get a feature changed before the product ships, as has happened before, but once the item ships then it's a tad bit harder.

For me, since LOTR is a bit more isolated as far as official graphical representation goes (media) my view of LOTR is half LOTR movies and half imagination. Because let's face it, LOTR fans have to rely more on their own interpretation of the character's representation, because so much is left out of the films. AND even if everything was included in the films, that's another's view of the material, i.e. Peter Jackson. And not something official stamped with approval by Lucas.

 

[LOTRFan]

Do you need me to post any of the numerous pic's taken in daylight conditions without the aid of a flash...pic's you've already seen numerous times?

I don't need anything from you thanks, but it is a bit disingenuous to post one of the more extreme pics to make your point.

It is what it is at this point; I can't see anyone's opinions changing at least until they have this in-hand.

 

[Badvermin]

So you'd rather have an inaccurate piece than a piece that was changed to match things correctly?

For a random unnamed orc character such as this? Absolutely.

For another example, I prefer the ribs on the Alien skull to be sculpted in relief, rather than just painted on (like the original prop). I'd much rather have good looking item that captures how it looked on screen, than an "accurate" one. That said, the "new" red orc isn't accurate either, the orginal costume appears to be cloth, not leather/pleather, and is a much darker shade of red. No matter what, we aren't getting a true replica of that particular character, therefore I'd rather have something that looked good, compared to accurate.

Besides that, I paid money based on the photos that Sideshow provided, if the final product does not come close to what is being advertised on the site right at this very moment, that is a major issue.

 

[Ktjn]

Ok, I did what dave did and looked into the appendices…and what did I noticed, a few inaccuracies on this piece, since Josh,LOTRFan, and Dave insist we use that pic for accuarte purposes.

1.Light brown material/ potato sack cloth, which should be black. The majority of that attire uses it.
2. On the Legs, why does the hide/leather armor go all the way up to his knees. and why is the cloth material not black on his forearms?
3.No red velvet looking leather what so ever. Just a red dirty torn up cloth.
Later on in the appendences after going through the weapns, they come to the finished orc product…and what do I see more innaccuacies.
4. The MO is missing the chainmail on his body. Way to go SS.
5. the red cloth isn't weather down n dirty n torn up enough. almost frazzled
Verdict: Innacurrate.

I re-watched the Mines of Moria fight scene and near every MO/Goblin was different. Some did have a form of weathered hide armor (the proto pleather)…each MO is unique. What SS gave us is our own unique individual MO, to which they cheapened out on the material. So you either take it as it is, or don’t. Me, I cancelled.

I have no more to say on this piece, for it would be

 

[Isildur's bane]

For a random unnamed orc character such as this? Absolutely.

For another example, I prefer the ribs on the Alien skull to be sculpted in relief, rather than just painted on (like the original prop). I'd much rather have good looking item that captures how it looked on screen, than an "accurate" one. That said, the "new" red orc isn't accurate either, the orginal costume appears to be cloth, not leather/pleather, and is a much darker shade of red. No matter what, we aren't getting a true replica of that particular character, therefore I'd rather have something that looked good, compared to accurate.

Besides that, I paid money based on the photos that Sideshow provided, if the final product does not come close to what is being advertised on the site right at this very moment, that is a major issue.

And this what it boils down to, wanting the piece that looks better vs getting an arguable accurate piece that significantly falls short of what it could have been.

 

[The Josh]

Now that would be something that depends on the individual. One could always petition to get a feature changed before the product ships, as has happened before, but once the item ships then it's a tad bit harder.

It does but as a whole I would think most fans want something that matches the items used. Yeah, its a bigger issue once something starts shipping.

For me, since LOTR is a bit more isolated as far as official graphical representation goes (media) my view of LOTR is half LOTR movies and half imagination. Because let's face it, LOTR fans have to rely more on their own interpretation of the character's representation, because so much is left out of the films. AND even if everything was included in the films, that's another's view of the material, i.e. Peter Jackson. And not something official stamped with approval by Lucas.

It is a bit isolated thats for sure. I think thats what makes LOTR so much fun though is you do get to use your imagination.

For a random unnamed orc character such as this? Absolutely.

For another example, I prefer the ribs on the Alien skull to be sculpted in relief, rather than just painted on (like the original prop). I'd much rather have good looking item that captures how it looked on screen, than an "accurate" one. That said, the "new" red orc isn't accurate either, the orginal costume appears to be cloth, not leather/pleather, and is a much darker shade of red. No matter what, we aren't getting a true replica of that particular character, therefore I'd rather have something that looked good, compared to accurate.

Besides that, I paid money based on the photos that Sideshow provided, if the final product does not come close to what is being advertised on the site right at this very moment, that is a major issue.

Whatever floats your boat then.

 

[The Josh]

And this what it boils down to, wanting the piece that looks better vs getting an arguable accurate piece that significantly falls short of what it could have been.

Then SS, HT, Medicom, etc should all stop trying to be accurate and just make them look as cool as possible.

 

[icruise]

Come on, Josh. Do you really think that anything put out by those companies is really "accurate?" If you want to get right down to it, they're all only rough approximations, and that's fine. These are toys and statues, not museum replicas. The point is that you could find dozens of things wrong with everything if you really want to (just look at the controversy about the 12" Indy figure). But most people don't really care that much as long as it looks like what we expect it to look like. I seem to remember you saying that people who were quibbling about minor details of the Indy costume were being silly and now you're "Mr. Accuracy?"

 

[The Josh]

Come on, Josh. Do you really think that anything put out by those companies is really "accurate?" If you want to get right down to it, they're all only rough approximations, and that's fine. These are toys and statues, not museum replicas. The point is that you could find dozens of things wrong with everything if you really want to (just look at the controversy about the 12" Indy figure). But most people don't really care that much as long as it looks like what we expect it to look like. I seem to remember you saying that people who were quibbling about minor details of the Indy costume were being silly and now you're "Mr. Accuracy?"

No, I don't think any of the stuff we get is 100% accurate. I've always been as long as its as close as possible I'm fine with it. They got it pretty close with this change minus the weathering. My issue with Indy had to some details so minor that nobody would ever notice like the two little buttons on the jacket. Not the color of the jacket.

Plus I'm playing a little bit of devil's advocate here.

 

[Isildur's bane]

It's funny how the "accuracy police" show up when many are angered by the change, but were no where to be found when the piece went up for pre-order months ago.

 

[Badvermin]

I've always been as long as its as close as possible I'm fine with it. They got it pretty close with this change minus the weathering.

I'm waiting for final judgment when I get it into my hands, but I do not feel the pictures look close at all to either the original costume or the prototype Sideshow currently is using to advertise this figure. Plus the more a figure costs, the more attention to detail I expect. The clothing in the photos doesn't look significantly better than I've seen on $50 figures, and it should.