Neill Blomkamp's ALIEN is official!

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Anytime you introduce a massive plot hole in your opening credit scene, I would say your film has gone off the rails.

Aliens had some major plotholes too, yet no one cares

 

[Khev]

Aliens had some major plotholes too but I'm not going to post any because I sure as heck can't think of any examples.

Then why even say that at all?

 

[Xenoburger_]

Which Alien 3 continued. Albeit with just one alien. But they kept the idea of a Queen and the Alien sensing it in Ripley and leaving her alive. One can reason it's role in a hive context would be exactly the same as the warriors in Aliens.

It kept the idea, but the dog alien wasn't made out to be a cannon fodder bug like the Aliens warriors. It was horrific, it was clever, it was hunting them down.

You remember the scene where the candle lights are slowly blowing out, one by one? That was tense, scary and suspenseful. Or when Golic watches another inmate's head get blown open, to reveal a blood-covered "dragon"?

Aliens had some major plotholes too, yet no one cares

Then why even say that at all?

I can think of some.

The queen using the ****ing elevator for one. Talk about convenience.

If she can do that and also get up on the dropship, hold on through the heat and vibration of a nuclear explosion, then it sure as hell isn't hard to believe she carried/popped out another egg in an attempt to keep her species alive if she were to die.

Oh and there's also the scene where Ripley's foot, of all things, is keeping our beloved 14-foot Queen from getting blown out to space.

Aliens had plot holes.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Then why even say that at all?

I thought it was common knowledge. Ok, here are some Aliens plotholes. Enjoy...

Hicks knows the aliens will breach their perimeter sooner or later, yet no one suggests getting to the other drop-ship until they learn of the imminent nuclear disaster. So they were just going to sit there for 17 days with next to no ammo and 150 pissed aliens trying to get in if the reactor didn't go critical?

Burke's plan was to impregnate Newt and Ripley while they slept, then sneak the creatures through quarantine in their stomach and jettison the marines in space. But Ripley and Newt would realize they were impregnated when they would have awaken with facehuggers attached to them. How would he hide that? Everyone would know it was him since he moved Ripley's pulse rifle out of the room, something facehuggers aren't prone to do.

In the future there is no nuclear safety and no fail-safe procedures. Just a few bursts from a Smart-gun can cause a nuclear power-plant to explode in a way the nuclear material used in those plants is not capable of doing.

In the first film, a few drops of alien blood melt through several floors of the Nostromo. In this movie, when the sentry guns mow down several aliens, there is no structural damage/melting on any of them.

Just how did little Newt survive for so long alone and surrounded by deadly aliens ? Most soldiers can't last more than a few seconds. I know we all want that cute little girl to survive, but not showing how she managed to live for days in the most hostile environment of the sci-fi future is a sign in itself that the screenwriter had no clue himself.

The military technology at the disposition of all space marines is lacking even in our modern standards. They have no night visions, no armor and simply no technological advancement that would differentiate them from current soldiers. In fact, Hicks uses a shotgun that is 200 years old, akin to soldiers in Afghanistan today using muskets. Was the defense budget of the past two centuries blown on spaceships and nothing else ?

A court of inquiry does not find Ripley's account regarding why she destroyed the Nostromo credible. The aliens are believed to be from her own imagination to cover-up from the fact that she destroyed the spaceship herself. But somehow, the death of the other six Nostromo crew members is not brought up. If she was in fact responsible for the destruction of the spaceship, she would also be responsible for the death of the whole crew and tried as a murderer.

 

[Khev]

Aliens had plot holes.

Ok, here are some Aliens plotholes.

Do you guys actually know what a plot hole is? Serious question. Every single "plot hole" that you cited can be easily explained. Easily. And no, "magic" (which is the reason the egg exists at the beginning of A3) is not necessary for any of them.

"Convenience" is not a plot hole. "Lucky" is not a plot hole. Apone letting his best corporal carry around a family heirloom on his back is not a plot hole. Good grief.

Yes, there are some inconsistencies between ALIEN and ALIENS. The acid blood is indeed weaker. Why? Well there's room to theorize but yes it's weaker. Ripley quotes Kane as saying things ("thousands of eggs") that he didn't actually say on screen in the first film. But as it's own narrative ALIENS is surprisingly consistent internally.

 

[Xenoburger_]

Do you guys actually know what a plot hole is? Serious question. Every single "plot hole" that you cited can be easily explained. Easily. And no, "magic" (which is the reason the egg exists at the beginning of A3) is not necessary for any of them.

They can be easily explained if you make something up, sure. The egg exists in Alien 3 because it was convenient. The same reason these other problems/plot holes/whatever you want to call them exist in Aliens.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Do you guys actually know what a plot hole is? Serious question. Every single "plot hole" that you cited can be easily explained. Easily. And no, "magic" (which is the reason the egg exists at the beginning of A3) is not necessary for any of them.

"Convenience" is not a plot hole. "Lucky" is not a plot hole. Apone letting his best private carry around a family heirloom on his back is not a plot hole. Good grief.

Yes, inconsistency in a storyline. Things like illogical or impossible events, actions, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.

 

[Xenoburger_]

Burke's plan was to impregnate Newt and Ripley while they slept, then sneak the creatures through quarantine in their stomach and jettison the marines in space. But Ripley and Newt would realize they were impregnated when they would have awaken with facehuggers attached to them. How would he hide that? Everyone would know it was him since he moved Ripley's pulse rifle out of the room, something facehuggers aren't prone to do.

All these years later and I still don't understand what the hell Burke was thinking with his "plan".

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

All these years later and I still don't understand what the hell Burke was thinking with his "plan".

His plan is still much better than the League of Shadows' plan to destroy Gotham in Batman Begins Worst plan ever

 

[Khev]

All these years later and I still don't understand what the hell Burke was thinking with his "plan".

You aren't supposed to understand what Burke was thinking because he never told anyone. He probably didn't give a crap about ICC quarantine at that point and was just trying to kill Ripley so she wouldn't turn him in.

 

[a-dev]

It kept the idea, but the dog alien wasn't made out to be a cannon fodder bug like the Aliens warriors. It was horrific, it was clever, it was hunting them down.

You remember the scene where the candle lights are slowly blowing out, one by one? That was tense, scary and suspenseful. Or when Golic watches another inmate's head get blown open, to reveal a blood-covered "dragon"?

It couldn't be cannon fodder. It was the only Alien in the film, it had to survive till the end.

In Aliens it quite simply would have been implausible if the marines were unable to kill a single Alien. Therefore it necessitated that there be many of them. The circumstance of marines and guns being involved was itself necessitated by the fact that you couldn't otherwise have Ripley involved again. The only reason she went back to LV-426 was because she was in a company of soldiers.

So there was a logical progression of story from Alien into Aliens and I think people overlook that with this common ''bug'' complaint. People are so focussed on what they think the Alien should and shouldn't be. What about the overall story, the character of Ripley? Aliens did a fantastic job there.

 

[James Bond]

It wasn't a "massive plot hole", and had zero bearing on the overall quality of the film, which was excellent.

All movies have convenient stuff like that, even Alien.

I'd say Aliens went "off the rails" when they turned what was once such a horrifying and mysterious creature into a generic space-ant.

Oh, you're one of those then, an Alien Purest. Ok, have fun with that.

The two eggs being on the Sulaco was the reason she ended up on that planet in the first place, not to mention that they were the basis for the entire story.

So yes, it was a massive plot hole and if you don't see that then you have blinders on. Even people who love that film will admit that the open credit scene is ridiculous.

 

[James Bond]

It couldn't be cannon fodder. It was the only Alien in the film, it had to survive till the end.

In Aliens it quite simply would have been implausible if the marines were unable to kill a single Alien. Therefore it necessitated that there be many of them. The circumstance of marines and guns being involved was itself necessitated by the fact that you couldn't otherwise have Ripley involved again. The only reason she went back to LV-426 was because she was in a company of soldiers.

So there was a logical progression of story from Alien into Aliens and I think people overlook that with this common ''bug'' complaint. People are so focussed on what they think the Alien should and shouldn't be. What about the overall story, the character of Ripley? Aliens did a fantastic job there.

Exactly.

 

[Khev]

It couldn't be cannon fodder. It was the only Alien in the film, it had to survive till the end.

Exactly. And how did it survive to the end? Was it some invincible force of nature? No. It survived because no one had any guns. The end. Cameron didn't make the aliens "stupid." No, they were still sneaky and turned off power and pushed elevator buttons and all that. The difference was that Cameron brought guns to a claw fight. And you know what? It didn't matter! The guns didn't keep anyone alive. With guns all the marines were wiped out except Hicks. And he only survived because of Ripley's resourcefulness with a power loader and an air lock.

The xenomorph in ALIEN wasn't invincible either, specific circumstances just came into play to create this "Freudian nightmare" for this one crew. But make no mistake, the alien *needed* those circumstances. It needed those dark corridors. It needed a group of space truckers with no pulse rifles. It wasn't bullet proof, it still got impaled by Ripley's harpoon gun at the end. But that creature plus those circumstances made for a beautiful movie.

Cameron took the same creature and just changed the circumstances in order to allow for a two and a half hour war movie in space. And to me there's always something *more* terrifying about having the cavalry, having the hardware, having the greatest firepower that technology can offer and...as Newt said, it not making any difference.

 

[a-dev]

Exactly. And how did it survive to the end? Was it some invincible force of nature? No. It survived because no one had any guns. The end. Cameron didn't make the aliens "stupid." No, they were still sneaky and turned off power and pushed elevator buttons and all that. The difference was that Cameron brought guns to a claw fight. And you know what? It didn't matter! The guns didn't keep anyone alive. With guns all the marines were wiped out except Hicks. And he only survived because of Ripley's resourcefulness with a power loader and an air lock.

The xenomorph in ALIEN wasn't invincible either, specific circumstances just came into play to create this "Freudian nightmare" for this one crew. But make no mistake, the alien *needed* those circumstances. It needed those dark corridors. It needed a group of space truckers with no pulse rifles. It wasn't bullet proof, it still got impaled by Ripley's harpoon gun at the end. But that creature plus those circumstances made for a beautiful movie.

Cameron took the same creature and just changed the circumstances in order to allow for a two and a half hour war movie in space. And to me there's always something *more* terrifying about having the cavalry, having the hardware, having the greatest firepower that technology can offer and...as Newt said, it not making any difference.

Spoiler

I just, I don't know how anyone couldn't be persuaded by that argument. I wanna print that out and bring it around with me so as to always be prepared for this exact debate away from the internet.

 

[Xenoburger_]

Oh, you're one of those then, an Alien Purest. Ok, have fun with that.

The two eggs being on the Sulaco was the reason she ended up on that planet in the first place, not to mention that they were the basis for the entire story.

So yes, it was a massive plot hole and if you don't see that then you have blinders on. Even people who love that film will admit that the open credit scene is ridiculous.

If I was an "Alien purist" I wouldn't be here defending Alien 3, genius. Think before you type.

I love the entire alien franchise, even Resurrection. I'm just tired of all the butt hurt whinebags who claim to be fans of the franchise, but really only like Aliens and think it's "teh greatest thing evar" and endlessly bash Alien 3 because their ADD won't allow them to watch a great film that doesn't have a) a dozen cheesy dialogue-spouting marine badasses with big guns, b) a hundred new generic aliens with the big "boss" alien at the end or c), a & b having an all-out war.

And no, it still wasn't a massive plot hole. I don't think there's been anything established that states those eggs couldn't possibly have been there.

The queen alien using the elevator is just as if not more ridiculous than that, and neither "issues" take away from the films.

 

[Xenoburger_]

It couldn't be cannon fodder. It was the only Alien in the film, it had to survive till the end.

In Aliens it quite simply would have been implausible if the marines were unable to kill a single Alien. Therefore it necessitated that there be many of them. The circumstance of marines and guns being involved was itself necessitated by the fact that you couldn't otherwise have Ripley involved again. The only reason she went back to LV-426 was because she was in a company of soldiers.

So there was a logical progression of story from Alien into Aliens and I think people overlook that with this common ''bug'' complaint. People are so focussed on what they think the Alien should and shouldn't be. What about the overall story, the character of Ripley? Aliens did a fantastic job there.

Exactly. And how did it survive to the end? Was it some invincible force of nature? No. It survived because no one had any guns. The end. Cameron didn't make the aliens "stupid." No, they were still sneaky and turned off power and pushed elevator buttons and all that. The difference was that Cameron brought guns to a claw fight. And you know what? It didn't matter! The guns didn't keep anyone alive. With guns all the marines were wiped out except Hicks. And he only survived because of Ripley's resourcefulness with a power loader and an air lock.

The xenomorph in ALIEN wasn't invincible either, specific circumstances just came into play to create this "Freudian nightmare" for this one crew. But make no mistake, the alien *needed* those circumstances. It needed those dark corridors. It needed a group of space truckers with no pulse rifles. It wasn't bullet proof, it still got impaled by Ripley's harpoon gun at the end. But that creature plus those circumstances made for a beautiful movie.

Cameron took the same creature and just changed the circumstances in order to allow for a two and a half hour war movie in space. And to me there's always something *more* terrifying about having the cavalry, having the hardware, having the greatest firepower that technology can offer and...as Newt said, it not making any difference.

Spoiler

I just, I don't know how anyone couldn't be persuaded by that argument. I wanna print that out and bring it around with me so as to always be prepared for this exact debate away from the internet.

Of course the Xenomorphs in Aliens were still a great threat, and took out quite a few marines, but Cameron made them into relatable bugs. The whole "alien" element was lost. They became familiar. They were identical to creatures we have here on Earth, just bigger and deadlier. Was that where the franchise needed to go? I don't think so. It's a great movie, but the more I watch it the more I realize it wasn't great for Alien. It fits better with Starship Troopers. Hell, it practically is a darker Starship Troopers.

"Impaled" is quite a stretch. The harpoon looked like it just barely penetrated or got caught on one of the alien's boney protrusions. There was no noticeable wound and there was no acid blood. You weren't entirely sure if this creature could even be killed. After all, Ash did tell them that. Fast forward eight years and we have a shotgun blowing chunks out of them and trucks running them over.

If the logical thing to do with the otherworldly and seemingly invincible alien is to put it into a Starship Troopers-esque situation where they're getting blown and burned to bits (which I don't think it is), then maybe we should keep those two ideas separate.

 

[a-dev]

The similarities to the T1 VS T2 argument are uncanny here. ''It's a great movie but was a 'good guy' one-liner spouting T-800 really where the franchise needed to go''

Maybe not but then don't make a sequel. Just leave it at the original, one and done. Or try to do the exact same thing again and be dismissed for your lack of originality.

 

[GasparZizou]

I'm not about to bash Aliens to defend on Alien 3, or the other way around, but Xeno makes some very interesting points about making the Aliens bugs, good debate.

 

[Xenoburger_]

The similarities to the T1 VS T2 argument are uncanny here. ''It's a great movie but was a 'good guy' one-liner spouting T-800 really where the franchise needed to go''

No, it certainly wasn't where it needed to go. Death to T2.