Official Carnotaurus Maquette Picture Thread

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Agent-
"Torture porn" refers to movies that entertain sadistic curiosities through the use of violent torture scenes. "Saw" springs immediately to mind.

Scar-
I also tend to use "tyrannosaurs" as the plural form. I know "-i" might seem like correct Latin (I took four years of it myself) but you must admit, it sounds absolutely atrocious when applied to dinosaur names, like something that tumbled aimlessly from one's mouth. Here's a good one: what's the best way to identify Carnotaurus in the plural?
 
Ah, I'm not big on horror movies so I didn't realize they were getting more violent in the sense that they're doing torture stuff now. I'm too squeamish for that stuff.
 
Agent-
"Torture porn" refers to movies that entertain sadistic curiosities through the use of violent torture scenes. "Saw" springs immediately to mind.

Scar-
I also tend to use "tyrannosaurs" as the plural form. I know "-i" might seem like correct Latin (I took four years of it myself) but you must admit, it sounds absolutely atrocious when applied to dinosaur names, like something that tumbled aimlessly from one's mouth. Here's a good one: what's the best way to identify Carnotaurus in the plural?

I too find such horror films loathsome. It's a pity that the genre of horror has devolved to pure, bile-inducing disgust. The SAW films signaled the end times for the genre, in my opinion.

I don't believe the Latin sounds atrocious, but I prefer not to use it unless absolutely essential or to make the terminology somewhat more palatable for those who aren't in the field.

Once when responding to a rebuttal of mine to one of her paper critiques, my former English Composition professor and head of my undergrad honors program wrote a note atop the cover page in defense of her contention that I use the Latin forms correctly; at the time, I was stipulating that prehistoric fauna needn't adhere to the Latin rules in order to maintain their merit. Her response was the following:

"Whenever you dedicate yourself completely to the study of one academic discipline, students of other, equally valid schools of thought will uncover reason to deem you at fault... no matter how learned your peers may find you."

I have numerous quotes, poems, and notes taped about my mirror, and this is indeed among them. I acquiesced to her critique, and can understand why such adjustments are done, given that prehistoric species don't fit within our modern conceptualization of pluralizing grouped fauna. It's another "You say potato..." sort of notion. You can't ever hope to please every member of your intended audience. Hell, I argued for well over 2 weeks with that professor, but rather than piss her off I was excused from her class with an A half-way through the semester and found myself invited to faculty luncheons for the remainder of my four years. Some disputes are literally irresolvable, but if you learn to respect the other party in the argument, boons may arrive by the boatful. :D
 
"Whenever you dedicate yourself completely to the study of one academic discipline, students of other, equally valid schools of thought will uncover reason to deem you at fault... no matter how learned your peers may find you."

Wow, that really sounds like petty dogmatism on your prof's part. I would submit the late great Stephen Jay Gould's assertion as a foil in her area of expertise:

The more important the subject and the closer it cuts to the bone of our hopes and needs, the more we are likely to err in establishing a framework for analysis.

She should have accepted your usage within the context of your discipline. To critique it like that demonstrates a narrow parochialism which I've encountered with faculty before - sometimes to my gpa grief. Ivory tower elitism is the buzzword these days.
 
Wow, that really sounds like petty dogmatism on your prof's part. I would submit the late great Stephen Jay Gould's assertion as a foil in her area of expertise:

The more important the subject and the closer it cuts to the bone of our hopes and needs, the more we are likely to err in establishing a framework for analysis.

She should have accepted your usage within the context of your discipline. To critique it like that demonstrates a narrow parochialism which I've encountered with faculty before - sometimes to my gpa grief. Ivory tower elitism is the buzzword these days.

Oh she did have a fine point, and the more I considered her point of view, the less myopic it seemed. :lol Gould also said, "Look in the mirror, and don't be tempted to equate transient domination with either intrinsic superiority or prospects for extended survival." However well I thought I was doing in her course, it was only halfway through the semester at the time, and the ball was firmly in her court; I had no illusions that she could erode my grade rather steadily if I fought her with dedication and vitriol. The other (science) courses for which I used that paper, were where my intended usage had its place. For her course I had to conform to her standards, which isn't asking a lot, being that she accepted my framework is suitable in a scientific context. We came to a fine accord, and it plainly boiled down to her criteria not being based on science but on coherence for a broad-spectrum audience, among other largely trivial aspects such as format and structure. Otherwise I have no doubt that back then she would probably have hung my ass out to dry in both her course and the honors program respectively. Monthly dinner and a movie night with the honors department faculty and a few other students was a much better alternative. :lol Nice lady and positively brilliant; I can name very few individuals whom I believe to be truly intellectually gifted - she was irrefutably brilliant. The woman gave my sister a C in her course and treated her like a plebeian in the honors program ten years before me, but loved me because I'm, and I quote, "a stubborn, critical, sarcastic pain in the ass". No faulting her, every teacher has his or her standards for grading, and the student has to adhere. Wow... even this I can ramble about. :monkey1


At any rate, the "torture porn" movies are positively atrocious. How I yearn for a return to the thinking man's horror film... such as Silence of the Lambs.
 
I had a few run-ins with my honors program English professor. But I was too thick headed to back down so I left the program. Glad I did too. I don't think I could have gotten along with the intellectually arrogant faculty.
 
Agent-
...what's the best way to identify Carnotaurus in the plural?

Sorry I glossed over this before, Dan. Honestly, my personal preference is "Carnotaurs", which received a good deal of venom in many circles when Disney's Dinosaur was released, for reasons unknown, save for the possibility that they never said "Carnotaurus" and in the singular also said "Carnotaur", which by my book is also fine. People get far too persnickety about these things. Oh, and expect a PM soon regarding Dinosauria exclusives, as soon as I have the time to send it! ;)
 
Hm, I never noticed that. I don't think I could endure that film again, though, at least not with the audio turned on. Now that I think about it, that movie did have some pretty good audio design. They captured a certain ferocity among the herbivores that is so often ignored in other media.

I think Sideshow deserves considerable credit for choosing Carnotaurus over other species. Disney or not, it is a fairly weird beast. Like a Cretaceous bulldog.
 
Hm, I never noticed that. I don't think I could endure that film again, though, at least not with the audio turned on. Now that I think about it, that movie did have some pretty good audio design. They captured a certain ferocity among the herbivores that is so often ignored in other media.

I think Sideshow deserves considerable credit for choosing Carnotaurus over other species. Disney or not, it is a fairly weird beast. Like a Cretaceous bulldog.

I wish that Disney had listened to Ricardo Delgado and gone with his notion of having the herbivore herd cross an estuary, where many would have been dragged beneath the surface and consumed by Tylosaurs.:rock I would have loved that scene added in. The movie would have been quite enjoyable sans the speaking, the lemurs, and the Iguanodon lips. I understand why the creators thought they needed those aspects, but the film could have been rearranged to work without them; only difference then is that it wouldn't have landed as well among children, probably. Other than those angles, the movie was rather bleak and visceral for the most part. The Carnotaurs hauling live dinosaurs away from the herd, often consuming them on-camera; the Velociraptors raking their claws into the main character and attempting to gouge out chunks of flesh with their teeth; herbivores gradually dying of thirst and heat stroke as they search for their collective nesting grounds. Much of it was rather enjoyable in that regard. But I won't even bother to justify what many have already rightly pointed out to be its flaws.

I couldn't agree more. The Carnotaurus is a welcome addition to my collection, and of all theropod dinosaurs, it is one of the most bizarre and concurrently fascinating.
 
Hmm, maybe I need to see that movie... Sounds like it may not be as bad as I originally thought. Mostly I never watched it because I was pissed at Disney for moving away from traditional animation. :lol Well that and the few previous movies they did weren't that great either. I just didn't care for...oh, wait...this is a dinosaria thread not a Disney one so I'll stop there...
 
Having this piece in hand really shows how bizarre Carnotaurus really was. Greg Paul pointed out how slender the lower jaws were despite a robust skull overall. Looking at the skull, the eyes were pointed out as small for a theropod too, which isn't helped much by the orbital bar. He further speculated that this may have been to reduce eye damage during butting matches with rival males. The deep snout might have had enhanced nasal organs.

I always wondered if the smaller eyes was an adaptation to particular lighting conditions; or if the weakly constructed skull meant that it was some sort of ambush predator that didn't tackle its prey head on?

Disney is a case of having the right tools and talent, but shackled with a business model incompatible with ever producing something that would terrify kiddies at the matinee no matter how cool and scientifically plausible it would be.
 
Funny, I also recently wondered how great that film would have been if it had been made as a silent film. If there's any subject matter popular enough to allow room for such a bold venture, it's dinosaurs, no?

As far as theropods go, I don't think the Carnotaurus necessarily had a weak skull, just probably not a super-strong bite. The head, to my untrained eyes, looks like it could certainly take a beating. It is relatively small, though. The forward-facing eyes, the long neck, the whole creature just seems very specialized, but we aren't sure what it was specialized to do, exactly. Also, we've got skin impressions of the beast, so that's awesome.
 
Having this piece in hand really shows how bizarre Carnotaurus really was. Greg Paul pointed out how slender the lower jaws were despite a robust skull overall. Looking at the skull, the eyes were pointed out as small for a theropod too, which isn't helped much by the orbital bar. He further speculated that this may have been to reduce eye damage during butting matches with rival males. The deep snout might have had enhanced nasal organs.

I always wondered if the smaller eyes was an adaptation to particular lighting conditions; or if the weakly constructed skull meant that it was some sort of ambush predator that didn't tackle its prey head on?

As far as theropods go, I don't think the Carnotaurus necessarily had a weak skull, just probably not a super-strong bite. The head, to my untrained eyes, looks like it could certainly take a beating. It is relatively small, though. The forward-facing eyes, the long neck, the whole creature just seems very specialized, but we aren't sure what it was specialized to do, exactly. Also, we've got skin impressions of the beast, so that's awesome.

You're actually both correct. Dorsally, the skull was quite strong, but ventrally it simply wasn't very robust. There's a lot of heavy, layered calcification across the entire dorsal surface of the skull, similar to that seen in cresting the orbitals of older Tyrannosaurs. it was long considered by to have been an adaptation possibly with conspecific rivals, but more recent evidence points in a new and exciting direction.

The horns of Carnotaurus were corneous and had keratinous coverings, similar to extant bovids. In short, the horns of Carnotaurus would have continued growing with age and, as you can see in the SS piece, tend to begin to bow inwards over the years in a "U" shape. Also intriguing is that the muscular of Carnotaurus was definitely capable of shock-absorption, but when taking a lateral blow not only the epaxial musculature, but the entirety of the side musculature would have been involved. This means that with side-long blows with its horns, Carnotaurus would have been capable of dealing positively devastating damage to small prey animals, utilizing the strongest region of its skull and maximizing muscle use. Take all of these factors into account, and you quite likely have the first known carnivore to use its horns in order to obtain prey.

Also, for however weak the skull is ventrally, it makes up for its modest bite strength by having an extremely kinetic skull. The premaxilla is capable of rotating upward, the maxilla outward, and the glut of sutures in the mandible allow for it to stretch and bow outwards like a python devouring a small mammal. Another factor taken into account is the origin and insertion points of the adductor muscles, which when analyzed demonstrate that Carnotaurus would have been capable of delivering fast bites as opposed to strong ones; quick, slashing bites, accumulating blood loss in prey items for an easier coup de grace.

Taking into account that the tibia and fibula lengths are quite long as compared to the femur, and we can determine that the Carnotaurus was built for sprinting at an accelerated pace, particularly for an animal its size. We can then piece together a fairly accurate model of how the Carnotaurus lived and hunted: running down small prey, outpacing them and goring them with its horns by vicious side-long glances; taking very quick, slashing bites; and finally devouring the small creatures whole as its skull expanded to accommodate the large meal.

Carnotaurus is an immensely fascinating animal, and I'm thrilled that SS has chosen this theropod in particular for the first maquette. Truly awe-inspiring. :rock
 
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I didn't know the horns had been assigned an offensive value; what evidence is this based on?

The attrition tactics do seem likely, though. This is similar to what has been suggested for Allosaurus, which could open its jaws very widely and take repeated bites out of larger prey, possibly to wear it down, or possibly to feed on whatever it could rip off, allowing the animal to heal so that it could be used for later feeding. This is different from the massive jaws of a tyrannosaur, which rather than slashing quickly through, would punch right into the flesh and bone. Then you've got the conical teeth of piscivorous spinosaurids, but that's a whole other ball game.
 
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I wish that Disney had listened to Ricardo Delgado and gone with his notion of having the herbivore herd cross an estuary, where many would have been dragged beneath the surface and consumed by Tylosaurs.:rock

Speaking of Tylosaurs, I hope SS will consider making one of these giant reptiles of the prehistoric sea for the Dinosauria line.

The Carnotauraus is amazing and I can't wait for the Styracosaurus. I cancelled my T-Rex pre-order because the high international shipping cost is really putting a squeeze on my online purchases from SS. Anyone knows of any US retailer who carry the Dinosauria line and can offer me cheaper shipping option? :naughty
 
Me. Send me a PM if you're interested. :)

Also, I think a Tylosaurus scene like that would have been way too scary for the kids. The concept of a huge, serpentine sea monster lurking beneath the water is really the stuff of nightmares. I'll stick to my Carnegie Tylosaurus, thank you very much. :D

Tylocarn.jpg
 
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