Presidential Debate Tonight - Obama vs. McCain.... DING, DING, DING

[Mesa]

Speaking of First Ammendment Rights. About 2 weeks ago a kid wore an anti-Obama t-shirt to school and got suspended for it. I'm sure my fellow freaks will join me in e-mailing the school to voice our outrage at his suspension, and loss of his First Ammendment Rights.

send me the contact info. I can at least send an email. Easier than standing up and saying the pledge.

 

[The Josh]

This is just silly Josh.

Weren't you taught as a kid in school to put your hand over your heart during the Pledge of Allegiance? And the same in the military, except salute while in uniform. We're only like 5 or 6 years apart, I don't think the education system changed that much in that short amount of time; today may be another story.

It's not my belief, it's an accepted tradition that has been around for years.


Seriously, is it just me that feels this way? Where did you guys go to school? Weren't you taught proper flag etiquette to show respect, never let it touch the ground, only time acceptable to burn a flag is when you retire it. Didn't anyone ever participate in color guard or were a member of scouts?


I can't believe I'm alone here. Probably explains why Obama is leading the poles.

You really are good at questioning how people where brought up. You sir are a definite republican.

We still do the pledge here at school. As a matter of fact in a little less than an hour I'll be doing it again. Hand over my heart.

Its a tradition but I don't question someone patriotism if they don't put their hand over their heart for either. I think its up to that person if they choose not to and how they choose to show it in other ways.

Speaking of First Ammendment Rights. About 2 weeks ago a kid wore an anti-Obama t-shirt to school and got suspended for it. I'm sure my fellow freaks will join me in e-mailing the school to voice our outrage at his suspension, and loss of his First Ammendment Rights.

If it was just something that said don't vote for Obama then I think its wrong. Now, if it had words on it you should say at school or something to that effect then they had cause.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I love how in my mega post I know I make several valid rebuttals/points to what Spartan said but nobody from the other side wanted to touch them. Instead we change the subject to Obama/Flag stuff. I'm not shocked the right has to change topics when they have nothing to stand on.

 

[devilof76]

I'm actually not a fan of the Pledge of Allegiance. I don't think it belongs in our schools, and I don't agree with the reasons it was originally adopted.

But the Anthem is a whole other story.

 

[Mesa]

You really are good at questioning how people where brought up. You sir are a definite republican.

We still do the pledge here at school. As a matter of fact in a little less than an hour I'll be doing it again. Hand over my heart.

Its a tradition but I don't question someone patriotism if they don't put their hand over their heart for either. I think its up to that person if they choose not to and how they choose to show it in other ways.

I think my words were something to the effect of "I guess I was just raised differently". I'm not insulting your background, your roots, your parents or your family values. Just an observation that I was taught to repect the flag and that tradition carried on into my adult life. If you want to be super sensitive over the issue, go ahead.

If it was just something that said don't vote for Obama then I think its wrong. Now, if it had words on it you should say at school or something to that effect then they had cause.

Now you want to contradict yourself and say limiting free speech is okay if someone chooses to where a "Don't Vote for Obama" shirt?

I love how in my mega post I know I make several valid rebuttals/points to what Spartan said but nobody from the other side wanted to touch them. Instead we change the subject to Obama/Flag stuff. I'm not shocked the right has to change topics when they have nothing to stand on.

I would love to read whatever this mega post you are referring to and address it since apparently I have nothing to stand on. I looked and couldn't find it. And don't give me that excuse about changing the topic, this thread has been ALL OVER the spectrum, from flags, to abortion, to Palin interviews, to everything.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Mesa now has 89 posts in this thread.. And I have 56. We really are crazy.

And Scott, what Josh was saying was that your post seemed to say that you were shocked that we didn't follow the traditions you hold so dear as closely as you do. And that Obama is leading the polls because of a similar lack in traditions throughout America. That it was perhaps our upbringing or lack thereof that caused us to do so.

 

[DarthNeil]

At least you guys are keeping it (relatively) civil- which I, as a Canadian moderator (and hence peace-keeper), appreciate.

 

[DarkArtist81]

At least you guys are keeping it (relatively) civil- which I, as a Canadian moderator (and hence peace-keeper), appreciate.

I think we have good people here, on both sides. And it's all in the language you choose, in which to communicate your ideas.

 

[hoodonit00]

At least you guys are keeping it (relatively) civil- which I, as a Canadian moderator (and hence peace-keeper), appreciate.

OH YEA. WELL JOSH IS A.....just kidding

 

[DarkArtist81]

OH YEA. WELL JOSH IS A.....just kidding

 

[FQRizzo]

OH YEA. WELL JOSH IS A.....just kidding

Well...hoodonit00, Mesa, and Spartan Rex are a bunch of...

Spoiler

...board members.

 

[Mesa]

Mesa now has 89 posts in this thread.. And I have 56. We really are crazy.

And Scott, what Josh was saying was that your post seemed to say that you were shocked that we didn't follow the traditions you hold so dear as closely as you do. And that Obama is leading the polls because of a similar lack in traditions throughout America. That it was perhaps our upbringing or lack thereof that caused us to do so.

Well, putting it this way, then yes, that is how I feel. Except the lack of upbringing part, that sounds harsh and I'm not questioing how you were raised in other aspects, just focussed on this one. It's a personal choice and freedom as we've already established, but I expect my leader to follow this tradition whole-heartedly.

 

[pixletwin]

Truth is God is mad because McCain didn't choose a mormon so he has brought a curse upon the republican party in the form of warts, boils, and Sarah Palin... True story.

Your theology is suspect to say the least.

Lighten up Spartan Rex it was a joke.

 

[The Josh]

I think my words were something to the effect of "I guess I was just raised differently". I'm not insulting your background, your roots, your parents or your family values. Just an observation that I was taught to repect the flag and that tradition carried on into my adult life. If you want to be super sensitive over the issue, go ahead.

Well your post came across as we where raised wrong and you where raised perfectly.

Now you want to contradict yourself and say limiting free speech is okay if someone chooses to where a "Don't Vote for Obama" shirt?

I'm not contradicting myself. I know here if a kid had a don't vote for obama shirt he'd be allowed to wear it. If it had something that would detract from the learning process he'd be told to take it off and if they didn't a punishment would be handed out. Thats how things work in schools.

I would love to read whatever this mega post you are referring to and address it since apparently I have nothing to stand on. I looked and couldn't find it. And don't give me that excuse about changing the topic, this thread has been ALL OVER the spectrum, from flags, to abortion, to Palin interviews, to everything.

I'll repost it here.

I don't put my hand over my heart during the NA. Does that make me unpatriotic?

His associations with ayers is nothing more than serving on a few boards together and this guy has a history with some repubs as well. What the guy did 40 years ago are not good but I have a feeling McCain has a few of these types in his woodshed.

The stuff with Tony Rezko is a bit shady. Its an issue I'd like him not to have but I don't know a person in Washington or Politics in general that doesn't have one. You cannot say that the other side of the isle doesn't have their fair share either.

His pastor is a piece of work. A complete douche bag and again I'm glad Obama did the right thing and dropped the guy. I've got an uncle that that preaches and is a bit racist in some of his remarks. Is that an indictment of me? I mean come on just because you listen to someone doesn't mean thats who you are.

Ah raising taxes. He wants to raise taxes on folks making 250k or more a year. How many of us does that actually hit here? I doubt too many if any at all. You will actually get more money back based on his tax plan. It also in the long run will help how things are going contrary to what McCain's plan which has shown will only make things worse.

Being liberal is BFD item. Its no worse than being a Conservative. I don't find being a liberal a bad thing.

Some defenitions for ya

favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.

favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers

So I have no problem with him being liberal.

Michell's comments where taken out of context and cut down so the right could play games. I know that shocks ya doesn't it.

"For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback."

She also said it like this later the same night

"For the first time in my adult lifetime, I'm really proud of my country, and not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change."[

So you tell me whats wrong with either of those. I see nothing at all and I actually agree. I'm proud for the first time in a long time this country is saying enough.

Not only is your quote wrong like what the wonderful right not knowing what they're talking about and twisting crap.

He's bad for being an Ivy League lawyer? Is that supposed to be bad? He went to a nice school and got a great degree. I have no problem with that. Do you? Are you jealous he did something you couldn't? I could go on but I digress.

I'm I live in a small town in the middle of the country and this comment is dead on. People in the MW tend to be very tied to their guns and religion when things get tough.

Here's the quote.

You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Coming out of Chicago is no worse than anything that was stolen in the last two Presidential Elections.

Thats just off the top of my head.

Not putting your hand over your heart isnt unpatriotic, however add that to his association with Bill Ayers a known terrorist, his America hating pastor,Tony Riesco ties,the 3rd most liberal senator in congress, wanting to raise taxes, Michelle's "For the first time proud to be an American..."comment, being a Ivy league lawyer, tells a S.F. crowd that "bitter small town americans cling to guns or religion", no history of bipartisan ship, comes out of the historically corrupt Chicago political machine.....take that sum total and this guy stinks to high heaven.


Thats just off the top of my head.

Well, putting it this way, then yes, that is how I feel. Except the lack of upbringing part, that sounds harsh and I'm not questioing how you were raised in other aspects, just focussed on this one. It's a personal choice and freedom as we've already established, but I expect my leader to follow this tradition whole-heartedly.

You shouldn't be questioning how I was raised at all and should probably mind your own business as far as that goes.

 

[Bannister]

Speaking of First Ammendment Rights. About 2 weeks ago a kid wore an anti-Obama t-shirt to school and got suspended for it. I'm sure my fellow freaks will join me in e-mailing the school to voice our outrage at his suspension, and loss of his First Ammendment Rights.

https://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/23/fifth-grader-suspended-for-wearing-anti-obama-shirt/

 

[Shatterer of Dreams]

you know whats funny is that last time i checked Bush does all those patriotic things that we apparently demand of our leader. My question is how exactly has that made him a better leader?

This guy has done everything under the sun to look like the most patriotic jack a$$ who walks amongst us and yet he has the worst presidency in the history of the country.

So moral of this story is putting your hand over your heart or taking your hat off to salute the flag is irrelevant to running the country.

 

[Bannister]

you know whats funny is that last time i checked Bush does all those patriotic things that we apparently demand of our leader. My question is how exactly has that made him a better leader?

This guy has done everything under the sun to look like the most patriotic jack a$$ who walks amongst us and yet he has the worst presidency in the history of the country.

So moral of this story is putting your hand over your heart or taking your hat off to salute the flag is irrelevant to running the country.

But at least he was raised right.

 

[The Josh]

you know whats funny is that last time i checked Bush does all those patriotic things that we apparently demand of our leader. My question is how exactly has that made him a better leader?

This guy has done everything under the sun to look like the most patriotic jack a$$ who walks amongst us and yet he has the worst presidency in the history of the country.

So moral of this story is putting your hand over your heart or taking your hat off to salute the flag is irrelevant to running the country.

Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!

 

[Shatterer of Dreams]

But at least he was raised right.

 

[Shatterer of Dreams]

Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!

What kind of chicken dinner?

 

[The Josh]

What kind of chicken dinner?

Its your choice. You won.