Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16) *SPOILERS*

[SNIKT1950]

McDiarmid is superb in the PT. He steals those movies.

 

[jye4ever]

That he is and did.

I'll give the PT one thing, the soundtracks in all 3 of them destroy TFA/RO.

 

[Wor-Gar]

'Duel of the Fates' is pure ADD madness.

Start humming it and it'll take 3 hours to get out of your head.

 

[SNIKT1950]

The ROTS score in particular is riveting. The track that plays as Anakin slaughters the Separatists and Palpatine rises as Emperor is Star Wars perfection.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Well I watched the PT this weekend.

I can't believe i'm going to say this but I was actually entertained by the wackiness of ROTS just because McDiarmid elevates any scene he's in.

Ummm...what else what else....

Anakin's pre Vader costume and hair style are bad ass.

Ummm...

Yeah those 2 things. Also during the opera scene Palpatine looked right at Anakin when he said that Darth Plagueis figured out a way to create life, was he implying that Plagueis created Anakin?

AOTC Portman is smoking hot!

TPM....painful even with the Maul battle.

Maul's 10 second balcony scene with Palpatine is awesome.

At last we will reveal this crappy movie to the public.

I like the Jedi/sith fights. Yoda vs Palp, Palp vs Jedi group, and Anakin vs Obi, with the exception of the big tower collapsing and those little hovering things they were on towards the end of the fight. It was like some kind of Mario game. Still, I always wanted to see Vader's transformation and I think when he gets the costume and speaks for the first time it was very cool...until the "nooooo!" part. Also, the last Vader/Palp scene and the desert scene with the two suns was a good ending.

 

[amvmm]

That final Vader scene was memorable!

 

[Aliaz]

How can anyone like the Palpatine vs Jedi group fight?

 

[Futurion]

Rewatched ROTJ this morning, few observations and questions.

Wonder why Luke never asked Obi-Wan about his mother, wasn't he the least bit interested? How about his grandmother or gasp his grandfather! Go ahead and try to explain that one Obi-Wan lol.

It's not like Obi-Wan was in a rush to leave that rock lol.

Leia and her BS that she remembered her mom being sad...unless Bail told her about her mom which is highly possible.

I can now comfortably say that the space battle in RO is better (honestly how could it not be) but the music during the ROTJ space battle is much greater and it goes along way in making it seem more epic than it really is.

So Vader holding back on Luke during their fight was because he was already conflicted?

If he was conflicted why didn't he just say "Now Luke, attack the Emperor with me!"

Because RO Vader is a beast next to ROTJ Vader.

Will the same rationale used for ANH also apply for ROTJ?

Because Lucas is a terribke story teller and writer.

About Vader in ROTJ - he was afraid of Emperor. He didn't want to kill Luke. And he wasn't on the light side till Palpatin almost killed Luke, then he turned.


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[Darkseed]

How can anyone like the Palpatine vs Jedi group fight?

Fair point...two masters taken out in 10 secs. It played out better in the novel.

 

[Khev]

My fav moment -- its so brutal yet totally underplayed.

You're right, the underplayed part is what made it perfect.

Great point guys. The movie treated that move as neither the most brutal nor noteworthy thing that Vader was capable of, and that made it all the more gruesome.

Before TFA came out I said it was going to get great reviews and that people would call it the best SW film since ESB, but that in a few years, in retrospect, that opinion would change. I didn't anticipate for it to happen so fast to be honest

TFA will always be a better made film than ROTJ, I don't see the critical consensus on that ever changing. ROTJ is saved by stellar production design and music, so in that regard it's similar to Batman 89. But pretty much all other aspects of filmmaking (script, acting, cinematography, visual effects) goes to TFA.

PT bashing is a massive internet bandwagon that didn't exist ten years ago.

Not exactly true. I've been on Usenet since before the Special Editions, and I saw the pounding that the prequels took with each release. The difference was that there really wasn't a precedent for such bad SW films so many, myself included, were in a good deal of denial about just HOW bad they were. Even with TPM the consensus was that Jar Jar, Kid Anakin, midichlorians and Pod Racers like Ben Quadinaros outright sucked and collectively they were major elements of the narrative and new mythology.

I saw AOTC twice opening weekend and both times the audience was absolutely guffawing at many of Anakin and Padme's scenes together. Now there WERE also cheers when Yoda lit up his saber, that was a fun moment to experience for the first time. But after a few viewings the stupidity of even that scene reared its ugly head and never let go.

ROTS benefited *greatly* by comparison to the other two films and lifelong fans were so desperate to love SW again many clung to that film. Even now if you can force yourself to sit through TPM and AOTC then ROTS plays somewhat well. But watch ROTS in a vacuum or after a *good* movie? It's difficult to sit through. It does have a great opening scroll (love the "War! There are heroes on both sides, evil is everywhere" bits" and great music though and Hayden Christensen does look cool as a pre-Vader Jedi. Ewan carries every scene he's in (poor guy) but overall there's more bad then good.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I sometimes forget there's a generation already grown that doesn't know a world without the internet.... and likewise that group sometimes forgets there was a wide world long before the internet and somehow opinions formed even then.

In fact, 1999 and 2002 were still in that dark time before the entire world was plugged in the way we think today. I think the younger ones have no way to truly understand that world before, no record of it other than what people have planted about it in the last 20 years in things like Wikipedia. Now people get their 'world view' of something like Star Wars from Rotten Tomatoes and fan sites like this.

Regarding TFA: This is a moment in time... and opinions will change over time. Some day, TFA will seem as hokey as ROTJ once the modern effects fade and style changes.

 

[Khev]

Should be no surprise, MM is a phenomenal actor, as are most of the main cast. Ben mendelsohn's been around mostly in Australia for years, and has an impressive body of work. I recommend him in Animal Kingdom.

Mendelsohn did a fantastic job as well. I'd say he's among my top favorite Imperial Officers in the saga along with Tarkin, Piett, and Veers.

 

[Khev]

So jye if RO does Hunger Games numbers of $400+ mil domestic and $800+ mil worldwide (which it seems on pace with) will Disney be happy with their "experimental" SW film or consider it a financial failure? Is everything from here on out a billion or bust?

 

[jye4ever]

Great point guys. The movie treated that move as neither the most brutal nor noteworthy thing that Vader was capable of, and that made it all the more gruesome.



TFA will always be a better made film than ROTJ, I don't see the critical consensus on that ever changing. ROTJ is saved by stellar production design and music, so in that regard it's similar to Batman 89. But pretty much all other aspects of filmmaking (script, acting, cinematography, visual effects) goes to TFA.



Not exactly true. I've been on Usenet since before the Special Editions, and I saw the pounding that the prequels took with each release. The difference was that there really wasn't a precedent for such bad SW films so many, myself included, were in a good deal of denial about just HOW bad they were. Even with TPM the consensus was that Jar Jar, Kid Anakin, midichlorians and Pod Racers like Ben Quadinaros outright sucked and collectively they were major elements of the narrative and new mythology.

I saw AOTC twice opening weekend and both times the audience was absolutely guffawing at many of Anakin and Padme's scenes together. Now there WERE also cheers when Yoda lit up his saber, that was a fun moment to experience for the first time. But after a few viewings the stupidity of even that scene reared its ugly head and never let go.

ROTS benefited *greatly* by comparison to the other two films and lifelong fans were so desperate to love SW again many clung to that film. Even now if you can force yourself to sit through TPM and AOTC then ROTS plays somewhat well. But watch ROTS in a vacuum or after a *good* movie? It's difficult to sit through. It does have a great opening scroll (love the "War! There are heroes on both sides, evil is everywhere" bits" and great music though and Hayden Christensen does look cool as a pre-Vader Jedi. Ewan carries every scene he's in (poor guy) but overall there's more bad then good.

Well said (as usual).

The "heroes on both sides" always made my laugh.

No there wasn't lol.

I sometimes forget there's a generation already grown that doesn't know a world without the internet.... and likewise that group sometimes forgets there was a wide world long before the internet and somehow opinions formed even then.

In fact, 1999 and 2002 were still in that dark time before the entire world was plugged in the way we think today. I think the younger ones have no way to truly understand that world before, no record of it other than what people have planted about it in the last 20 years in things like Wikipedia. Now people get their 'world view' of something like Star Wars from Rotten Tomatoes and fan sites like this.

Yikes.

So jye if RO does Hunger Games numbers of $400+ mil domestic and $800+ mil worldwide (which it seems on pace with) will Disney be happy with their "experimental" SW film or consider it a financial failure? Is everything from here on out a billion or bust?

If Carrie Fishes leaves us this movie will make much more than expected.

 

[a-dev]

The "heroes on both sides" always made me laugh.

No there wasn't lol.

 

[Khev]

Were their heroes on *either* side?

 

[Victοr]

I just came back from the threatre and I really loved the flick. All the characters were enjoyable, but nobody was really memorable apart from Jyn, you know? They showed promise, and could've been fleshed out more, but I get the decision to off them all. The CGI parts were noticeable to me, but not to my parents, so there's that. Against TFA, I'd say it has better acting, and is of a higher quality, but TFA had the "it's finally here" factor, and the new characters were both fresh and memorable (apart from Rey, who becomes a bigger Mary Sue with each viewing). I'll take RO most of the time, but I don't think TFA is awful. Just... not as good as it should've been.

As for the prequels, well, apart from certain actors they suck. ROTS though I have seen around 20 or 30 times, and I still love it. ****in' fight me!

 

[Ropen]

Yup, still can't get over how dumb Yoda fighting is though. I know Lucas can do better than Disney, but he also can do a lot worse

At the time, that was the "it" sequence


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[SNIKT1950]

How can anyone like the Palpatine vs Jedi group fight?

I loved it.

It was the reveal I'd been waiting to see since I was a kid in the 80s. I used to ask my older brother "Why is Vader afraid of the Emperor?" That scene in ROTS is just a glimpse of how powerful Palps was. He killed three masters in seconds and then toyed with Mace long enough for Anakin to believe Mace had the upper hand.

Not even Yoda could kill Palps and his fight with Palps was a wonderful callback to his warning to Luke - "Do not underestimate the powers of The Emperor, or suffer your Father's fate you will."

People online can bash the PT all they want. I was there for every midnight premiere, hearing crowds applaud lines like Yoda's "If so powerful you are, why leave?" and Obi-Wan's "I will do what I must."

That wasn't "denial" at the time. It was SW fans enjoying SW films without trying to impress one another online with crap like "There are only two SW movies: Star Wars (1977) & ESB."

 

[Khev]

That wasn't "denial" at the time. It was SW fans enjoying SW films without trying to impress one another online with crap like "There are only two SW movies: Star Wars (1977) & ESB."

If you were actually involved in online SW discussion in 1999 then you'd be well aware of how wrong you are. alt.fan.starwars (the most active SW discussion forum) was full of posts and threads like this one from 8/4/99:

21 REASONS WHY "THE PHANTOM MENACE" WAS A FAILURE.

1) Jar Jar Binks

2) No *everyman* to identify with, only Knights, Masters, and queens.

3) The two-headed podrace announcer.

4) Obi-Wan didn't reach Qui-Gonn in time when the opening battle
proved the Jedi could move lightning fast.

5) That high-decibel fart.

6) Almost a hundred dead Battle Droids onscreen but could only count 2
dead Gungans.

7) Over-reliance on special effects, CGI overkill.

8) Non-existent character development.

9) Laughable blooper when Trickster and Anakin's Rodian friend try to
high-five each other but get their cues wrong.

10) Jake Lloyd. "Mom, you say the biggest problem in this universe is
no one helps each other!" Hand me the barf bag.

11) Anakin destroying the Droid control ship merely by accident:
"Oops!"

12) Samuel Jackson's embarrassingly obvious double in the scene where
Amidala greets Palpatine on Naboo.

13) Anakin/Shmi parting scene. What should have been the emotional high
point of the movie instead rings completely false.

14) The Viceroy and their Japanese accents straight from Toho Godzilla
movies.

15) May the Midichlorian Count Be With You.

16) Great actors {Terence Stamp, Liam Neeson, Pernilla August, Ewan
Mcgregor, Natalie Portman, Samuel Jackson} stuck with useless roles and
looking bored out of their minds.

17) No quiet character moments. An Obi-Wan/Anakin scene was sorely
needed.

18) The opening crawl states "....the Supreme Chancellor has dispatched
two Jedi Knights..." Obi-Wan is not yet a Jedi Knight, only a padawan.

19) One of Anakin's friends has braces.

20) Swoop riders, vehicles created for 'Shadows of the Empire,' were
inserted into the Mon Espa scene.

21) Empty soulless movie, made by machines for machines. Has none of
that Star Wars *magic*.

On the good side, the lightsabre duel was cool. That's enough for some
people. I expect more from Star Wars.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.fan.starwars/phantom$20menace$20personal$20canon%7Csort:relevance/alt.fan.starwars/s7HC43oKsMo/xlN_V1oqjf0J

I remember those discussions because I participated in them. Sure there were diehard fans defending every move Lucas made but the bashing was constant and only got worse with Attack of the Clones.

From 5/18/02:

It's Official: Episode II Sucked

[email protected] (James) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Seriously...it is official.

He's right. I checked.

Kevbo wrote:
- show quoted text -
He's MOSTLY right. Better than 1, not as good as the others; and George
Lucas needs to hand over the dialog writing to someone who can do it. The
dialog was crap. Really awful.

That "Kevbo" guy actually wasn't me, in case anyone was wondering. I posted with my real first and last name back in the day.