Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16) *SPOILERS*

[V8Falcon]

TFA reminds me of those songs you hear online that they say was composed entirely and autonomously by a computer program. A product of some code programmed to know what notes and chords appeal to the ear.

On first experience everything seems to be right, but something just doesn't click with you, and as you look closer you start to see a few issues.

Definitely not displeasing, but falls a bit flat. It relies too much on what research says will be enjoyable and less on the natural creative intuition which is missing when profits and marketability are put first.

This!

 

[Khev]

My point all along.
TFA makes every single heroic moment in the entire saga meaningless.

I know that people have been saying this from the beginning but Rogue One finally drove that notion home for me as well. The stakes and sacrifice demand a satisfying resolution to make it all worthwhile and Scarif fulfilled the hope of seeing an OT-quality battle with modern visuals. They could have continued with the saga of Jedi Master Luke with any number of scenarios that did not involve the Empire "coming back." It should have been squashed in the immediate aftermath of ROTJ, the victories of the heroic rebels should have endured, and then some new threat from outside the known galaxy could have presented itself.

And what exactly is the First Order? Disney's ongoing numbering system designating the bad guys of each new trilogy? Will there just be a Second Order, Third Order, 57th Order, etc?

 

[ShadowX81]

And what exactly is the First Order? Disney's ongoing numbering system designating the bad guys of each new trilogy? Will there just be a Second Order, Third Order, 57th Order, etc?

This one actually makes sense to me. Abrams described it as what would happen if all of the Nazis that escaped to South America after WW2 met up, formed a militia, and then slowly started to rebuild.

Of course this doesn't in any way lesson the point you made about it essentially invalidating all the work that the heroes did in the OT.

What I want to know is what exactly is the Resistance. Wouldn't it just be the New Republic Military or something?

 

[Khev]

The Resistance is supposed to be Leia's "Rogue One" team. That being a group of fighters who takes initiative without the official approval of the top leaders of government. Though unlike Rogue One TFA didn't really make much effort to spell that out.

And yeah, I heard Abrams' references to Argentinian Nazis before, I was just poking fun at LFL's choice of evil organization name since it kind of suggests a built in numerical sequence right off the bat.

 

[jye4ever]

I know that people have been saying this from the beginning but Rogue One finally drove that notion home for me as well. The stakes and sacrifice demand a satisfying resolution to make it all worthwhile and Scarif fulfilled the hope of seeing an OT-quality battle with modern visuals. They could have continued with the saga of Jedi Master Luke with any number of scenarios that did not involve the Empire "coming back." It should have been squashed in the immediate aftermath of ROTJ, the victories of the heroic rebels should have endured, and then some new threat from outside the known galaxy could have presented itself.

And what exactly is the First Order? Disney's ongoing numbering system designating the bad guys of each new trilogy? Will there just be a Second Order, Third Order, 57th Order, etc?

I'm not ready to declare E8/9 dry of ideas, I still think that there is a chance for the 32 year gap to be fleshed out in visual detail plus i'm open for another massive ground and air battle and lets not forget Luke, force ghosts, sith history and cameo secrets being kept under wraps!

This one actually makes sense to me. Abrams described it as what would happen if all of the Nazis that escaped to South America after WW2 met up, formed a militia, and then slowly started to rebuild.

Of course this doesn't in any way lesson the point you made about it essentially invalidating all the work that the heroes did in the OT.

What I want to know is what exactly is the Resistance. Wouldn't it just be the New Republic Military or something?

Love your Nazi explanation.

 

[Khev]

I'm not ready to declare E8/9 dry of ideas, I still think that there is a chance for the 32 year gap to be fleshed out in visual detail plus i'm open for another massive ground and air battle and lets not forget Luke, force ghosts, sith history and cameo secrets being kept under wraps!

I agree that LFL has earned my anticipation of Episodes 8 and 9. I'm just leary after the satisfaction of OT + RO and I'm also concerned about a potentially jarring absence of Princess Leia in Episode 9 that hopefully doesn't taint the entire new trilogy.

 

[JAWS]

ROGUE One JAWS. ROGUE One. Let's keep Moulin Rouge out of this. But yeah, pretty much all of my examples above are in direct reference to RO as opposed to TFA.

TFA did give us some brand new things (defecting Stormtrooper, a junk planet, Rey/BB-8/Kylo, rathtars, etc.) but I understand the complaint that it plays like a bit of an "OT's greatest hits" film. But even with that being said some people like to lift up George Lucas simply going off the rails as if it's this paramount achievement in originality at the expense of all that TFA accomplished.

Lets leave my ****** spelling out of this. I rely totally on my computer to fix my spelling. If I spell some other word correctly I am screwed

Khev I actually would be more forgiving of the greatest hits vibe had the set pieces been more thrilling.

I go to these movies to be awed and thrilled, that's all really.

Yep....

Can we change the thread title to the correct spelling please? It's really starting to bug me.

Seriously though, I think I generally agree with what JAWS is saying. I rewatched TFA recently (my third viewing) and honestly it was only 'OK'. Whether I'd put TPM above it I'm less sure about although I do think that's the best the prequels had to offer.

Who knows how I will feel in a few years after other films are released. I am not going to argue with anyone who likes TFA more then TPM. I am just going to try and explain why I do. But I fully understand the hate for TPM or either of the other two PT films.

 

[JAWS]

Then TFA comes along and totally undermines Luke ending the reign of the Sith and all that Jyn Erso's team accomplished. Imagine if Saving Private Ryan was a fictional story and instead of the end being old Ryan at the cemetary he's instead a general giving orders to a fresh new squad of recruits fighting the same damn bad guys in a continuation of the same damn war, decades later. The sacrifices at Omaha Beach and the final stand-off would have been rendered utterly inconsequential.

I thought the same thing when I first saw the film and complained to my friend about it. It is what it is but when I watch the end of Jedi I think "Not so happily ever after"

 

[jye4ever]

I don't think Disney feels any pressure to tread lightly on how to proceed with Leia and it's probably too late to change their original plans anyways.

If anything I bet most fans would want the original vision that Carrie signed on for to be respected and followed thru to the end.

If that involves cgi layered over the onset actor then so be it, her scenes are probably minimal and static so it really shouldn't be too hard to complete her arc in E9. It's really a roll of the dice if she was supposed to die in 8 or not.

Now, had Ridley or Boyega died...Disney would be ****ed!

 

[Wor-Gar]

I don't think Disney feels any pressure to tread lightly on how to proceed with Leia and it's probably too late to change their original plans anyways.

Unless they planned to have Luke die in a sacrifice and have Leia be the sole survivor. Now, maybe, that would be changed -- meaning Leia dies and Luke will survive. Which would be a fairly drastic change.

We'll never know. Disney wouldn't spoil it. Not yet anyway.

 

[a-dev]

I don't think Disney feels any pressure to tread lightly on how to proceed with Leia and it's probably too late to change their original plans anyways.

If anything I bet most fans would want the original vision that Carrie signed on for to be respected and followed thru to the end.

If that involves cgi layered over the onset actor then so be it, her scenes are probably minimal and static so it really shouldn't be too hard to complete her arc.

A CGI Leia would potentially be really jarring if they intended to have (but not yet filmed) scenes with Ben (Kylo). Imagine if it's supposed to be an emotional scene and the audience is completely taken out of it as they wrestle with the 'does that look real or not' question many had with the Tarkin and Leia scenes in RO.

And if there ends up being no scenes with Leia and Ben - that they now never meet again because of Carrie's death - that just adds to the depressing story path they set our original trilogy characters upon. Wow, Leia's son turns to the dark side, he sends her brother into hiding, he kills Han, she never speaks to him again and then she (presumably) dies too. Enjoy that ewok party while it lasts guys coz ****in' hell.....

 

[ShadowX81]

Now, had Ridley or Boyega died...Disney would be ****ed!

Oh yea they definitely would! Has there ever been a starring actor that died in the middle of a film franchise? I'm sure that there is but I can't think of one of the top of my head other than Richard Harris in Harry Potter and the recent passing of Carrie Fisher.

Ive always wondered what would happen if there was some attack at a major event like the Oscars or People's Choice Awards where dozens of tv and movie celebrities died. Just trying to imagine the effect that this would have on American culture is kind of scary.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Has there ever been a starring actor that died in the middle of a film franchise?

Ledger...?

 

[ShadowX81]

Ledger...?

I mean more one whose work wasn't complete and was expected to star in a future film.

 

[jye4ever]

Unless they planned to have Luke die in a sacrifice and have Leia be the sole survivor. Now, maybe, that would be changed -- meaning Leia dies and Luke will survive. Which would be a fairly drastic change.

We'll never know. Disney wouldn't spoil it. Not yet anyway.

No matter what Disney does now it will be questioned so it's highly critical now that the final product is good so that everyone just accepts whatever it may be.

A CGI Leia would potentially be really jarring if they intended to have (but not yet filmed) scenes with Ben (Kylo). Imagine if it's supposed to be an emotional scene and the audience is completely taken out of it as they wrestle with the 'does that look real or not' question many had with the Tarkin and Leia scenes in RO.

And if there ends up being no scenes with Leia and Ben - that they now never meet again because of Carrie's death - then that just adds to the depressing story path they set our original trilogy characters upon. Wow, Leia's son turns to the dark side, sends her brother into hiding, kills Han, she never speaks to him again and then she (presumably) dies too.

Kong was cgi and people cried at his death.

Besides, Carrie moved and walked very slow, they probably already used cgi on her for TFA.

Oh yea they definitely would! Has there ever been a starring actor that died in the middle of a film franchise? I'm sure that there is but I can't think of one of the top of my head other than Richard Harris in Harry Potter.

Ive always wondered what would happen if there was some attack at a major event like the Oscars or People's Choice Awards where dozens of tv and movie celebrities died. Just trying to imagine the effect that this would have on American culture is kind of scary.

Bela Lugosi.
Twilight Zone movie.
Oliver Reed Gladiator
TDK Joker definately impacted TDKR.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I mean more one whose work wasn't complete and was expected to star in a future film.

His wasn't. Joker was to continue into Part 3.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Kong was cgi and people cried at his death.

ET was fake too and people balled for years.

 

[jye4ever]

The PT were fake and I cried alot in those.

 

[ShadowX81]

His wasn't. Joker was to continue into Part 3.

Really? Interesting. I never knew that.

I wonder what that film would have been like.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

TDK Joker definately impacted TDKR.

His wasn't. Joker was to continue into Part 3.

You can't prove that!!