Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16) *SPOILERS*

[JAWS]

.

I get the urge to watch this movie almost every day.

Yep. Me too.


Has anyone watch any of the reviews that did not like RO?

Red Letter Media has a few, Chris Stuckman and Nostalgia critic have one they did together, as well as a few others...

What drives me crazy about the above mentioned reviews is that the things they complain about can be applied to TFA and yet they LOVE TFA.
Some of the stuff they complain about can be applied to the original trilogy also.

RO is leaps and bounds better then that SW wannabe movie. No offence to those who like TFA I just find that if the second film does no deliver some answers and some good answers at that.. I am going to lump TFA as just a slightly better SW movie then the PT.

Now Mr. Plinkett's is funny but I disagree with about everything... The Chris Stuckman one makes me laugh because that Phantom Menacing thing he is talking about really does apply to TFA as it seems people are coming down to earth about that film... He is also trying to be too much like Red Letter media at times










Anyone else notice that Red Letter Media is getting more mean spirited lately... They have this new thing they do where they make fun of other "fan" youtube channels that just seems mean and dumb... I don't know... They almost come across as jealous or angry that anyone else out there is having youtube sequence.

 

[karamazov80]

I really enjoy the Red Letter Media stuff, but don't have a frame of reference for those ones making fun of the sponsored Youtube videos. I don't watch any other Youtube reviews, unless you're talking Angry Videogame Nerd So, I skip those, and the excessively long videogame things Rich Evans does with the bald guy, but I'll watch just about everything else they put out. In terms of their other stuff, I don't know if they are getting more mean spirited than they were in the past. They frequently put out a "**** you, it's January!" video, after all

 

[Wor-Gar]

RO is like a fine wine: it will get better (and be more accepted) with time.

 

[karamazov80]

Maybe I'm being cynical, but I think it will have the opposite effect that many movies have--when the novelty and newness wear away, its value will go down. That seemed to happen with movies like Avengers and Force Awakens. More like an old banana than wine.

 

[TonTon]

I remember being so impressed with Avengers when it first came out. Finally a big superhero movie with multiple heroes that worked on most levels. It was so good that it spawned 25 other movies and I've never once felt the need to rewatch that movie.

 

[Khev]

RO is like a fine wine: it will get better (and be more accepted) with time.

Yep, it doesn't coast on novelty, it succeeds (and will endure) on account of its quality. Even if the Saga gets oversaturated with 20 crappy Disney films going forward SW will always have that rock solid nucleus of RO-SW-ESB (and to a lesser extent ROTJ.)

 

[Wor-Gar]

Man, Kara and TonTon, I hope that's not the case. I actually like The Avengers and find it very rewatchable. It's still superior to all that has followed other than Winter Soldier.

Once this constant disposable Marvel-movie universe peeters out, I think a more proper appreciation for The Avengers and TWS will emerge. It's hard to get excited and want to revisit a world that's put on display with new films 3 times every year. People need to get away from the entire universe to then see what sticks and holds value over time. 10 years out is usually a good gauge.

Same with Star Wars is happening now. I think in time, RO will be better appreciated. But of course it depends greatly on the value of the films that follow it. If TLJ is just jaw-dropping and so is Han Solo movie, then RO might fade as its a one-off standalone with non-franchise characters who all die. But I don't have faith that all that is to come will be superior.

 

[karamazov80]

I remember being so impressed with Avengers when it first came out. Finally a big superhero movie with multiple heroes that worked on most levels. It was so good that it spawned 25 other movies and I've never once felt the need to rewatch that movie.

I don't think you are unusual here, and I am not saying that these movies are necessarily bad. But when you have so much stuff out there, and there's always more and more, each with its own hype machine, it's hard for anything to stand the test of time IMO. Not that the movie companies care too much about that.
A correspondingly problem is that none of these are all that distinctive or original. They are either spinoffs or sequels or prequels or reboots of something else. I was watching Jodorowski's Dune last night--though being based on a book,that would have been an original ****ing movie (as was Holy Mountain). And was incredibly influential despite not even being made!

Star Wars spinoff #12, or Marvel Studios spinoff #72, where the producers and focus groups have as much if not more input than the writers and directors do, following their formulas and appeasing audiences with stuff they are supposed to cheer for and boo at, always considering how many lunch boxes and Happy Meals they can sell in the process--we'll see. Maybe Khev and Wor-Gar are right. And maybe it will be to a smattering of fans. But on the aggregate, I cannot see that happening. I certainly can't imagine the masses lumping it in with the original film and Empire. I didn't even remember Vader force-choking whatshisface until it was pointed out in the thread recently Too much of what, really, is the same-old, same-old. You come at me with something truly innovative and different in a Star Wars or Marvel comics movie, and I'll pay more attention.

 

[Khev]

Maybe Khev and Wor-Gar are right. And maybe it will be to a smattering of fans. But on the aggregate, I cannot see that happening. I certainly can't imagine the masses lumping it in with the original film and Empire. I didn't even remember Vader force-choking whatshisface until it was pointed out in the thread recently

Well....I don't know that you're the best judge as to how RO will fare in the long term given the fact that you apparently slept through large portions of the film (didn't remember that it had Darth Vader, or ships fighting, WTF? ) and then were less than impressed with how the three scenes you were awake for connected to one another.

RO will always be unique in that it *both* elegantly connects to and enhances the OT while *still* serving as an awesome stand-alone war story. So it's not even like you need to commit to some big marathon to enjoy it (compared to, say, watching The Prisoner of Azakaban, Age of Ultron or The Desolation of Smaug which pretty much demand watching additional films before and/or after.)

 

[ShadowX81]

Anyone else notice that Red Letter Media is getting more mean spirited lately... They have this new thing they do where they make fun of other "fan" youtube channels that just seems mean and dumb... I don't know... They almost come across as jealous or angry that anyone else out there is having youtube sequence.

If you are reffering to "The Nerd Crew" videos I love them. Basically they are making fun of the fact that now that Superhero/Sci-Fi movies are mainstream, a bunch of different channels have come forward to overanalyze every little tidbit about an upcoming movie in a thinly vieled attempt to give the film free marketing.

Its like how after "The Last Jedi" trailer came out a couple weeks ago, there were tons of videos "breaking down" the trailer in great depth (sometimes up to 45 minute discussions on every detail) even though it was just a teaser that barely revealed anything.

A good example is that new talk show that Jeremy Jahns was a part of a few months ago. Even though I love JJ as a solo-reviewer, the other people in there were barely tolerable and the content was mostly trash, and it felt like the TMZ of nerdy stuff.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Basically they are making fun of the fact that now that Superhero/Sci-Fi movies are mainstream

What a bunch of neckbeards.

People say this so much now, when it's absolutely not true. Go ask your mother about some of the SW theories and I guarantee she could give less than 2 ****s.

The reality? It's the internet. We live in a time of non-stop hype trains, and the people who create content on the internet would be even dumber to just ignore it, when they can make loads of add revenue off of it, because it's the "talk" of the internet for the day.

Plus, hate to break it to ya, but Star Wars didn't become a hit in 1977 because it was a small-independent film no one talked about.

This thinking is the same as supporting one of your favorite small-time musicians, then once they become successful you hate them because others have found enjoyment through their music as well?

 

[karamazov80]

The tidbit of the comment you are responding to taken is a bit out of context I think, as those videos aren't so much making fun of the films itself (though there is some of that), but the Youtube reviewers who cover them like it's a commercially sponsored religious activity. Example being the in-depth, half-hour reviews of a 1 minute teaser trailer.

Well....I don't know that you're the best judge as to how RO will fare in the long term given the fact that you apparently slept through large portions of the film (didn't remember that it had Darth Vader, or ships fighting, WTF? ) and then were less than impressed with how the three scenes you were awake for connected to one another.

RO will always be unique in that it *both* elegantly connects to and enhances the OT while *still* serving as an awesome stand-alone war story. So it's not even like you need to commit to some big marathon to enjoy it (compared to, say, watching The Prisoner of Azakaban, Age of Ultron or The Desolation of Smaug which pretty much demand watching additional films before and/or after.)

I came at Rogue One without strong expectations or pre-formed opinions. I thought Force Awakens was good, but was disappointed at the commercial influences/nostalgia pandering. I walked away from Rogue One feeling the same way. My point saying that I don't remember that stuff is that I just don't think it's a very memorable film in general, and unless you are a pretty big fan that's the way most will treat it--disposable entertainment, similar to the Marvel movies. If it was a better film on its own merits I would have been more engaged and retained more of what was going on.

As for being a good stand-alone, I think the Red Letter Media video posted earlier points out how, unless you come in with a great deal of knowledge/context about Star Wars, you'll be scratching your head trying to figure out what is going on here quite a bit, and most importantly, why the film ends without a noteworthy resolution. But it's fine if you want to turn your brain off and spend a couple hours watching random sci-fi rebel characters fighting an authoritarian adversary. And if you enjoy comic adaptations and the like that fill in gaps in classic movies then it's nice, even if they aren't really needed at all. Ultimately, I don't think the film contributes all that much to the story of Star Wars. You can say that it highlights the sacrifice of those who got the plans and makes the whole effort that much more profound as a result. But I didn't care much about any of those characters, so that wasn't the case for me.

 

[Wor-Gar]

the film ends without a noteworthy resolution...

I can't argue with your points, except the one above. I believe the "sacrifice" made -- the true sacrifice of your life for a greater cause -- is something refreshing that is not genuinely seen in movies today; movies that are filled with 'collecting characters along the way' and few ever really die (if they do, they often come back in the next one or get their own tv series).

Without real consequence, how do you judge true value or importance?

 

[karamazov80]

I agree with that, and think that is one area where the film succeeds. I am still surprised that Kennedy allowed it. But I'm referring to the fact that we don't know what happens with those plans in the film. If you can appreciate ambiguity, and enjoy a film like No Country for Old Men or the ending to the Sopranos, then you could appreciate Rogue One as a stand-alone film. But it would be highly unusual for a highly marketed summer blockbuster film, and to my point, it's pretty clear that the writers/producers expect the audience to know what happens next.

 

[xipotec]

These Utube nerds are nothing but pandering to trolls, if they actually had to create something of substance, they would cry in there beds every night.

Any tool can critique someone else's work. What shocks me it the huge fan base they have for their ******** opinions......




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[karamazov80]

These Utube nerds are nothing but pandering to trolls, if they actually had to create something of substance, they would cry in there beds every night.

Any tool can critique someone else's work.

I easily see the parallel to the guys on political talk radio. Pandering, and attacking the low hanging fruit? Sure. But does it take skill to do well? In-arguably! I love Mystery Science Theater 3000, and know those guys work their asses off, even though they're MO is cracking jokes at the expense of someone else's hard work.

 

[Khev]

My point saying that I don't remember that stuff is that I just don't think it's a very memorable film in general, and unless you are a pretty big fan that's the way most will treat it--disposable entertainment

Yes I get that you're trying to express how forgettable the movie is by stating that you don't remember some of its most talked about moments. However given the fact that things like the space battle, Vader, etc., *are* so talked about I assume you can recognize that your experience is far from the norm. Do I think that Rogue One has set the world on fire and will forever be a pop culture defining milestone? Well no, of course not, but that's just because I don't know that any film can do that anymore.

But I do think that whenever it comes up either on TV or in conversation that *most* people will go "oh yeah, that movie, that was a sweet flick" in the tradition of films like Black Hawk Down or Apocalypto. And for diehards like myself RO will always be much more (unlike the PT, most cbm's, and so on.)

 

[TonTon]

Man, Kara and TonTon, I hope that's not the case. I actually like The Avengers and find it very rewatchable. It's still superior to all that has followed other than Winter Soldier.

Once this constant disposable Marvel-movie universe peeters out, I think a more proper appreciation for The Avengers and TWS will emerge. It's hard to get excited and want to revisit a world that's put on display with new films 3 times every year. People need to get away from the entire universe to then see what sticks and holds value over time. 10 years out is usually a good gauge.

Same with Star Wars is happening now. I think in time, RO will be better appreciated. But of course it depends greatly on the value of the films that follow it. If TLJ is just jaw-dropping and so is Han Solo movie, then RO might fade as its a one-off standalone with non-franchise characters who all die. But I don't have faith that all that is to come will be superior.

The difference here is that I have a passing interest in Marvel, but Star Wars is way different, so I'll see how things change after another 5-10 movies have come out. I was always excited for TFA, Rogue One, and now TLJ, but I'm not interested in/annoyed they're making the Solo movie, so I'll have to see how their other choices for movies shape up.

If they all end up really good and in a similar tone to Rogue One, that movie will start to fade. That's the problem with the zillion avengers movies. Marvel is bigger than just them, but they've been milked so much. That's the good thing with Rogue One, it'll remain unique at least. But if it turns out that RO is more successful than the upcoming Solo movie and the standalone movie after that, they might revisit what they think people want, etc, and try to recapture what Rogue One had, empire vs rebels, some Vader, etc. Won't know for another decade like you say.

 

[karamazov80]

But I do think that whenever it comes up either on TV or in conversation that *most* people will go "oh yeah, that movie, that was a sweet flick" in the tradition of films like Black Hawk Down or Apocalypto. And for diehards like myself RO will always be much more (unlike the PT, most cbm's, and so on.)

Comparing it with something like Black Hawk Down seems fair to me.

 

[TonTon]

I don't think you are unusual here, and I am not saying that these movies are necessarily bad. But when you have so much stuff out there, and there's always more and more, each with its own hype machine, it's hard for anything to stand the test of time IMO. Not that the movie companies care too much about that.
A correspondingly problem is that none of these are all that distinctive or original. They are either spinoffs or sequels or prequels or reboots of something else. I was watching Jodorowski's Dune last night--though being based on a book,that would have been an original ****ing movie (as was Holy Mountain). And was incredibly influential despite not even being made!

Star Wars spinoff #12, or Marvel Studios spinoff #72, where the producers and focus groups have as much if not more input than the writers and directors do, following their formulas and appeasing audiences with stuff they are supposed to cheer for and boo at, always considering how many lunch boxes and Happy Meals they can sell in the process--we'll see. Maybe Khev and Wor-Gar are right. And maybe it will be to a smattering of fans. But on the aggregate, I cannot see that happening. I certainly can't imagine the masses lumping it in with the original film and Empire. I didn't even remember Vader force-choking whatshisface until it was pointed out in the thread recently Too much of what, really, is the same-old, same-old. You come at me with something truly innovative and different in a Star Wars or Marvel comics movie, and I'll pay more attention.

Yeah, it just got to the point where they are all "good." Some I remember as very good--Avengers, Iron Man I, probably a couple others--but they've just become this stream of "good." Even the more unique ones (Ant-Man, Strange) still feel like they have something formulaic that prevents the from being great. It's possible with the super heroes though, that being unable to really kill off any of them is part of the issue. Star Wars doesn't necessarily have to deal with that. But Vader has become the same, he will now never die as they'll likely find places to squeeze him in all over the place like they did in RO. Even Han's death has immediately been undercut by the new spinoff. His body isn't even cold yet! (I think it fell into lava though so it could take a while.)