Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16) *SPOILERS*

[ZaCHw117]

I made sure to specifically say "quality" SW lol.

So TFA is up there with Empire on your "quality" list? None of the prequels tho?

choose your next words wisely, Jye.

 

[jye4ever]

Oh absolutely!

TFA > PT

Not even close!

That being said...

RO > TFA

Not even close!

 

[Chakor]

I've just avoided all of the disappointment and not bothered seeing TFA or RO.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Oh absolutely!

TFA > PT

Not even close!

That being said...

RO > TFA

Not even close!

but Jye, RO is a prequel!

 

[ZaCHw117]

I've just avoided all of the disappointment and not bothered seeing TFA or RO.

do yourself a favor and watch RO.

 

[jye4ever]

but Jye, RO is a prequel!

Yeah you got me lol

 

[ZaCHw117]

RO>TFA

tho TFA is an easier watch.

 

[xipotec]

Can"t we just agree to like all SW films???











Except Aotc......that was pure poodoo....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DiFabio]

It's cool that DiFabio and Zach have Logan, a-dev has ALIENS/Terminator, and then some of us have RO or what have you. Only odd man out is kara with X-Men: Apoc and GI Joe: Retaliation. Ouch. That guy totally has a right to be bitter at RO's success.

I might not love Logan but I sure as heck respect it. That's the only thing I'm a bit surprised about with regard to DiFab and even kara. I'd like to think that even if I wasn't a diehard OG SW fan that I'd look at RO and go "damn, props for going that route!" But eh, I've lived with ALIENS being dismissed for decades so I know that's just how some people roll. To each their own and all.

Logan is /notmymovie/. These movies are not my friends or family. They're just one night stands that I dump the next morning!


As for Rogue One, I never hated it or anything. Like I said, I liked it save for the beginning. I just don't think it's as great as some of the people here make it out to be. Shoulder to shoulder with the original and Empire!?! Blasphemy. In regards to respecting it, I have no respect for anything Disney Star Wars. I don't think this conglomerate hold they have is anything praiseworthy. In fact, Nu-Star Wars feels like the antithesis of what Star Wars used to be as far as companies, corporations, Hollywood and filmmaking goes. I personally think the people they hire like Abrams, Gareth, etc. are yes men without any real vision making big budget fan films, but that's just me. I don't think the filmmaker matters really. Force Awakens was always going to be what it was going to be, just like most of the Marvel movies. In an alternate reality, Lucas didn't sell Star Wars off and "Rogue One" was a cool little mini series directed by John Knoll and Joe Johnston or something.

Can"t we just agree to like all SW films???











Except Aotc......that was pure poodoo....

Aye, I could do that.

 

[Khev]

I'm not ashamed to be extreme in my RO fandom. It hit all the right notes and had enough "outside the movie" experiences like my son turning to me with an ear to ear grin when that first AT-AT emerged from the smoke and then my trip to Celebration to just make it epic on all levels for me. I love Gareth's mindset behind all of his decisions, the fact that Oxford grad Felicity Jones wasn't above spending hours on Wookieepedia soaking in everything she could about the era her character lived in, or that she and Forest took the time to privately discuss in depth their entire history together so that when their characters discussed him abandoning her both actors had the exact same subtext in their minds. The Edge of Tomorrow guy's production design and both Gareth and John Knoll's relentless pursuit in matching ANH's visual style, but never to a fault. Kennedy and Bob Igor signing off on the 100% casualties, approving reshoot after reshoot and never settling for "good enough." Obviously I could go on to the chagrin of many.

Obviously Gareth has baggage for those who disliked his take on Godzilla but I can't imagine anyone doing a better job than he did, call him a puppet or a hack or what have you but to me him being brought in to do RO is absolutely no different than ALIEN superfan James Cameron being handed the sequel to that particular franchise.

Yes it was a team effort with no one person getting total credit but like ANH and ALIENS before it I think this is one of the best examples of how the synergy between artists and money men can make something truly great. It doesn't feel wrong at all to rank it up there with SW/ESB/ALIENS.

Aye, I could do that.

Such a great moment.

 

[DiFabio]

Yup, you got it. I was going to use the gif of Gimli saying that, but I hate tumblr.

Khev, please, PLEASE stop it with the ALIENS comparisons. It's driving me insane, lol. I'll do anything if you stop. I'll admit that Rogue One is the best movie ever made even. Rogue One was made in a time where there are thousands and thousands of people involved and you have Bob Iger and Kathleen's cronies microtasking all of it from start to finish. I remember the first time I realized this. It was when I was watching the credits for Avengers and the roles, duties and people just kept going on and on and on and on as I finally got to the motion picture association of america logo. ****ing Aliens was an uphill battle for Cameron and Hurd for the entire production. The British crew ****ing with Cameron taking tea breaks. Veteran crew members doing what they wanted with the cinematography until he had to let them go. Aliens has Cameron's aesthetic all over it. The ****ing guy wrote the script, did the concept art, directed the actors, fought tooth and nail for his "vision" etc. etc. It was guerrilla filmmaking at it's finest. Those productions over in England are always brutal and it's a wonder they even got anything done, let alone a good movie.. Gareth Edwards? Any director in the business today could have been involved and Rogue One would have been the same. It would have looked the same, it would have felt the same. Hell anytime someone wants to speculate about some of the gossip that went on behind the scenes with possible production problems that were going on with this thing, other people in here come in and try and shut it down. "Everything was fine! Everything went according to plan! The final product was better for it!" I've watched the making of Rogue One, and honestly, some of those early concepts where the story wasn't framed over any one character and a couple of the crew being creature/aliens along the likes of Chewbacca seemed a lot more interesting than corporate filling up your minority quota with a blind asian guy because the actor is popular over in China. From what Disney, Gareth, and Kennedy let out, there were no creative problems with Rogue One! It was a well oiled machine. So the only comparison I draw between the two is quite literally "Khev be lovin Aliens and Khev be lovin Rogue One, samesies!".

What is Gareth Edward's style? I still lol when people in here were trying to compare Godzilla's lack of screen time to Darth Vader's as if it was his doing. Hell, besides lens flare, what is JJ Abram's? "Homages" to Spielberg and Lucas? These guys are not auteurs. I see people hyping up Rian Johnson because of his Breaking Bad episodes. Fly? Really. I'll admit, I love Ozymandias, but c'mon. With tv shows they'll have the actors come in and direct on an episode for goodness sake. These are all tv guys mind you, and people wonder why critics claim these types of properties (Marvel getting the most bad rap for it) feel like tv shows instead of actual films. It's because they're made the same way.

And yet, these people that idolize Edwards or Abrams are scared of Colin Trevorrow because of things like Jurassic World? Well in that case, you can count on Episode 9 being exactly like Force Awakens and Rogue One, and being a commercial success to boot! To me, all these 40 something year old directors are the same.

 

[jye4ever]

It's like I totally get what DiFabio is explaining and he's NOT wrong.

But just because I understand and agree with it does it mean i'm just going to give up on new SW.

As an adult I no longer need my mother to be responsible for me but that doesn't mean I will no longer interact with her.

There's a reason why no other movie other than SW has a dedicated convention just for that specific franchise.

Wait, does Star Trek?

 

[DiFabio]

I'm your mother now, listen to me.

Jye honey, you better eat your wheaties.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Wait, is someone saying that Disney films are not the ultimate "factory made" films?

 

[jye4ever]

We want to believe that all of our favorite 70's-80's movies weren't factory made but the reality is, they all were.

Hollywood had been a factory long before the era of our favorite movies.

 

[Khev]

Cameron and Edwards were both huge fans of their respective franchises and made the best films they possibly could. Sure Cameron yelled at people to get what he wanted while Gareth quietly wrote in that all the characters died and hoped that the studio would go along with it. In the end both visionaries won their most important creative battles. I never claimed that Gareth drew all the ship designs himself or that he wrote most of the script. I'm speaking only in their similarities as directors at that point in their careers.

And considering the fact that the dialogue was better in RO than ALIENS doesn't exactly work in Cameron's "I'm going to do it all myself" favor anyway. It's fine if you believe that Cameron's movie is on some untouchable pedestal (or simply untouchable by RO) but as a fan of both franchises my whole life I have to say I'm pretty confident in my assessment of both films. They're both awesome in their own right and also as productions with a fair amount of overlap.

 

[DiFabio]

We want to believe that all of our favorite 70's-80's movies weren't factory made but the reality is, they all were.

Hollywood had been a factory long before the era of our favorite movies.

Not to this extent. Sure, you had your producers coming in making sure their money wasn't getting blown and dictating things. But the same as what goes on now? 1-800-Come-on-now

As far as Star Wars is concerned, if there's one that fits the bill of what we're talking about, it's Return of the Jedi.

 

[Wor-Gar]

We want to believe that all of our favorite 70's-80's movies weren't factory made but the reality is, they all were.

Hollywood had been a factory long before the era of our favorite movies.

Mostly, but I think few people here can actually remember when Spielberg first hit the scene -- what most movies were like before he added so much to the language, and how he single-handedly advanced filmmaking. Lucas too, in effects and sound and editing, the practical side, but Spielberg influenced the actual visual language. Lens flares, dolly-in-zoom-out, framing, depth of field, the choreography within the frame, etc -- not since Orson Welles and Hitchcock had someone altered the language so dramatically, and with so many great tricks. May all seem cliché now so much of it is so overused. But a guy like that only comes around once a generation or so.

A lot of talk around here about "auteurs" about guys who are not, but Spielberg was. A massive talent that made going to the movies exciting again, not just for his choice in subject matter, but in the amazing way he told his stories.

I can't wait for that next genius to come along. We so need one right about now.

 

[DiFabio]

Cameron and Edwards were both huge fans of their respective franchises and made the best films they possibly could. Sure Cameron yelled at people to get what he wanted while Gareth quietly wrote in that all the characters died and hoped that the studio would go along with it. In the end both visionaries won their most important creative battles. I never claimed that Gareth drew all the ship designs himself or that he wrote most of the script. I'm speaking only in their similarities as directors at that point in their careers.

Cameron's style and DNA is all over Aliens from his script, to his pre-production art on black paper, to the look and feel of the final film. Back in 85' if Fox rips Cameron out of the production because they don't like his script or it's going over budget, or simply because they don't feel Alien warrants a sequel. ALIENS ceases to be. You might not even have a sequel.

What "Edwards" qualities are injected into Rogue One? What happens if Disney yanked his ass out of it? Oh, two characters don't die at the end. That's quite a contribution. Tell me about the different units or the other directors. Tell me about the Battlefront Vader scene plopped on at the end. You think Cameron would let anybody but himself in charge of even the slightest detail of Aliens? Didn't he fire most of his?

I'm not even a Cameron fanboy (I just pretend to be), but it's apples and oranges. The similarity of Cameron and Edwards both being fans is like saying, well they're both dudes. Or, they both have two arms and legs. That's about the extent of it. I mean, isn't James Cameron the same ****ing guy that said "damn it, somebody else did it" in regards to the original Star Wars, implying that he was beaten to the punch. I mean you basically summed it up yourself. Gareth is a meek, humble yes man, asking for permission with his ideas where Cameron is this notorious prick that most of the crew and cast fear. He's the driving force of his films. Gareth is just a cog in a machine. If something goes wrong with that cog, they'll just replace it with a new one. Ask Edgar Wright about Ant-Man. Ask what's his face, the Buffy guy, about Age of Ultron.

 

[Khev]

You seem to be under the impression that because Cameron's a jerk and Edwards is a nice guy that somehow their respective tasks couldn't have been more different but that's not the case. How many times in film history has a sequel to a hugely popular genre film with a devoted fanbase been handed to a young up and comer who wears his fanboyism on his sleeve? Suddenly their common ground gets just a little more unique than just "two guys with two arms and legs."

Yes if you pull Cameron out of ALIENS it ceases to be as we know it. But you're kidding yourself if you think that Rogue One wouldn't have been radically different without Edwards. Yes Cameron is a ****. Yes Cameron made sure that the movie had his signature blue tint and that the world of Ridley Scott and HR Giger was "Terminator-ized" with his specific militaristic look. But there's not one single James Cameron film that I'd say matches Rogue One. Not one. ALIENS is obviously the closest. So you can sing his praises all you like and I'll even agree that he deserves major props but at the end of the day you and I are just two people with somewhat similar opinions on ALIENS and very different ones on RO.

So all I'm hearing is that you think that James Cameron is uniquely awesome for micromanaging so much of his 9.9 film. But Rogue One is a 10. And Cameron didn't make one of those. #micdrop #lectureemoji