Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16) *SPOILERS*

[DiFabio]

Honestly, I don't hate the idea of Jango as much as I used to, despite all my "anti kiwi" posts.

A-dev will tell you. I used to go on long rants about how Stormtroopers weren't clones and how they were all different dudes. Or how Boba Fett wasn't a clone and the voice change was a travesty. It would drive me insane when Hasbro would take OT troopers and pilots and have Temuera Morrison's face under there.

But then after awhile, I just didn't care. Jango Fett is alright, I mean how AOTC treats the Fett legacy is no worse than how awful Boba is handled in ROTJ. Jango is arguably cooler and has more to do than Boba in Jedi. That and you go back to 1978 and see that the original concept for Boba Fett was a white armored imperial super stormtrooper, so him being connected to the Empire was always there, even if I prefer to think of Fett as a mysterious Clint Eastwood, spaghetti western type at the end of the day. In fact, after years of playing the old and new Battlefront games, jetpacking around as Boba or Jango, or blowing up droids as a Clonetrooper, I've kind of grown quite fond of Temuera Morrison's voice. It's now synonymous with the character in a way Jason Wingreen's can no longer be. TFA mellowed me out over the prequels I think. I'll take a ruthless brainwashed Clone army of Temuera Morrison over random cowards like short squat THICC thighs Finn and lackey, no ****, garbage dump Phasma.

That's why I don't even care about canon anymore. Anytime I watch any of the movies, I'm in the moment with the story that's unfolding, not thinking about prequels or sequels or crappy comic books and novels or whatever. Like we've discussed before, I do like how the prequels, sequels and anthology movies have taken unused concepts that were left over from the OT and fleshed them out as a reality.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Jango, the clones, Obi-Wan ditchin lil' ani, some of the best parts of aotc.

the battle is pretty sweet too, but could have been better without 3P0 and R2 hamming up the scene.

ive always wanted to see a fan cut of the PT without all the senseless garbage, i think it would be pretty good.

 

[Khev]

I don't see how any OG SW fan can call the PT "better SW films" than TFA (referring to JAWS, not DiFabio as I know he discovered the films after their original theatrical runs.) TFA is basically ROTJ Redux to me. It didn't ruin Han as bad as ROTJ did, in fact I still think it gave him a proper send-off on his own terms rather than as the bumbling fool who didn't do anything noteworthy in ROTJ. In TFA he alone got the Falcon through the shields of Starkiller Base so that the Resistance could attack it. He alone thought to bring the explosives, he alone said they needed to go back after they had already succeeded in rescuing Rey. Even his sacrifice set Kylo up to be wounded by Chewie's bowcaster so that Finn and Rey could last longer against him.

He had some great comedic moments and no matter where they were he walked around like the owned the place. Han was great in TFA IMO.

It's primary sins are the OT "greatest hits" rehash vibe and the much belabored issue about it undoing the decisive victory against the Empire at Endor. Runner up annoyances were the complete lack of inspired new starships and overall pretty weak names (Poe Dameron, Maz Kanata, Takodana, Snoke, Hux, etc.) None of those have the same ring as the names Lucas came up with or RO characters like Jyn Erso, Cassian Andor, Bor Gullet, Orson Krennic, etc.)

I have a certain nostalgia for the PT but the way it craps on awesome heroes and concepts like the Jedi, the Force, Darth Vader/Anakin, and Boba Fett is just unforgivable for me.

Jason Wingreen will ALWAYS be Boba Fett to me. I'll never accept Morrison or the annoying Daniel Logan. To me the "Super Stormtroopers" concept has been replaced with Death Troopers and I actually like the idea of picturing Fett as a retired Death Trooper after they were disbanded and integrated into the regular fighting ranks. My own personal canon yes but having our own interpretations of these movies is half the fun.

I do like a number of the visuals of the PT, mostly in TPM but also the arena battle of AOTC and for ROTS the Anakin/Dooku duel as well as the Utapau sequences. TPM is overall the most "forgivable" because the majority of its silliness is self-contained to new concepts (pod racers, gungans, etc.) that weren't in the OT. Qui Gon, young Obi-Wan, Darth Maul, and the ornate Queen outfits are still cool to this day.

 

[DiFabio]

What the hell is with you guys and Amidala's outfits? I saw Wor say that he'd buy a Hot Toys Episode I Queen Amidala with the light up bulb dress one time.

Also Commander Cody and the clone commanders > Deathtroopers

Though I will admit that Deathtroopers are better than Stormtroopers and waaaaay superior to the goofy First Order troops. I like their voices. Reminds me of the military in Half Life.

 

[jye4ever]

DiFabio wins the battle for a bad ass Half Life correlation but Khev still wins the war lol.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Honestly, I don't hate the idea of Jango as much as I used to,

I still do.

I saw Wor say that he'd buy a Hot Toys Episode I Queen Amidala with the light up bulb dress one time.

I did. I think I would too. The first and only time I actually liked Queen Amidala was as the original Queen of Naboo.

I think if I were to make a PT shelf it would have: Maul, Grievous, Nute Gunray and Queen Amidala in that light-up bulb dress.

 

[DiFabio]

Would you pay $250 for it?

If that had actual lights, it'd probably be $300 even. Or they'd do some deluxe **** with the purple soldier outfit she has from the end of the movie.

 

[jye4ever]

I loved her Geisha look.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Would you pay $250 for it?

That's the problem. No, likely not.

But I might pick it up on ebay after 6 months for $150.

 

[DiFabio]

That's what I thought.


I still don't get what is taking them so long with Jedi Luke and the Emperor. Or why there is no Tarkin. Or ESB Boba. Or EPIII Anakin and Obi-Wan. Or Darth Maul. Or Jango. Or exclusive porcelain Clone troopers.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'd have a very hard time creating a PT shelf, that's why I'd prefer to just stay away from it.

Once you have, say, an Amidala, then you kind of need Anakin. And once you have Maul and Grievous, then you kind of need Dooku, and maybe Palps in his Red Senate get-up. And then... it spreads like a virus until you're actually contemplating Jar-Jar and Boss Nass.

Thinking about it now, maybe I'd just stick with PT villains: Maul, Palps, Dooku, Grievous, Gunray, Commander Cody.

But not Jango. Not on my shelf.

 

[Khev]

What the hell is with you guys and Amidala's outfits?

They look cool on screen.

Also Commander Cody and the clone commanders > Deathtroopers

No amount of sideways arrows will undo the absurdity of that statement for me. But eh, whatever floats your boat.

Though I will admit that Deathtroopers are better than Stormtroopers and waaaaay superior to the goofy First Order troops. I like their voices. Reminds me of the military in Half Life.

Their voices go back farther than Half Life. They sound like the digitized Nazis in the Apple II Castle Wolfenstein games.



And in moments of weakness I still occassionally flirt with the notion of getting a Darth Maul statue. It doesn't help that the new PF looks so awesome.

 

[jye4ever]

I just want Wor-Gar to say Dooku again.

 

[JAWS]

I don't see how any OG SW fan can call the PT "better SW films" than TFA (referring to JAWS, not DiFabio as I know he discovered the films after their original theatrical runs.) TFA is basically ROTJ Redux to me. It didn't ruin Han as bad as ROTJ did, in fact I still think it gave him a proper send-off on his own terms rather than as the bumbling fool who didn't do anything noteworthy in ROTJ. In TFA he alone got the Falcon through the shields of Starkiller Base so that the Resistance could attack it. He alone thought to bring the explosives, he alone said they needed to go back after they had already succeeded in rescuing Rey. Even his sacrifice set Kylo up to be wounded by Chewie's bowcaster so that Finn and Rey could last longer against him.

He had some great comedic moments and no matter where they were he walked around like the owned the place. Han was great in TFA IMO.

It's primary sins are the OT "greatest hits" rehash vibe and the much belabored issue about it undoing the decisive victory against the Empire at Endor. Runner up annoyances were the complete lack of inspired new starships and overall pretty weak names (Poe Dameron, Maz Kanata, Takodana, Snoke, Hux, etc.) None of those have the same ring as the names Lucas came up with or RO characters like Jyn Erso, Cassian Andor, Bor Gullet, Orson Krennic, etc.)

I have a certain nostalgia for the PT but the way it craps on awesome heroes and concepts like the Jedi, the Force, Darth Vader/Anakin, and Boba Fett is just unforgivable for me.

Jason Wingreen will ALWAYS be Boba Fett to me. I'll never accept Morrison or the annoying Daniel Logan. To me the "Super Stormtroopers" concept has been replaced with Death Troopers and I actually like the idea of picturing Fett as a retired Death Trooper after they were disbanded and integrated into the regular fighting ranks. My own personal canon yes but having our own interpretations of these movies is half the fun.

I do like a number of the visuals of the PT, mostly in TPM but also the arena battle of AOTC and for ROTS the Anakin/Dooku duel as well as the Utapau sequences. TPM is overall the most "forgivable" because the majority of its silliness is self-contained to new concepts (pod racers, gungans, etc.) that weren't in the OT. Qui Gon, young Obi-Wan, Darth Maul, and the ornate Queen outfits are still cool to this day.

What I mean and what I have always said is that at least the PT feels like SW.

My biggest issue with TFA is that it does not feel like SW. It feels like a group of nerds got together and attempted to make a SW film. I blame it on many things....

1. The locations. This does not feel like a Galaxy far far away. It feels like TV sets and local backyards. It feels more Made for TV then a theatrical release.

2. The Characters - I am not going to rehash all the issues that have been discussed but the fact that Rye is so great is just more fan boy bull... I ean she can speak droid, Wookie (a big deal that Han was one of the few humans that could) fly the flacon and do all the major force moves just takes me out of the film. It breaks away from everything I know about the Universe... Again fanboy bull... Kylo looks like a nerd you would see at any comi con playing cosplay. I could handle his look if he did not suck so bad at everything he does. Don't get me started on "Where is my boy friend" Maz... Film came to a grinding halt after she appeared.


3. The side characters - Was any of them Memorable. Where was the new Fett, Wedge, Bib Fortuna, Admiral Piett. I love all those little side characters. This film had Hux.... Barf.

4. The Scope and size. This film felt small. Much of this had to do with the setting. But again it just did not feel like Star Wars.

5. The action... We love Star Wars for many things and one of those things are some great action scenes... TFA IMO did not offer any. And when it tried I found myself scratching my head and asking "Why is she so good at flying the Falcon? ?" "Why is she so much better with a Saber the Kylo" "Why did they make the villains so weak and goofy?"

6. Music was pretty poor.. Williams worst... I know he is old... but man... The score lacked as much imagination as the script.

The PT for all it's faults still had George Lucas' imagination... I have always said that the PT needed more Lawrence Kasdan and TFA need more Lucas (imagination wise). The planets and locations even though CGI were memorable much like Hoth, Tatooine,Death Star and Bespin. Other then the one planet looking like Tatooine what stood out about the other planets in TFA.

The PT had some great action... I mean the Maul Duel is one of the series best action scenes, the Pod race is visually stunning, Obi and Anakin's saber Duel while too long and overdone it's location and stakes help it stick out, the AOTC has some decent action also but much less memorable... Much like TFA.

The PT had the Emperor being the Emperor so well in TPM and that little bit we get to see him in AOTC at the end.. He did go full Ham in ROTS though.

PT struggled with offering cool small side characters also... Unless you count Maul and Jango

PT has some great music

But the PT just feels more like SW and a galaxy far far away. TFA even had all the classic OT things to help it with it's cast and familiar ships and yet it feels small and very cosplay.

I thought perhaps it was just me and the fact I am getting old... But then RO came along and reminded me even more how much TFA does not feel like SW. The opening five minutes of RO feels more like SW then anything in TFA. Every planet new and old felt more like SW. The characters felt more like SW.


NOW you can argue about all the PT issues compared to TFA... and YES TFA is a better made film... No question. I just don't think it feels like a real SW film and TPT and RO do. RO does kick the PT feel for SW also so I am not saying the PT is perfect in it's SW feel.

Too much CGI is PT biggest issue for that SW feel. Its why I think I like TPM the best of the PT. It's uses the most real locations and sets.... That and it has the est action in the PT, best villains in the PT, and the best character in the PT (Qui Gon)

Anyways.. That's my logic. Ultimately it' like comparing apples to apples... I really don't care too much for any of the films. They all pale in comparison to OT and RO.

ANH - 10 out of 10
ESB - 10 out of 10
RO - 9 out of 10
ROTJ - 7 out of 10

TPM - 5 out of 10
TFA - 4 out of 10
ROTS 4 out of 10

AOTC - 2.5 out of 10

 

[Khev]

Kylo looks like a nerd you would see at any comi con playing cosplay. I could handle his look if he did not suck so bad at everything he does.

Funny stuff. And funnily enough that was the first thing my daughter said about Kylo after we left the theater. "I was surprised that he looked like a nerd." And then on the blu-ray commentary JJ Abrams went off about how it was such a departure to have the masked villain NOT be all scarred and scary looking but rather "look like a prince" instead. Nope. Sorry JJ. He looked like a nerd. I still found him to be a fascinating *character* even if he wasn't the best villain per se.

I like TPM the best of the PT. It's uses the most real locations and sets.... That and it has the est action in the PT, best villains in the PT, and the best character in the PT (Qui Gon)

I totally agree on all of that about TPM. In fact at least once a year I tend to find myself thinking, "Hmm, Qui Gon, Darth Maul, cool settings, etc., maybe TPM isn't so bad." And then I pop in the blu-ray and it's cool for a few minutes until Ric Olie, Kitster, goofy alien senators, and all that show up.

I really don't care too much for any of the films. They all pale in comparison to OT and RO.

ANH - 10 out of 10
ESB - 10 out of 10
RO - 9 out of 10
ROTJ - 7 out of 10

TPM - 5 out of 10
TFA - 4 out of 10
ROTS 4 out of 10

AOTC - 2.5 out of 10

I suppose there isn't much point in debating how "bad" our 5th-8th ranked SW films are. We have the same top 4 grouping and the same bottom 4, just a different order with regard to the latter grouping. It seems that 90% of all original SW fans who have loved the saga since 1977 rate SW/ESB/ROTJ/RO pretty much the same.

If you don't love SW/ESB/RO then I really can't relate to you as a fan. Or if you *do* love the PT. Now whether you love or hate ROTJ and/or TFA I can pretty much agree with both sides, lol, even if I do enjoy them both. What's funny is that I'd probably rate TFA as a non-canon 8 and ROTJ as a canon 7. And canon wins.

 

[cerealkeller]

I recently watched Revenge of the Sith (I really do not need to see TPM or AOTC again) and then went straight away into Rogue One. Honestly, it was quite a jarring transition to go from the Lucas version of SW to this new, gritty universe but it worked on many levels. At the end of ROTS, the Empire took over then in the beginning of RO, we see a family living in this new Empire trying to hide from it. RO introduces this new SW universe where everything looks scavenged and lived in, completely not like the look the Republic had in the prequels. What I mean is, RO is a great segue now to the original trilogies look as a darker galaxy to exist in. Every time I see RO I love it more for its accomplishments setting up the circumstances in ANH.

 

[Khev]

I recently watched Revenge of the Sith (I really do not need to see TPM or AOTC again) and then went straight away into Rogue One. Honestly, it was quite a jarring transition to go from the Lucas version of SW to this new, gritty universe but it worked on many levels. At the end of ROTS, the Empire took over then in the beginning of RO, we see a family living in this new Empire trying to hide from it. RO introduces this new SW universe where everything looks scavenged and lived in, completely not like the look the Republic had in the prequels. What I mean is, RO is a great segue now to the original trilogies look as a darker galaxy to exist in. Every time I see RO I love it more for its accomplishments setting up the circumstances in ANH.

Ah, sweet. Thanks for reporting how the transition plays from the PT to RO. Yeah, I'm continually blown away at how good a job they did in making RO:

1. An awesome stand-alone film
2. A worthy addition to the OT
3. A nice bridge between trilogies for those who do like the PT

 

[JAWS]

Funny stuff. And funnily enough that was the first thing my daughter said about Kylo after we left the theater. "I was surprised that he looked like a nerd." And then on the blu-ray commentary JJ Abrams went off about how it was such a departure to have the masked villain NOT be all scarred and scary looking but rather "look like a prince" instead. Nope. Sorry JJ. He looked like a nerd. I still found him to be a fascinating *character* even if he wasn't the best villain per se.




I totally agree on all of that about TPM. In fact at least once a year I tend to find myself thinking, "Hmm, Qui Gon, Darth Maul, cool settings, etc., maybe TPM isn't so bad." And then I pop in the blu-ray and it's cool for a few minutes until Ric Olie, Kitster, goofy alien senators, and all that show up.



I suppose there isn't much point in debating how "bad" our 5th-8th ranked SW films are. We have the same top 4 grouping and the same bottom 4, just a different order with regard to the latter grouping. It seems that 90% of all original SW fans who have loved the saga since 1977 rate SW/ESB/ROTJ/RO pretty much the same.

If you don't love SW/ESB/RO then I really can't relate to you as a fan. Or if you *do* love the PT. Now whether you love or hate ROTJ and/or TFA I can pretty much agree with both sides, lol, even if I do enjoy them both. What's funny is that I'd probably rate TFA as a non-canon 8 and ROTJ as a canon 7. And canon wins.

Yeah.. TFA is better made then ROTJ.. But Jedi is a better SW film also..

Yeah I can't stress enough that I don't like the PT other then a cool moment or two. I am just giving them a second chance right now and I am finding some entertainment out of it. But even when I was on my usual full hate mode of the films I still thought they were more SW in feel the TFA. But yea they are still overall garbage.

Never in a million years did I ever think I would defend the PT as much as I have this past day

 

[JAWS]

Ah, sweet. Thanks for reporting how the transition plays from the PT to RO. Yeah, I'm continually blown away at how good a job they did in making RO:

1. An awesome stand-alone film
2. A worthy addition to the OT
3. A nice bridge between trilogies for those who do like the PT

First time viewing I did not know how I felt about the tie in with the PT... I mean I spent the last 8 years trying to erase them from my mind and pretend they never happened the way Lucas filmed them.. Then along come RO and says "Yep they really happened"

But it's yet one more reason I think I am giving them another chance.

 

[DiFabio]

Thinking about it now, maybe I'd just stick with PT villains: Maul, Palps, Dooku, Grievous, Gunray, Commander Cody

But not Jango. Not on my shelf.

Uhhhh