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No offense FE, but I think you're smart enough to figure out I was specifically asked if I had a background, and simply aswered the question. And I also think you're smart enough to know that an opinion based on knowledge, no matter what the subject, is more valuable than one based on ignorance.
Now you know full well I have always said art is subjective and based on personal preferences, which is why I never slam any forms of art, even those I do not particularly care for ie abstract art. I do not have the slightest problem with someone preferring the PF pose being different than Jerry's art, but when people start referring to aspects of Jerry's pose as being "weak and feminine" without stating why they feel that way, or without stating how that issue can be addressed....those comments have gone well beyond "constructive criticism" and they result in the poster appearing lazy and/or dumb.....sorry. :huh It is one thing to say "there's something about the left leg I just don't like", it is quite another to say it looks "feminine and weak" because now you are making it personal. Just like when someone has the nerve to question Jerry's integrity by saying "you have to take everything he says with a grain of salt"........really? Is that anyone's ideal of 'constructive"? Is that the kind of "quality opinion" we really need around here?:confused:

Am I being combative?....absolutely! You've been around here longer than I have......you tell me how the nonsense of the last 10-12 pages of this thread ends. If your answer is something along the lines that it results in yet another artist deciding it's no longer worth the effort of participating with forum members around here....you would be CORRECT! No offense FE, but very few of the numerous artists that used to participate on this forum still do, and while you may not think as highly of Jerry's work [he didn't participate in the movies afterall :monkey3] as some of us, I think everyone can agree on the fact this forum is a better place with him, than without. :lecture
And please, if someone was to levy these types of comments at a Weta artist on a certain other forum.....you and a small army of other's would be all over the guy.....and my "combative comments" would look like a "stroll in the park" compared to what you and other's would be saying......just sayin' :lol


I think you're way over blowing this whole thing. But this part makes no sense (sorry I don't know how to quote properly):

"there's something about the left leg I just don't like", it is quite another to say it looks "feminine and weak" because now you are making it personal."

How is just declaring something you don't like MORE constructive than stating why? It isn't, you are wrong about this. And why is calling something feminine personal? It isn't. No one said Sauron's leg looks feminine so the artist is X, Y or Z. Now that would be personal.


And then this part:

"I do not have the slightest problem with someone preferring the PF pose being different than Jerry's art, but when people start referring to aspects of Jerry's pose as being "weak and feminine" without stating why they feel that way, or without stating how that issue can be addressed....those comments have gone well beyond "constructive criticism" and they result in the poster appearing lazy and/or dumb.....sorry."

People did state why they felt the post looked weak and feminine; it is the position of the left leg. Now I admit it is hard to define what feminine looks like. I used the example of the outstretched pinky while drinking tea (which you ignored). Its also hard to state what a power pose, hyper masculine appearance may be. You sort of know both when you see it don't you? How can it be addressed? Seriously you are criticizing people for not suggesting how it could addressed? The whole issue is about changing the pose in a way that evinces a more powerful, iconic pose. Above you even questioned the existence of an iconic pose didn't you, as if it one didn't exist? I can give you many examples of non-iconic poses for Sauron if you want them. One would be seated with his legs crossed.

Lazy and dumb, right. You've gone off the deep end.
 
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I also wonder how much of the base might be included or the detritus from the field as displayed in Jerry's artwork. Maybe the regular could come with second age numenorean and elven debris, and an exlcusive could have more antiquated armor. I just love the frontward facing pose, and I am looking to seeing the detail in 1/4 scale!


It is possible we will see some of the battle debris on the base, but it would be cool to possibly have two versions. Again though, these options would drive the cost up.

JV
 
It is possible we will see some of the battle debris on the base, but it would be cool to possibly have two versions. Again though, these options would drive the cost up.

JV

Using debris for the exclusive would be ideal. I agree the mace must stay.
 
I just love the detail that Jerry added with both the Numenorean and Elven helms and the shield. Maybe a switch out shield would be cool, one be elven or numenorean. I love all of the detail that adds to the scene, and I have a feeling that Sideshow won't disappoint when it comes to an interpretation of this artwork.
 
................

O....kay!

First off i missed the post by another user asking about your background.
And as to Jerrys artwork.... i haven't said anything negative. I love his work and have a few in my collection, so can you please explain the next part where you go on to say that i don't think highly of his work because he wasn't involved in the movies?
Seriously, if you're going to have a go at least do as much research as you demand other people do. Jerry is clearly a great guy and i'm sure he'll be amongst us for a long time yet!
And yes, i've been around here a long time and i know that combative posts (as you thankfully admit you do make) eventually become wearisome to the many.
 
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It is possible we will see some of the battle debris on the base, but it would be cool to possibly have two versions. Again though, these options would drive the cost up.

JV
Debris on the ground would be great.
With so much detail already going into the figure itself, it would be a shame if the floor didn't have that same amount of attention.

I just love me some details. :)
 
I think you're way over blowing this whole thing. But this part makes no sense (sorry I don't know how to quote properly):

"there's something about the left leg I just don't like", it is quite another to say it looks "feminine and weak" because now you are making it personal."

How is just declaring something you don't like MORE constructive than stating why? It isn't, you are wrong about this. And why is calling something feminine personal? It isn't. No one said Sauron's leg looks feminine so the artist is X, Y or Z. Now that would be personal.

Am I blowing things out of proportion....I don't know. :dunno What I do know is most of the SS artists that used to frequent this forum don't anymore. And I also know this is how it starts.

And considering how you are one of the guys who declared Jerry's pose as 'feminine" and "uniconic" I do understand your confusion. As much as every artist would like everyone to think their painting or sculpt is the "greatest thing since sliced bread", I think all are resigned to the fact not everyone will like or appreciate what they have done.....that's just par for the course. And while no artist likes to hear that some people dislike their art I think that attaching a label, in this instance, "feminine"....is much more insultive to the artist than saying nothing at all. As I'm pretty sure that's just about the last thing any artist trying to capture the essence [power, cruelty, and malice] of Sauron would want to hear. Seriously, how could you possibly think an artist, any artist, isn't going to take a comment like that personally? :confused:

And then this part:

"I do not have the slightest problem with someone preferring the PF pose being different than Jerry's art, but when people start referring to aspects of Jerry's pose as being "weak and feminine" without stating why they feel that way, or without stating how that issue can be addressed....those comments have gone well beyond "constructive criticism" and they result in the poster appearing lazy and/or dumb.....sorry."

People did state why they felt the post looked weak and feminine; it is the position of the left leg. Now I admit it is hard to define what feminine looks like. I used the example of the outstretched pinky while drinking tea (which you ignored). Its also hard to state what a power pose, hyper masculine appearance may be. You sort of know both when you see it don't you? How can it be addressed? Seriously you are criticizing people for not suggesting how it could addressed? The whole issue is about changing the pose in a way that evinces a more powerful, iconic pose. Above you even questioned the existence of an iconic pose didn't you, as if it one didn't exist? I can give you many examples of non-iconic poses for Sauron if you want them. One would be seated with his legs crossed.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.....it's the position of the left leg. How could I not see that? :lol So is it positioned too far to the left, or too close to center? Is the foot placement too high or too low. Should the toe point more upwards or more downwards? Will more or less shading on the left leg help matters at all? Or is it feminine for no other reason than you've decided it is?...Hmmm. Unfortunately, in spite of the in-depth, detailed explanation you've provided :monkey3 I still don't have the slightest clue as to how anything in this artwork could be perceived as "feminine".......but what do I know :huh

As for the iconic pose issue, here is what I actually said :

I understand what you're saying, the problem is you are never going to get everyone to agree on what constitutes the prefect pose. It's always going to come down to personal tastes or preferences which is why I always consider the issue of "which pose is more iconic?" as nonsense.

I think that's pretty self-explanatory.....or do you plan on informing us something is iconic when you say it is?

Lazy and dumb, right. You've gone off the deep end.

You really think you're in any position to determine whose gone off the deep end? Or is that a determination based on your own personal experience....having been there yourself. :lol

I do know that the 650 people that paid for the GTG PF exclusive or the 500 people who paid for the ML PF exclusive either have no taste or are teenagers. It boggles the mind really.
 
Originally Posted by cstojano
I do know that the 650 people that paid for the GTG PF exclusive or the 500 people who paid for the ML PF exclusive either have no taste or are teenagers. It boggles the mind really.


I am a tasteless teenager! :rock
 
Can you please point me to the post you quoted me about the ML and GTG PFs? I have no idea where that came from, not denying I said it but would like to read the context. Thread and page number would do, unless there is a search feature I don't know about.

EDIT: Finally found it, of course the Howe Smaug thread in which I was really cranky. Taken a but out of context because the statement was comparative, but yeah I was a jerk there :) Thanks for cherry picking my posts to paint me in a bad light though.

Let's take this one step at a time. You expect me to define feminine in words. All I can do is provide examples but this gets us very close to all sorts of issues with gender perceptions that make people uncomfortable. But since "feminine" is a gender issue, not sex, we have no choice.

1) I think it is considered feminine for a boy to run with his arms and legs in certain positions - usually involving too much flailing. Too much wrist movement is what makes it into the movies. Its basically joint looseness.

2) There is a feminine way to smoke a cigarette, you should know what I mean.

3) There is a feminine way to stand, I'm thinking hands on the hips, wrists touching pelvis even more so.

4) Skipping I imagine is considered feminine by many, for a boy that is. I know parents that won't let their sons wear red - too close to pink. They'd die if they saw them in full on skip.

This is all culturally mediated so it may differ from region to region (but I doubt it).

If you saw a guy in the bar doing the river dance, you know where the upper body doesn't move and they kick their hands by swinging their legs up and out - well I doubt that plays well in many parts of the USA college scene. Note that this kicking the leg up and out is sort of what we are talking about here.

Sauron is in the very early stages of a squatting posture with that left leg positioned that way, and a full squat is one step away from a stretch and a squatting stretch is one step away from a ballet move (which some consider feminine).

I still really like the art of course, but Woodsy wants details.
 
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48 pages and no pic of Sauron? If the ML is any indication, I'll need to wait on pics.
 
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