Scalping is discouraged on this forum, and so shouldn't all pro scalping posts also b

[Blackthornone]

You are advocating subjecting scalpers to fines and imprisonment because you couldn't get your precious art. You are advocating punishment to force them to involuntarily sacrifice the money they could earn so that you can have something you want, even though they got there first. You are willing to use physical force to take from another and give to yourself that which was not yours to begin with.

You are a predator, and a parasite, and I have that perfectly straight.

Imprisonment??? What are you talking about? Scalpers aren't worth incarcerating. I think the scalpers should just refund their profits to their buyers. That would be the ideal. Who said anything about physical force?? I didn't. Scalpers are willing to deprive others for their own benefit. Just because someone got there first doesn't necessarily make them more deserving of something. What is important is intent. WHY were they there first? To buy for themselves, for their own collections, or merely there to deprive other REAL and sincere collectors from buying them? The scalpers have only purchased to hold those collectibles hostage and force those other collectors to pay a premium for something that the other collectors could have had at the original price, if only the opportunistic, parasitic, sneaky and underhanded scalper hadn't gotten there before them.

 

[Blackthornone]

Concern for others does not make you moral. But from what I have read, it has made you pompous as hell. You have boasted that you are ethically, intellectually, and artistically superior to anyone who has disagreed with your opinions. When questioned, you explain how you know you're superior, and then use that as validation of your point of view. Argumentum ad verecundiam. It is the first informal fallacy they teach in introductory logic courses. Maybe you should take one.

Concern for others makes you more moral than someone who has no concern for others. It certainly makes you more ethical, but perhaps you don't like that scalpers are considered unethical, because you like to defend the behavior, just because it's legal, and accepted by some people as an acceptable way to make money. Not everyone agrees. The only thing you can really argue in favor of scalping is that it is legal, possible, and financially profitable. So was compulsory slavery at one time. That does not make it moral.
Disregard for others makes you immoral. That's what morality is about. I have said that my argument is a superior one. Why don't you show me where I said I was superior as well?

 

[devilof76]

Imprisonment??? What are you talking about? Scalpers aren't worth incarcerating.

I'm talking about this.

Scalpers are only free by law, but that may change someday.

I think the scalpers should just refund their profits to their buyers. That would be the ideal. Who said anything about physical force?? I didn't.

You just did. Again. You think the police are going to ask them nicely to give those profits back? And I suppose that if the scalper refuses, the police will just say, "Thank you anyway. Have a nice day." No, they won't be employing any physical force, implied or explicit, will they?

Scalpers are willing to deprive others for their own benefit.

You deprive someone of a statue every time you buy one, and presumably for your own benefit. Or do you think your purchases are somehow feeding the hungry and sheltering the homeless?

Just because someone got there first doesn't necessarily make them more deserving of something.

Yes it does. It's called a market. When someone buys something, it becomes theirs. Purchasing power is the determinant of who deserves what.

What is important is intent. WHY were they there first? To buy for themselves, for their own collections, or merely there to deprive other REAL and sincere collectors from buying them? The scalpers have only purchased to hold those collectibles hostage and force those other collectors to pay a premium for something that the other collectors could have had at the original price, if only the opportunistic, parasitic, sneaky and underhanded scalper hadn't gotten there before them.

In your opinion. Your estimate of their actions has no basis in any fact other than the fact that you don't like what they do; it is based on whim, personal preference, and the logical ineptitude of a spoiled brat.

Your use of the word predator to describe scalping is hyperbole. It is metaphor. Your intentions come across as literal predation, and all of your pretense at moral authority is just so much hot air cooked up to hide that fact (from yourself as much as from the rest of us).

 

[nash]

Concern for others makes you more moral than someone who has no concern for others. It certainly makes you more ethical, but perhaps you don't like that scalpers are considered unethical, because you like to defend the behavior, just because it's legal, and accepted by some people as an acceptable way to make money. Not everyone agrees. The only thing you can really argue in favor of scalping is that it is legal, possible, and financially profitable. So was compulsory slavery at one time. That does not make it moral.
Disregard for others makes you immoral. That's what morality is about. I have said that my argument is a superior one. Why don't you show me where I said I was superior as well?

It's apparent that no logic or reasoning, no matter how sound is going to change your ridiculous belief system.

I dont even need to post this because 99% of the people here already know what a fascist and pompous D-bag you are with your high and mighty 'ethical' approach...

BUt just since im bored and having a few brews i'll post it.

I've done more for people on forums than you have ever done. I've helped countless people out by selling them things at cost or just a tad above cost to make back what I paid plus shipping and fees etc. This is here, rebelscum, rpf, and statueforum. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO HELP ANOTHER COLLECTOR OUT? NOTHING.

All you do is come here and spew your bullsht about how flippers are evil and how every flipper must be rolling in profits etc etc etc. your ignorance is only one sided. You think flipping is so easy, i'd love to see you try your hand at it and be successful. First of all, it DOES take money to buy things, not to mention multiples of something. Secondly, less than 10% of anything bought has potential to raise a profit. Ive bought just as many items that i lost money on and just as many that ive made money on. Your approach seems to be that any item a flipper touches turns to gold.

And as far as your stance on conern for others. I have a few people here who i actually consider friends, but everyone else is just an acquaintance. Youre going to sit there on your high horse and honestly tell me that you actually CARE for people (strangers) here to sell them things below what they are worth? give me a break, that is the biggest crock of ____. There have been members of this forum who have hit rough times, I dont see you coming to their aid to help them with some financial relief. now all of a sudden your high horse doesnt seem to high after all. you're just all talk and an attention whore.

 

[devilof76]

Concern for others makes you more moral than someone who has no concern for others.

No it doesn't. And I can think of a hundred 20th century dictators that prove your statement false.

It certainly makes you more ethical, but perhaps you don't like that scalpers are considered unethical, because you like to defend the behavior, just because it's legal, and accepted by some people as an acceptable way to make money. Not everyone agrees.

And they shouldn't have to agree.

I don't care if people think they are unethical, and they don't either. But they would certainly have no other choice if it was illegal, would they?

The only thing you can really argue in favor of scalping is that it is legal, possible, and financially profitable.

I can argue that it is perfectly moral, actually. (I'm pretty sure nash just did.) Particularly since it is financially profitable and requires no compulsion on the part of the seller against the buyer.

So was compulsory slavery at one time. That does not make it moral.

And the only thing that made slavery evil was the fact that it was compulsory.

Disregard for others makes you immoral. That's what morality is about. I have said that my argument is a superior one.

It is not what morality qua morality is about. It is what your particular choice of morality is about. Morality is the product of ethics, and ethics is the branch of philosophy that studies fundamental values, i.e. those values that make all other values possible. It does not select one isolated ethical theory and conflate it with the entire science. Contrary to your limited knowledge of the field, altruism is not the only morality out there.

Why don't you show me where I said I was superior as well?

I don't have time for that many quotes. Why don't you ask everyone else?

 

[Blackthornone]

It's apparent that no logic or reasoning, no matter how sound is going to change your ridiculous belief system.

I dont even need to post this because 99% of the people here already know what a fascist and pompous D-bag you are with your high and mighty 'ethical' approach...

BUt just since im bored and having a few brews i'll post it.

I've done more for people on forums than you have ever done. I've helped countless people out by selling them things at cost or just a tad above cost to make back what I paid plus shipping and fees etc. This is here, rebelscum, rpf, and statueforum. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO HELP ANOTHER COLLECTOR OUT? NOTHING.

All you do is come here and spew your bullsht about how flippers are evil and how every flipper must be rolling in profits etc etc etc. your ignorance is only one sided. You think flipping is so easy, i'd love to see you try your hand at it and be successful. First of all, it DOES take money to buy things, not to mention multiples of something. Secondly, less than 10% of anything bought has potential to raise a profit. Ive bought just as many items that i lost money on and just as many that ive made money on. Your approach seems to be that any item a flipper touches turns to gold.

And as far as your stance on conern for others. I have a few people here who i actually consider friends, but everyone else is just an acquaintance. Youre going to sit there on your high horse and honestly tell me that you actually CARE for people (strangers) here to sell them things below what they are worth? give me a break, that is the biggest crock of ____. There have been members of this forum who have hit rough times, I dont see you coming to their aid to help them with some financial relief. now all of a sudden your high horse doesnt seem to high after all. you're just all talk and an attention whore.

So you sold some things at cost or near cost. That isn't scalping. I am talking about scalping. You are interpreting my argument as personal.
I never said all scalpers were rolling in profits or rich. I said that the profits that they do make, whatever their size is, is unethical.
I never said I was rich, either. I'm not, so I am not in a position to offer others financial relief.

Speaking of being an attention whore, what are all of those quick posts about you getting 3 of something about? Could it be attention whoring? How about those quick snippy comments you frequently make to others that offer little but a sort of insult?

 

[EVILFACE]

Somebody musta missed out on a toy.

 

[nash]

So you sold some things at cost or near cost. That isn't scalping. I am talking about scalping. You are interpreting my argument as personal.
I never said all scalpers were rolling in profits or rich. I said that the profits that they do make, whatever their size is, is unethical.
I never said I was rich, either. I'm not, so I am not in a position to offer others financial relief.

Speaking of being an attention whore, what are all of those quick posts about you getting 3 of something about? Could it be attention whoring? How about those quick snippy comments you frequently make to others that offer little but a sort of insult?

meh...you're f'n boring as f... You talk a big game, but when I ask you what have you done for your fellow collectors, oh superhero of the forum? you don't have ____ to say.

Yeah, i do have 3 white elektras btw.

 

[creecher]

I find it discouraging that some people are trying to tear Blackthornone down because they aren't able to absorb where he happens to be coming from. That they resort to intimidation and dismissal without necessarily knowing why they feel this way but still choose to throw stones without proper reason to back up their claims.

I may not agree with what Blackthornone expounds, but then again I don't have to live in his shoes, and neither do many of his detractors, so why not open your minds and try to understand or, as many have called for, avoid this thread. I don't mind, and rather like having my thoughts and processes challenged. I might and have learned something outside of the bubble I live in, for which I can only have some assemblance of gratitude for, but that's just me.

One thing you have to admit is, that while many of his posts raise ire in yourselves and you reply emotionally or not, he has always been able to conduct himself civilly, and against the odds. I can't say the same for myself unfortunately, so he has something I can learn from and will admit to admiring. The world isn't a rosey place for me even though I am lucky enough to live in a rosey society. At a minimum he provokes thought and a differing aspect from which to gain perspective. He's not a predator and 'scalpers' are, as well as being parasites, but parasites have a right to live and seek out their existence as best they can, so in this society I bear them no ill will. It's a dog eat dog world and that's no lie. We all have choices, many of which we put no thought into. Socrates was a gadfly and so was his successor Plato, but I have no time for them. Aristotle is someone I can more readily align myself to. The system we have, that Blackthornone is apparently against, was born from the fundamentals of Socrates and Plato. One day the world will rebel and hopefully base a new world order upon a more Aristotlonian (is that even a word) foundation. Rather than go on with this philosophical discussion I'll just end here.

Like a train wreck, I must say, I can't avoid this thread, at least while it's open.

 

[nash]

I find it discouraging that some people are trying to tear Blackthornone down because they aren't able to absorb where he happens to be coming from. That they resort to intimidation and dismissal without necessarily knowing why they feel this way but still choose to throw stones without proper reason to back up their claims.

I may not agree with what Blackthornone expounds, but then again I don't have to live in his shoes, and neither do many of his detractors, so why not open your minds and try to understand or, as many have called for, avoid this thread. I don't mind, and rather like having my thoughts and processes challenged. I might and have learned something outside of the bubble I live in, for which I can only have some assemblance of gratitude for, but that's just me.

One thing you have to admit is, that while many of his posts raise ire in yourselves and you reply emotionally or not, he has always been able to conduct himself civilly, and against the odds. I can't say the same for myself unfortunately, so he has something I can learn from and will admit to admiring. The world isn't a rosey place for me even though I am lucky enough to live in a rosey society. At a minimum he provokes thought and a differing aspect from which to gain perspective. He's not a predator and 'scalpers' are, as well as being parasites, but parasites have a right to live and seek out their existence as best they can, so in this society I bear them no ill will. It's a dog eat dog world and that's no lie. We all have choices, many of which we put no thought into. Socrates was a gadfly and so was his successor Plato, but I have no time for them. Aristotle is someone I can more readily align myself to. The system we have, that Blackthornone is apparently against, was born from the fundamentals of Socrates and Plato. One day the world will rebel and hopefully base a new world order upon a more Aristotlonian (is that even a word) foundation. Rather than go on with this philosophical discussion I'll just end here.

Like a train wreck, I must say, I can't avoid this thread, at least while it's open.

I partially see what you are saying creecher, but honestly i lack any reason to respect the guy. and intimidation? where?

Also, you must be new to this guy and his posts. He frequently trolls the marvel section and spews his garbage everywhere even when it's not needed. maybe people are just tired of hearing him stand on his soapbox. It would be one thing if he led by example, but like i said, he doesnt do anything to help the fellow collector. all he does is run his internet mouth and tell people how much better he thinks he is compared to them.

 

[creecher]

G'day nash. Thanks for your understanding of my ramblings.

You are absolutely correct in your evaluation of my not having had much previous experience of his postings, so I apologise to those who I've falsely accused of being trite and condescending in the nature of your involvement in this thread. I am clearly out of the loop. I can see how lengthy posts can be arduous to ingest, of which I am guilty of myself. I'm lucky I don't frequent the Star Wars and Marvel threads. Some of the replies were, I feel, unnecessary and inexplicable and written to intimidate Blackthornone by way of goading a more emotional response, which wasn't forthcoming in any case. I'm just as guilty of much of the offenses I tout, as you would know. Yes I'm sorry for that too.

Still, I can't help barrack for the underdog, when I feel that dog has some merit. We all have our foibles, so I shouldn't really be accusing anyone of anything, bur sometimes the temptation is too much to resist. I am weak and have little resistance to little plastic men and putting my foot in my mouth, as everyone knows .

When you first arrived on the board I used to think you were, shall we say, brash, and you still can be. It can take a while to know someone better and where they come from, and I accept and rather enjoy some of your more poignant posts and realise your sense of humour and are able to laugh along with you, rather than get worked up. I didn't get there on my own, and had the help of other members. I'm not sucking up, just trying to bring back some harmony. See Dave, I'm trying to improve things around here. Now that's sucking up. I can only hope the same happens here, but it looks like a long road.

I will try to aspire to shorter posts. After all these years I still don't know how Bodie does it. The apprentice always remains the masters apprentice.

 

[devilof76]

People who write short posts make me jealous. I could never get it all out with that kind of concision. Then again, I have a really big mouth.

I'm not trying to intimidate Blackthornone. I realize I have a problem with keeping my hostility in check, but my intent is not to scare him into agreement. That would be pointless. Unless he understands why he's wrong, he'll never understand why he's wrong.

However, I have no expectations that he will change his mind, so I'm left with either the option of ignoring him, or letting his assertions go unchallenged. The first always seems easy enough, until the second becomes an issue. Like you said creecher, this society is a Socratic/Platonic one (pretty much the whole world) and it should be Aristotelian. I happen to think the difference is one of life or death, so I fight for it when the chance presents itself, futile as the fight may seem. If you measure by rounds won, Plato is very much the reigning champ.

For that reason, I can empathize with your empathy for the underdog. That's why I don't back off, or pull punches, or sweet talk. My goal is to win, because an underdog who has earned it deserves nothing less. I'm sorry if it hurts Blackthornone's feelings. Atleast I don't think there should be a law against him.

 

[creecher]

I certainly didn't mean for you to feel any of that post, to include yourself devil. Half the time I don't bother posting because you've already said what I was going to say. Except for that one time you copied and pasted before I could get it out.

 

[devilof76]

I promise to show more empathy for your locational handicap in the future.

And I won't steal anymore of your posts either.

 

[creecher]

It's not so much the location being a handicap, as much as it is the technology being sub par. If it's only posts, steal what you can, and revel when I complain, but it's too late for that as I see you already are. Always one step ahead.

I get the impression Blackthornone likes to defend his position even if he can comprehend peoples opinions. I guess we all do to some extent.

 

[devilof76]

I get that impression too. And I can empathize, because I've got my ass kicked here more times than I like to admit.

C'est la vie.

 

[Blackthornone]

I partially see what you are saying creecher, but honestly i lack any reason to respect the guy. and intimidation? where?

Also, you must be new to this guy and his posts. He frequently trolls the marvel section and spews his garbage everywhere even when it's not needed. maybe people are just tired of hearing him stand on his soapbox. It would be one thing if he led by example, but like i said, he doesnt do anything to help the fellow collector. all he does is run his internet mouth and tell people how much better he thinks he is compared to them.

I don't troll. I peruse and discuss the collectible, and then speak of scalping ONLY when someone else brags about the fact that they have more than one EX, or that they are going to scalp, ect. I NEVER start up posting about the evils of scalping without provocation by someone else, making a glib comment, obviously intended entirely to stir up things, or to irritate people, which is what trolling is, which is what YOU do. You say, you have 3 EXs, or you will make some other comment deliberately intended to aggravate others. I just respond to that. Trolls are the ones who go into threads and start stuff. I am just there to try and respond to what the troll says and finish it. Jbinny also makes posts bragging about getting multiples, obviously with the intent to aggravate others. Bodie the Cursed trolls too, because he comes along frequently in a thread and says something negative, whether it be about a piece or about a person, as he did in mine. I never go into any thread and start anything. Furthermore, I never post in any thread I have no interest in as some people do, just to make a comment about how they have no interest because they aren't into that genre. What are they even doing in that section then????

As far as helping other collectors, I think it's a great idea, but I don't talk about helping them. I just talk about not hurting them. There is an important distinction there. I never claimed That I was actively taking a role in pursuing or championing the cause of actually helping my fellow collector. I am certainly not against it, and I approve of it, but I never claimed that I actually was doing it. Therefore, it wasn't like I was making claims I wasn't backing up.

I don't talk about how I am better than anyone. I always lecture in the abstract, and talk about ideas and beliefs and practices. I talk about how scalping is bad, but I don't say that any particular person is bad, as some people do. I never resort to personal insults like some people do, or post pictures intended to harass or belittle or make fun of, as a few have done to me in the past here. I talk about how my viewpoint is better than other people's viewpoint, but that is a far cry from actually asserting that I am better.
Yes, in this post I did get a bit personal, but I stuck to the facts about the behavior of certain people here, with the intent to put things in perspective. The three names I mentioned I'm sure aren't the only ones, and I'm sorry if I unfairly singled them out, but they were the first to come to mind.
I want everyone to know that even though I don't share certain views on a certain topic, I appreciate and respect it when people I argue with keep the conversation civil, and on the argument, and do not resort to personal attacks. "Something Sexy", quadcent, Skiman, The Mike, and many others have kept it civil in my memory, as well as many others, and I really do appreciate that. Sorry to leave people out. There is a much longer list of the positive people.

 

[marsattack]

in one day this tread has moved 20 pages, I might start advertising here !!!
Mars

 

[creecher]

It all depends on what you have you user settings set at. That's why it's better to indicate a post number rather than a page number. As far as I know we are on page 14.

 

[316what]

...SCALPERS WHO HAD NO PART IN THE CREATIVE PROCESS AND THEREFORE DON"T DESERVE A DAMN DIME OF PROFIT FROM SAME. Scalpers are basically parasites that swoop in and profit from the labors of the artists who want people to appreciate their work and make a living doing so.

But what about the others who had no part in the creative process and yet profit from it? Are they deserving or not?

Scalpers are simply not really entitled to profit from the great work of artists. Scalpers are the philistines of the collectibles hobby.
Art is little cool bits of junk? I think not!

In a Capitalistic society, everyone is entitled to profit if they can. And what about artists who produce great work of unlicensed products?

People who buy things to keep are buying them out of the most direct and simple motivation.

You're way off base on this one. The most direct and simple motivations are those of necessity: food, shelter, survival. Collectibles do not fit into any of those categories. Try again.