Side by side comparison thread!

[elar]

Okay, but both want copy DDL likeness...not copy one other sculpt...

 

[transhi100]

That may be the denotation of the word copy, but clearly the connotation is a negative one. If you insist that the artist took Rainman's sculpt as the model, why couldn't it be in a positive light, as in this new sculpt is a tribute to Rainman's? But either way the debate on the intent of the Anonymous artist is ridiculous, I don't think any one of us are mind readers.

 

[PopCultKid]

I don't have time to catch up on this thread. Please mods, don't clean it up until tomorrow night

 

[PopCultKid]

Quickly I'll just add that I see glaring differences between the two sculpts and the only thing that stands out as the same about them is the character

 

[turbo.VS.ozone]

Okay, but both want copy DDL likeness...not copy one other sculpt...

Elar we're talking about somthing more specific than a broad generalization of this word. This isnt some kind of philisophical debate. We're talking about the specifics of sculpts! 1/6 sculpts and sculpt details used that either constitute an original because a technique or detail was applied first or a reproduction because that technique or detail was borrowed and used afterward. You can't say that sculpts are copies of a cinematic image because it doesn't fit the criteria defined under that word. But to be made similar or reproduced exactly can describe a recast of a sculpt or a copy of a sculpt especially if it is similar. As I said before it looks like Anynomous was influenced more by Rainmans sculpt then by anything else. At least 5 design details I can pick out that are strikingly similar to Rainmans sculpt design. Does that mean that's bad, no, it show's how much talent he has if he can get that close to trying to achieve a Rainman Level DDL likeness (based on an opinion that Rainmans captures more likeness, detail etc.), but to take offense at a critique and not acknowledge that it very much looks like a copy because no effort was put forth (design wise) to distinguish it from another. The only way you can tell it's different is because it misses the mark on likeness, things like most notably the nose.

 

[Leon 911]

Sir... Can i say something... Its not a copy... Its a bill headsculpt.... And both rainman and this one are a replication of bills likeness. Not sure how it would be a copy of one sculpt over another. A bill sculpt will look similar to bill (hope so and thats the reason we are going bankrupt each month - for the love of the likeness) .... Both sculpts are recreation of bill or rather DDL in 1/6 form... Both will look same, both will be identical, both will have same features, same eyes, nose etc... So they are not a copy.Now, If RM had imagined bill a certain way, different from how DDL looked in the movie, something very different, Unique, and completely off the charts.. .. And if someone copied that imagination, IT WLD B A COPY... But this sir is not... For instance "samurai predator" which was a different predator and an artists imagination and now if someone replicated that it would be a copy. If hot toys and neca made 2 classic predators, sir they are not a copy of each other.

You are going by dictionary definition of copy... In that case only the original sculpt that the artist makes is not a copy and rest many a times are 3d printed so they are also a copy...u are now suddenly changing the essence of what you meant by "copy" ... U meant the artist has merely copied RMs creation without imagination etc... And that sir is not true even if he was inspired by how RM did it... This sir is not a copy... If anything it says this guy and i dont know who he is, is very capable and talented that the sculpt is standing shoulder to shoulder to RM art...

This is the definition of the word:

And this is what we're debating:

If your attempting to artistically create something EXACTLY like something that already exists how else would you define it? I don't understand why some of y'all refuse to admit this. It's not philosophical..it's defined in black and white!

 

[turbo.VS.ozone]

That may be the denotation of the word copy, but clearly the connotation is a negative one. If you insist that the artist took Rainman's sculpt as the model, why couldn't it be in a positive light, as in this new sculpt is a tribute to Rainman's? But either way the debate on the intent of the Anonymous artist is ridiculous, I don't think any one of us are mind readers.

Thats a very good point on connotations and commenting on it in a more positive light. But if I'm going to be held to that standard then why didn't Axe do the very same on his sculptors behalf when he presented it as a For Sale offering? There was nothing that suggested that this Anonymous artist was or may have been inspired by Rainmans early work on this or that he wanted to pay small tribute to a classic sculpt by contributing his own interpretation of it but yet it's attempting to be so strikingly similar. No, instead people got teased with it inorder to test out the waters and than it was presented for sale with no subtle acknowledgment to Rainmans work, no gesture of the sort. I was taken back by how it kind of felt like some sort of challenge to the mans efforts. But your right, we don't read minds so how was I supposed to know that Axe was going to be so deeply offended that I as well as some others shared the opinion that it kinda looked like a copy of Rainmans or that the likeness looked a bit off and then have our comments deleted. Was it so threating to share that opinion? Was Axe trying to pass that sculpts expression and those details like the mustache stems as somthing original?

Think of it this way, how do you suppose Rainman feels when he looks at the Anonymous sculpt? Is it possible that he might question why it attempts to look so much like his? That it kinda borrows off of his ideas? He probably does not care, he might be flattered, but isn't there a possibility that he might be bothered by it a bit?

 

[Leon 911]

^^^ is there a possibility that DDL, the license team and anyone who could have made even 1$ off licensing and or sale of the RM bill get offended if they see RM made 50k or whatever that amount is or more on it ... Or for that matter in any custom figure scenario...

There are some rules on which the custom creation thrives... Usually anything grey is black in my books but i left that logic away when i entered the custom buyer world. So, let's not chose to throw stones on one aspect than another. From where i see it, if a figure is not a licensed figure its wrong to begin with (i live with it) , i enjoy it (yes unfortunately) and if someone does as good a job as RM on a sculpt, he (rm, iminime, etc) better live with it...

We cant, based on our convenience bend and adapt the rules of right and wrong from one scenario over another, even if this was a case of copy, which it is not...

 

[turbo.VS.ozone]

I don't have time to catch up on this thread. Please mods, don't clean it up until tomorrow night

Thanks for reminding me its time to wrap this up.
Maidana VS. Mayweather tonight....GO MONEY!



Fellas, enough with all these off tangent remarks, which sculpt do you think achieved a better likeness? Bill by Rainman or Bill by MajesticX12 or whatever.
Simple question that was the basis of my first post on page 5. Stick to the script fellas.

 

[elar]

Think of it this way, how do you suppose Rainman feels when he looks at the Anonymous sculpt? Is it possible that he might question why it attempts to look so much like his? That it kinda borrows off of his ideas? He probably does not care, he might be flattered, but isn't there a possibility that he might be bothered by it a bit?

On other side, MJ12 side, why not make headsculpt for scene, which already have nice clothes?

For me this discussion is same like the egg or chicken...which came first.... First likeness come from DDL photos or from RM headsculpt?

 

[Lejuan]

Trademarked or licensed... irony for the win

Excuse me trademark patent as in patented by Rainman or License as in licensed by another company for it's exclusive use from Rainman. Both parties can show up and sue the **** out of Axe if this were official.

This not being a true scenario however still doesnt mean it isn't a copy, because it is.

The irony lies in bringing trademarks and licenses into a discussion about unlicensed sculpts. This is separate from the recast issue, where one artist's work is reproduced by another person without the permission of that artist. This scenario involves two artists sculpting the one character, where - correct me if I'm wrong - neither of the artists is licensed to do so.

In this context you are carrying on about RM somehow being hardly done by because another artist has allegedly copied his sculpt. No such indignation on behalf of the actor whose likeness is being reproduced for profit, or other license stakeholders. Sounds kinda shrill to me.

 

[jago72]

Snyder-man's Pulp Fiction heads painted by Silent Surfer. There are a few close ups in Gruff Old Bear's collection thread and Silent Surfer's paint commission thread.

holy s*** outstanding..

Thanks for posting! So much better than RM's imo.

a lot better..nothing to compare...

 

[robbiethepainter]

Not that any of this amounts to more than just a discussion, but I copied Rainman's shoes and hat. Flat out. Held his in my hand and tried to replicate what he had done. Do I feel I have wronged him, no way. I could have easily made molds of his and recast them, but I feel I did the right thing and made my own. Are mine as good as Rainman's? Shoes, not even close. His stuff is so clean, its like they have been printed. Hat, I think I got him on fit, but once again is stuff is so clean. The man is a machine. I feel like a clunky amateur.

Most well know art schools either have collections of original works of art or are located right next to museums that do. The reason is because students study and copy master's work. That's how they learn. Is that the case here? I don't know, but I see similarities between the two sculpts. Its the main reason I don't want one. Not that it's better or worse, copied or original. They just look the same. Mike had done a smaller unfinished version of Plainview that he was kind enough to give me that I hope to one day copy into a full size, finished version of the Butcher and Plainview. You can see it really has very little in common with Rainman's other than the subject matter. When I look at the other sculpt, I too see similarities beyond the subject matter. Doesn't make it inferior, just similar. The tone seems to be the same.

Just my opinion.

 

[Leon 911]

Bulls eye! ... I see such hypocrisy i tell you...
Worries me ... cause my assumption is that most people here are extremely educated and can decipher one vs another...albeit...

The irony lies in bringing trademarks and licenses into a discussion about unlicensed sculpts. This is separate from the recast issue, where one artist's work is reproduced by another person without the permission of that artist. This scenario involves two artists sculpting the one character, where - correct me if I'm wrong - neither of the artists is licensed to do so.

In this context you are carrying on about RM somehow being hardly done by because another artist has allegedly copied his sculpt. No such indignation on behalf of the actor whose likeness is being reproduced for profit, or other license stakeholders. Sounds kinda shrill to me.

 

[Lakhota]

Most well know art schools either have collections of original works of art or are located right next to museums that do. The reason is because students study and copy master's work. That's how they learn.

We should be happy this woman isn't doing Bill the Butcher head sculpts

A 19th century Spanish fresco has been ruined after a good Samaritan attempted a DIY restoration of the artwork.

 

[Godfather1408]

Not that any of this amounts to more than just a discussion, but I copied Rainman's shoes and hat. Flat out. Held his in my hand and tried to replicate what he had done. Do I feel I have wronged him, no way. I could have easily made molds of his and recast them, but I feel I did the right thing and made my own. Are mine as good as Rainman's? Shoes, not even close. His stuff is so clean, its like they have been printed. Hat, I think I got him on fit, but once again is stuff is so clean. The man is a machine. I feel like a clunky amateur.

Most well know art schools either have collections of original works of art or are located right next to museums that do. The reason is because students study and copy master's work. That's how they learn. Is that the case here? I don't know, but I see similarities between the two sculpts. Its the main reason I don't want one. Not that it's better or worse, copied or original. They just look the same. Mike had done a smaller unfinished version of Plainview that he was kind enough to give me that I hope to one day copy into a full size, finished version of the Butcher and Plainview. You can see it really has very little in common with Rainman's other than the subject matter. When I look at the other sculpt, I too see similarities beyond the subject matter. Doesn't make it inferior, just similar. The tone seems to be the same.

Just my opinion.

I actually agree with this I disagree on how you say the quality isn't as good because the work is outstanding!
Every artist is entitled to trying to do a sculpt....... You don't see one's custom and Beto *****ing at each other because there Freddy's have the same expression?
At the end of the day yes rainmans sculpt is nice but so is the is the other one! It's not like the artist recasted it and put the hat details on is it?

I think all this arguing needs to stop you are grown men and this is about showing the love for the art forum! Stop being so god dam bitter and show some respect!
Personally I like both! Both have a artistic look to them and I will be getting both sculpts when I have the dough!

 

[Godfather1408]

We should be happy this woman isn't doing Bill the Butcher head sculpts

A 19th century Spanish fresco has been ruined after a good Samaritan attempted a DIY restoration of the artwork.
View attachment 107469

Haha this had me in stitches! Much prefer the new one

 

[marlindesign]

Both are exceptional sculpts, and both artists should be proud to have them in their portfolio of work.

 

[mg2065]

God, I hate that plainview sculpt. I did that a few years back when I was learning to sculpt in wax. I didn't realize how bad it was until I picked up a butcher sculpt from rainman's site after I joined the forum. One of the many reasons I collect Rainman's artwork is because he is better than me.

I think rainman's and Adam's work are first class. no doubt about it. if you handed someone a rainman sculpt and said 'now make me something just like this', 9 times out of 10 you're going to get something that looks like what I sculpted above. The mustache is where it should be, yes the eyes are squinting, but what is off? Rainman, Trevor and others have that X factor. It takes a great artist to take a lump of wax or clay and turn it into something amazing (no matter what reference material they were given).

 

[axecutioner18]

Thats a very good point on connotations and commenting on it in a more positive light. But if I'm going to be held to that standard then why didn't Axe do the very same on his sculptors behalf when he presented it as a For Sale offering? There was nothing that suggested that this Anonymous artist was or may have been inspired by Rainmans early work on this or that he wanted to pay small tribute to a classic sculpt by contributing his own interpretation of it but yet it's attempting to be so strikingly similar. No, instead people got teased with it inorder to test out the waters and than it was presented for sale with no subtle acknowledgment to Rainmans work, no gesture of the sort. I was taken back by how it kind of felt like some sort of challenge to the mans efforts. But your right, we don't read minds so how was I supposed to know that Axe was going to be so deeply offended that I as well as some others shared the opinion that it kinda looked like a copy of Rainmans or that the likeness looked a bit off and then have our comments deleted. Was it so threating to share that opinion? Was Axe trying to pass that sculpts expression and those details like the mustache stems as somthing original?

Think of it this way, how do you suppose Rainman feels when he looks at the Anonymous sculpt? Is it possible that he might question why it attempts to look so much like his? That it kinda borrows off of his ideas? He probably does not care, he might be flattered, but isn't there a possibility that he might be bothered by it a bit?

Hahaha! So now when you see no support from anyone whatsoever you choose to push your mini tirade and crusade on me?!!

So because it was a Bill sculpt, 'I HAVE to say a tribute to Rainman', or 'Rainman is the best, but here is something I saw'? Why not the same with Scott's BRawler? So guys beware, if you show a sculpt of a character who has been done before by multiple artists. Be sure to eulogise them all before posting its picture. Or else His lordship the righter of all moral wrongs for artists worldide Sir turbo.VS.ozone will deem and sentence your sculpt as a disrispectful copy.

Unbelievable, after all this nagging and moaning, reprimading from mods etc etc, this is now all my fault?!! :