STAR WARS: EP. I--The Phantom Menace in 3D: 2/10/12

[jye4ever]

Qui-gon should have just killed Watto, freed Anakin and his mother while swiping the parts he needed and preventing this whole Vader mess from ever occurring...

The 2 Minute Menace.

I don't even know if it would take that long, lets see:

Arrive Tatooine
Ignite Lightsaber
Cut Wato in 2
Steal
Take Shmi and Brat
Leave Tatooine

Fin

 

[CollectorNC]

Anakin also had a dream where Padme led a great army. That never panned out either (and no the end of AOTC doesn't count).

I had a dream once, that TPM never came out in 1999, and that AOTC never came out in 2002 and ROTS never came out in 2005. Best dream evah.

 

[Khev]

Its always been strange to me that George was so specific about how midichlorians worked and then yet vague about the "Prophecy of the Chosen One" that was such a supposedly major issue for the PT and possibly the saga.

In TPM and AOTC they never actually say what bringing balance to the Force means, what it means to have it out of balance, and why it would ever go out of balance in the first place.

Connecting some of the doubts due to my own geeky fanboyness it seems that based on Obi-Wan's comments to Anakin on Mustafar bringing balance to the Force simply means to destroy the Sith. Okay fine, so the existence of Sith throws things out of balance and diminishes certain abilities of the Jedi.

If only the "Chosen One" is going to take out the Sith why is there never a discussion about how the Jedi were going to let Anakin actually do that? The OT was all about stating plans of attack (whether it was the Rebels vs. a space station, Rebels escaping Hoth, or Yoda and Ben's plans for Luke to learn the Force and destroy Vader) before the respective heroes would try to execute them.

Regardless of how much Anakin is liked or disliked on a personal level it seems that if the Force itself conceived him at just the right time so that he'd be an adult when the Sith rose to power that all the Jedi would have to concern themselves was 1.) locating the Sith and 2.) cutting Anakin loose and saying "have at him."

But you just don't get that that's even in the Jedis' heads with the possible exception of Obi-Wan Kenobi. Mace Windu's death could have been presented as a great "Isildur moment" where his ego wouldn't let Anakin interfere because *he* wanted the glory of destroying the Sith which would add extra poignancy to Obi-Wan's sacrifice on the Death Star. One tried to do it himself against the will of the prophecy and the other let himself die so that he wouldn't bring balance in an inappropriate way. As it stands we can all assume that's how it played out but assuming that's the case I don't really think its something many pick up on and I don't like the idea of filling in gaps with musings that I, as opposed to the filmmaker, had to come up with myself based on the limited information at hand.

 

[Khev]

The 2 Minute Menace.

I don't even know if it would take that long, lets see:

Arrive Tatooine
Ignite Lightsaber
Cut Wato in 2
Steal
Take Shmi and Brat
Leave Tatooine

Fin

Forget Tatooine. Instead of fleeing from the droidekas just hold out their hands, use the Force to crush the droids inside the shields or fling them into each other and then proceed to cut through to the bridge and capture Gunray. No Tatooine, no Empire, the end.

 

[CollectorNC]

Its always been strange to me that George was so specific about how midichlorians worked and then yet vague about the "Prophecy of the Chosen One" that was such a supposedly major issue for the PT and possibly the saga.

In TPM and AOTC they never actually say what bringing balance to the Force means, what it means to have it out of balance, and why it would ever go out of balance in the first place.

Exactly. I guess one could assume that in the OT, Luke brought balance to the force by returning Anakin to the light side or that Anakin himself brought balance back to the force by choosing the light side and betraying the Emperor. With that logic, I guess Anakin unbalanced the force when he gave into the dark side. (Damn, I sound like Lucas making this sh8t up.)

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'm not sure I followed all that but I narrowed my understanding of that question to its seed idea: Palpatine is the unbalanced aspect and it is ironically Anakin, who really tilts the force out of balance for awhile as Vader, who ultimately is the "one" who will rid the force of this anomoly.

Star Wars only works in broad strokes. It never worked under scrutiny. Not even the first one, starting with engine roars in space.

 

[jye4ever]

Forget Tatooine. Instead of fleeing from the droidekas just hold out their hands, use the Force to crush the droids inside the shields or fling them into each other and then proceed to cut through to the bridge and capture Gunray. No Tatooine, no Empire, the end.

But that removes Wato getting cut into 2

 

[Coheteboy]

Haha, that would be very un-Jedi of Qui-Gon to cut Watto down.

But you guys are raising some good points. I never fully understood what "balance" meant. Is balance to have nothing but light side of the force? Possibly, and that makes sense. Balance to the Force could be code to World Peace or something like that.


And what I like about Ep1 (and there's a lot that I do like), is that it sets up a lot of things that I was looking forward to seeing. The way Anakin says that he's going to see all the stars, the way he's going to come back and free all the slaves. That could have been a very strong moment in Ep2 and maybe his first defiant move against the Jedi. He done something that he thought was good... but turned out to screw a lot of things up and begin to shift people's attitudes about the Jedi.


Another thing I wanted to see in the prequels is Anakin and Obi-Wan being good friends. And I wanted him to be the best star pilot in the galaxy. We see some of that in Ep1, but we never see the real potential in the films. Not even in Ep3! He's just a clumsy mess in that one shooting Obi-Wan's wing off.



I also wanted to see Darth Vader hunting down and killing the Jedi Knights. Not Anakin (this is pre-vader) killing younglings with a ton of clones.



My main disappointments with the prequels are things set up by the originals! And those things were all to take place in ep2 and ep3. So not only are Ep2 and Ep3 bad films but they also don't deliver the story I wanted to see most.

Hence... Ep1 becomes my easy favorite of the prequels because it also has the best fight choreography and best leads in Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. I also like Sio Bibble's dialogue in this film.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I also like Sio Bibble's dialogue in this film.

Communications disruption can mean only one thing: invasion.

No, it could mean a downed power coupling. Or a solar flare. Or perhaps...


Oh alright, stop it.

 

[galactiboy]

I always took "bringing balance to the force" it to mean that both the light and dark side of the force are out of whack... the Sith of course are a mess and totally douchey. But the Jedi have become complacent and too wrapped up in "knowing the force" that they have lost themselvse. The idea that they are unable to marry or have relationships kind of goes against what one would consider to be healthy and "balanced". its like of like the Jedi are priests and Sith are John Belushi on a bender... both are too extreme to work very well.

Even the way the Jedi conceptualized the meaning of bringing balance was to destroy the dark side; sounds pretty imbalanced to me

I figure that Anakin (for good or bad) destroyed the Jedi and fathered Luke in order for Luke to then create a more "human" order of Jedi that would in themselves embody a better balance of the light and dark side of the force.

In that way (a very roundabout one) he does eventually bring balance to the force in Luke.

 

[Avenger]

The 2 Minute Menace.

I don't even know if it would take that long, lets see:

Arrive Tatooine
Ignite Lightsaber
Cut Wato in 2
Steal
Take Shmi and Brat
Leave Tatooine

Fin

But we never would have gotten the good movies.

 

[Gruson]

He cheated enough as it was, might as well, right? Never seen a Jedi wave his hand as much as Qui-Gon.

Yeah, he's great and really carries the movie IMO.

 

[Khev]

I always took "bringing balance to the force" it to mean that both the light and dark side of the force are out of whack... the Sith of course are a mess and totally douchey. But the Jedi have become complacent and too wrapped up in "knowing the force" that they have lost themselvse. The idea that they are unable to marry or have relationships kind of goes against what one would consider to be healthy and "balanced". its like of like the Jedi are priests and Sith are John Belushi on a bender... both are too extreme to work very well.

Even the way the Jedi conceptualized the meaning of bringing balance was to destroy the dark side; sounds pretty imbalanced to me

I figure that Anakin (for good or bad) destroyed the Jedi and fathered Luke in order for Luke to then create a more "human" order of Jedi that would in themselves embody a better balance of the light and dark side of the force.

In that way (a very roundabout one) he does eventually bring balance to the force in Luke.

Don't you love how all of us have our own interpretations and assumptions as to what the deal is with the whole "balance" thing? I mean given the importance in the saga it really should have been a more black and white thing.

Imagine if in the Lord of the Rings Elrond announced that Frodo was the "Chosen Ring Bearer" who was supposed to destroy Sauron but then never brought to light the fact that Sauron's power was in the Ring or even how to destroy it.

 

[The Mike]

I figure that Anakin (for good or bad) destroyed the Jedi and fathered Luke in order for Luke to then create a more "human" order of Jedi that would in themselves embody a better balance of the light and dark side of the force.

In that way (a very roundabout one) he does eventually bring balance to the force in Luke.

Except for the fact that traditionally Luke was to never exist if Anakin were trained officially. That the prophecy which is never really foretold would have in theory been based on the Jedi stance at the time meaning no relationship or connections. If the prophecy said an "outsider" learning of the Force would balance it due to their offspring the Jedi would have started allowing relationships...

I'm not sure I followed all that but I narrowed my understanding of that question to its seed idea: Palpatine is the unbalanced aspect and it is ironically Anakin, who really tilts the force out of balance for awhile as Vader, who ultimately is the "one" who will rid the force of this anomoly.

Under this though then the prophecy would have been fairly new, no older than Palpatine whereas they refer to it as if it were ancient. So if something went out of tilt 40 years before TPM you'd think that'd be their focus instead of sitting around and musing about this and that.

Yeah, he's great and really carries the movie IMO.

Qui-Gon embodies what Lucas used to say the Jedi were like. He referenced them a lot in comparison to Ronin, with the thought they were "warrior munks" serving or servicing no one except the Force but still helping people. They way Obi-Wan spoke in EIV is similar to what I would have expected out of Qui-Gon if he were allowed to age. Radical, reckless, looking to restore balance to life at all costs whether the council approved or didn't. He didn't follow the council for the most part (playing on the no Master idea) and yet was still highly respected. Ewan was great but never played off of that idea or even to me connects to Guinness in the OT, for what it's worth Qui-Gon dying kind of symbolizes the dying of what we thought Jedi were based on Lucas interviews throughout the 80s and bringing in more of his newer interpretations of what he wanted them to be with the could Jedi Forces.

Imagine if in the Lord of the Rings Elrond announced that Frodo was the "Chosen Ring Bearer" who was supposed to destroy Sauron but then never brought to light the fact that Sauron's power was in the Ring or even how to destroy it.

Or even one better that Aragorn brought Frodo to the council and they agreed he could be the "Chosen Ringbearer" but never actually had him to anything related to the ring just run around and engage in other activities only have him roundabout way take the ring for himself in ROTK and become Sauron's pupil.

 

[Khev]

Or even one better that Aragorn brought Frodo to the council and they agreed he could be the "Chosen Ringbearer" but never actually had him to anything related to the ring just run around and engage in other activities only have him roundabout way take the ring for himself in ROTK and become Sauron's pupil.

Yep that's pretty much SW in a nutshell now.

 

[jye4ever]

My head hurts, ____ the force.

 

[Khev]

Maxi-big the Force.

 

[jye4ever]

Maxi-big the Force.

 

[Khev]

I wonder if George excitedly thought that that would be the next "May the Force be with you" as he typed it into the script.

 

[bloodgear]

I'm actually now imagining lil TPM Anakin killing Darth Maul because he's the Chosen One ala Sith Killer.

Actually now I think about it he is the only one that ever kills Sith in the films. Dooku, The Emperor and himself (through overexertion) since NOW Kenobi didn't kill Maul.

It's something interesting to think about.