STAR WARS: EP. I--The Phantom Menace in 3D: 2/10/12

[nothingface35]

Yes, it's both haha. There are easy ways to see that AOTC is horrid. But if you dig deeper and you'll find even more reasons it fails on all levels.


But while I'm on it, here are things about AOTC that bother me the most on a basic "hey, what?" level.

-Jango Fett is hired by Count Dooku to assasinate Padme. But he hires Zam Wesell to do it. She fails. And then he gives her another chance. But he gives her bugs to do the job. Zam gives the bugs to a droid to do it because she's a crappy bounty hunter. Couldn't Jango have put it in a droid from the get go? ALL OF THIS to get to the Kamino dart?? Dumb.


-Obi-Wan vs Jango Fett battle shouldn't have taken place. Obi-Wan was communicating with the Jedi Council who instructed him to bring Jango in for further questioning. So Obi-Wan goes out to the platform where Jango and Boba are already trying to get away. Now, you'd think Obi-Wan would just try to reason or talk to the guy.... nope, he ignites his lightsaber immediately. Never does he attempt to calm Jango or reason with him. It was a dumb fight anyway.


-Anakin surfing on that dumb animal and other awkward moments.


-Anakin meets his stepdad who explains how Shmi has gone missing. He's hopeful that she's still alive and says he'd still be out there searching for her... but he needs to heal his MISSING LEG. Anakin says he's gonna go find her. Cliegg, after a beat says: "She's dead, son. Accept it." Uhhh WTF? Way to be a flip flopper, Cliegg.


-Padme wears white to a funeral and steals C-3PO. So they're having a little funeral for Shmi. R2-D2 rolls up and Natalie Portman over-acts in this scene saying "What the F are you doing here, R2, this is a human funeral." They go into the ship and plan to rescue Obi-Wan. They don't say good bye to the good people that have given them shelter and food the past few days... and they steal their protocol droid. Poor Owen has to buy him back decades later.



There's a whole lot more but I don't think I need to.



and WHAT?? the Star Trek reboot is a good movie. I don't care about Tim Burton's Batman movies though. They were fun at the time but really aren't good.

All great points but I guarantee that we can make a a list triple this length for TPM. I never said AOTC was a good movie, I just think it's better than TPM.

I loved the Jango/Obi-Wan space chase. I loved Anakin's Tusken Raider slaughter and actually thought that was the only time I believed that he could become Vader. I loved everything about Dooku and thought that Christopher Lee finally brought that classical feeling back to this series that had been missing since Alec Guinness. The Jedi battle, while having some faults, was everything that I hoped we'd finally see.

I think these few points elevate it above TPM because I can only come up with two good points from that movie. The introduction of Maul and the opening sequence with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. But, at the end of the day, neither you or I will change the other's mind and that's what makes opinions great.

 

[Coheteboy]

All great points but I guarantee that we can make a a list triple this length for TPM. I never said AOTC was a good movie, I just think it's better than TPM.

I loved the Jango/Obi-Wan space chase. I loved Anakin's Tusken Raider slaughter and actually thought that was the only time I believed that he could become Vader. I loved everything about Dooku and thought that Christopher Lee finally brought that classical feeling back to this series that had been missing since Alec Guinness. The Jedi battle, while having some faults, was everything that I hoped we'd finally see.

I think these few points elevate it above TPM because I can only come up with two good points from that movie. The introduction of Maul and the opening sequence with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. But, at the end of the day, neither you or I will change the other's mind and that's what makes opinions great.

Christopher Lee was great casting, but that saber battle wasn't better than Darth Maul duel. Either it was the choreography or the way it was edited... it just wasn't as good as it should have been. Yoda fight did bring a smile to my face.

But in the end... Christopher Lee was the only great addition to the saga and he doesn't appear until the last act of the film.


So, in my eyes, there is no elevating anything above TPM. Everything else is just that bad to me. From the Droid Factory to the Arena Battle and the awful Jedi extras who swing at NOTHING, to the poorly recycled/edited music from TPM dropped into AOTC. It's a complete mess.

No amount of Chistopher Lee is good enough to salvage it. And speaking of Count Dooku, as powerful as he is, wouldn't he have sensed Obi-Wan snooping around Geonosis?

And the Shmi's death scene was poorly handled in my eyes too. It was just awkward again the way she just "blaaah" dead.



In TPM, the really annoying things are Jar Jar and the Neimodians and Jake Lloyd. Jake is in only half the movie and can probably be redubbed or edited down. Jar Jar should have been edited a great deal and after watching it a number of times, there's a lot of places to make an easy transition. Neimodians could be redubbed when speaking to themselves, should be in their alien dialect. All of this... could be done in post production.

To fix AOTC would require a complete restructuring and refilming and recasting.



AOTC's almost creepiest moment is in Dex's diner.

Dex: That all depends on how good your manners are and how big your....

Obi-Wan: uhh... weener?

Dex: ... POCKETBOOK is. hehehehehehehehehe

Obi-Wan: Oh, haha, whew.

 

[Agent0028]

The thing about Dex's diner is that while it seems dumb (and in many ways it is) I can see what they were going for. We had a rough and tumble cantina that fit right in on Tattooine. What would be the big city equivalent? A diner.

My whole thing with Star Wars is that there are alot of things in both trilogies that make little to no sense. Granted its worse in the PT, but I still have fun watching those movies and that's why I'm a fan.

 

[galactiboy]

Dex's Diner is hands down one of the worst scenes of all Star Wars. I'm willing to accept a fair amount of dumb ____, but a 50's style boxcar diner is just too much.

Not to mention the Dex character being just awful. Why couldn't it have just been a classic "back alley" kind of meeting

 

[Khev]

Its definitely a chore to watch AOTC beginning to end but I do like the visuals of the arena and clone battle, and the Jango stuff is pretty cool.

 

[Khev]

Obi-Wan vs Jango Fett battle shouldn't have taken place. Obi-Wan was communicating with the Jedi Council who instructed him to bring Jango in for further questioning. So Obi-Wan goes out to the platform where Jango and Boba are already trying to get away. Now, you'd think Obi-Wan would just try to reason or talk to the guy.... nope, he ignites his lightsaber immediately. Never does he attempt to calm Jango or reason with him. It was a dumb fight anyway.

Still technically no less silly than the Maul fight if you think about it. Why didn't the Naboo guard execute him "firing squad" style when the hangar doors opened and he was staring at the floor? A quick "KILL HIM!" from the Queen would have ended the fight before it began, and probably saved the Republic (since Obi-Wan wouldn't need to train Anakin and so on.)

Even without that how hard would it be for one Jedi to draw his block in such a way to leave him exposed for the second to quickly cut him down? If you watch the fight there's lots of ignored openings for an attack. But eh, its SW and looks cool and JW's score rocks so who cares.

 

[Coheteboy]

Still technically no less silly than the Maul fight if you think about it. Why didn't the Naboo guard execute him "firing squad" style when the hangar doors opened and he was staring at the floor? A quick "KILL HIM!" from the Queen would have ended the fight before it began, and probably saved the Republic (since Obi-Wan wouldn't need to train Anakin and so on.)

Even without that how hard would it be for one Jedi to draw his block in such a way to leave him exposed for the second to quickly cut him down? If you watch the fight there's lots of ignored openings for an attack. But eh, its SW and looks cool and JW's score rocks so who cares.

Oh I don't disagree with that. But at that point in Star Wars history, nobody in the Queen's guards new who that guy was. He's a cloaked warrior and had no weapons, wasn't a battle droid nor was he Neimodian. Did the queen know or even see the Tatooine confrontation? Hard to say.

But Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan did see the battle so they were down to do it in a dignified Jedi way.

And yah, I totally see that Obi-Wan jumping over Maul and slicing him in half is a stretch but I allow cinematic license if it's done well. There was real anticipation in that whole scene... you cared about Qui-Gon... it's the ONLY fight in all of the prequels I actually cared about when I think about it.



But playing devil's advocate, let's say the guards did start firing on Maul earlier in the scene. Maybe he would have deflected all those blasts with his saber? Hehe we won't ever know. But no matter what actions they took, Darth Maul was gonna do some killin'. In ep2 and ep3, it felt as if many of the battles were created just to service an expectation that X many battles have to be in the film but not enough of them meant anything.

 

[Darth Waller]

All this talk of TPM and AOTC makes me want to watch The Phantom Edit and Attack of the Phantom, but I have to wait until my October/horror movies are done.

 

[thenammagazine]

Still technically no less silly than the Maul fight if you think about it. Why didn't the Naboo guard execute him "firing squad" style when the hangar doors opened and he was staring at the floor? A quick "KILL HIM!" from the Queen would have ended the fight before it began, and probably saved the Republic (since Obi-Wan wouldn't need to train Anakin and so on.)

Even without that how hard would it be for one Jedi to draw his block in such a way to leave him exposed for the second to quickly cut him down? If you watch the fight there's lots of ignored openings for an attack. But eh, its SW and looks cool and JW's score rocks so who cares.

Because there aren't any open spots during the duels in the OT? Classic fencing was cool in the 70's and 80's, but now, especially compared to the duels in the PT, it looks like two old people fighting with canes.

 

[DiFabio]

Me preferring AOTC to "better" movies is no different than all the 1989 Batman fans clamoring day in day out over that very mediocre movie.

What the ____?


I can see comparing and contrasting Star Wars with the Star Trek reboot, makes sense, but ____ing Batman? What would even make you think of that for this particular thread?

 

[Coheteboy]

Because there aren't any open spots during the duels in the OT? Classic fencing was cool in the 70's and 80's, but now, especially compared to the duels in the PT, it looks like two old people fighting with canes.

Very reflective canes.

 

[Khev]

Because there aren't any open spots during the duels in the OT?

You might want to go back and read which two movies we were comparing.

Hint:

Spoiler

Neither were in the OT.

 

[Khev]

I can see comparing and contrasting Star Wars with the Star Trek reboot, makes sense, but ____ing Batman? What would even make you think of that for this particular thread?

1989 Batman is another good example of the designs, music, and "phenomenon" of a movie prompting people to become avid collectors despite less than spectacular filmmaking quality.

I like Batman and it has a nostalgic soft spot in my heart but I remember sitting in the theater as a 15 year old with my Nicholson Joker shirt on on opening night and being totally jarred by all the silliness and Prince songs, etc.

 

[thenammagazine]

You might want to go back and read which two movies we were comparing.

Hint:

Spoiler

Neither were in the OT.

Doesn't matter. My point still stands.

 

[Khev]

Your point stands that you wanted to throw an unrelated comparison into the discussion? All right, whatever floats your boat.

 

[CelticPredator]

Well, the saber fights were about more then just action. There was some stuff actually going on in them. Which gave the scenes more depth.

Just be sayin.

 

[Coheteboy]

Well, the saber fights were about more then just action. There was some stuff actually going on in them. Which gave the scenes more depth.

Just be sayin.

I agree for the most part. Though the Count Dooku duels had a bit more talking but still lacked depth.


The fight that should have had the most depth didn't have any... in Ep3. They said absolutely nothing until the end of it. That was a really boring duel too.

 

[thenammagazine]

I agree for the most part. Though the Count Dooku duels had a bit more talking but still lacked depth.


The fight that should have had the most depth didn't have any... in Ep3. They said absolutely nothing until the end of it. That was a really boring duel too.

Would you have preferred they ____ talk each other like the lame Dooku fights? TPM, AOTC, and the entire preceding part of ROTS pretty much said everything that needed to be said for that duel.

 

[SixthScaleEdward]

The fight that should have had the most depth didn't have any... in Ep3. They said absolutely nothing until the end of it. That was a really boring duel too.

I just dont get you

That fight was very meaningful, didnt you like how ani's saber slowly turned red....oh wait, that was a fan-made clip i saw in youtube

 

[Coheteboy]

Would you have preferred they ____ talk each other like the lame Dooku fights? TPM, AOTC, and the entire preceding part of ROTS pretty much said everything that needed to be said for that duel.

I'd prefer it didn't drone on for what felt like forever. The match was too even. I think a great dynamic would have been that Obi-Wan really was still the master and Anakin only thought he was better than him.

There was a line in Ep6 that vader says to Luke: "Obi-Wan once thought as you do." which implies that Obi-Wan tried to convince Anakin out of the funk he was in. I don't see anything in Ep3 that suggests that. He lectures him and then draws his lightsaber.

It was wasted potential.