Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[ajp4mgs]

Victory for what? I?ve asked the unanswerable questions! If you can?t answer them, the movie is completely illogical. I can?t find a work around, so I went to you guys, the ST lovers who I assumed would shed some light and make me think differently about the movie, but yet, all I get is non-responses and accused of trolling...

Hey Ducky, I'm not a fan of TROS so with a couple of your questions the best I can do is share a laugh with you. I know that's not what you're looking for, but if you're serious about wanting someone's point of view in defending the other stuff about the ST, I'm more than willing to give you my take.

- Explain why Anakin's lightsaber calls to a Sith Lord's granddaughter.

Luke was a Sith Lord's son. If some other Jedi's lightsaber called to him in the OT, I don't think either one of us would have a problem with it. If Rey's inclination is to be good, the Force would call out to her no matter what her lineage is. The lightsaber itself has a strong connection to Anakin, Kenobi, and Luke. It's just tied to the Force in a strong way. BTW, that same lightsaber also killed Jedi younglings and murdered others in cold blood, so it's not like it's an instrument of purity anyway.

- Why does Palpatine broacast his return BEFORE his ships are ready to launch? He isn't stupid, but the ST sure is.

Yep, that was dumb. Palpatine's clone clearly doesn't have the same cerebral capacity as his original body.

- Reminder that the entire battle of Exegol revolves around the fact that the Death Star Destroyers need to leave Exegol in order to activate their shields, but they can't leave Exegol, because the Final Order don't know how to fly a ship upwards!

And don't forget that those ships would eventually need to break through the ground without the protection of shields. I don't care how sturdy Imperial metal and glass are, that's just straight-up stupid.

Another thing about that sequence is that Palpatine seems to use the Force to lift those ships out of the ground all at once. I think the official number from LFL is that there were 10,000 death star destroyers there. So, my question is why did Palps need a Dyad? Lifting 10K star destroyers makes Yoda lifting an X-Wing seem like a party trick that a birthday clown would do.

- Explain why Rey had to be superior to Luke in every way, as a person and as a Jedi. Why she believes Kylo can be redeemed when Luke does not, even though he knows and experienced this situation before in the OT. They turned him into the old ways of the Jedi when he was supposed to be the new.

Assuming that Luke knows exactly what went down with PT Anakin, he knows what happens in the mind of someone like Ben/Kylo regarding how they turn on their Jedi master. The same way that Obi-Wan stood absolutely no chance of turning Anakin back to the light, Luke stood no chance with Kylo.

Luke helped redeem Vader because Vader never blamed his son for anything that happened to him. Vader blamed Obi-Wan, and Kylo blamed Luke. It has nothing to do with old ways vs. new ways. Kylo killed his own father who was trying to bring him home. Kylo wanted Luke dead too, in the same way Vader wanted Kenobi dead. Rey believed that her bond with Kylo showed her that Ben Solo could still be turned back.

- Kylo turns back to the light for the dumbest reason imaginable, either from his mom mind raping him or a figment of his imagination. Look up Jacen Solo for how somebody really turns.

After a third viewing, I say now more convinced than ever that Leia did nothing more than get her son's attention at a critical moment. From there, he was dealt a fatal injury that was healed by his enemy. He was stranded on that wreckage as he recovered and had time to reflect. He wasn't redeemed at that point because the first thing he said to Han was that "your son is dead." He was still rejecting the light.

Maybe if you look at it with a "life-flashed-before-my-eyes" outlook, Kylo/Ben having a conversation with his father would make more sense to you. A movie has to present introspection in a more dramatic way than just a dude standing out there thinking. You don't need to take the vision literally if you don't want to. The symbolism is what's important.

- Rey's "romance." Explain it.

Not a romance. She rejected Kylo in all three movies. The person she felt a bond with was Ben Solo, not Kylo Ren. But still not romantic; the kiss was ****ing ridiculous.

- Reminder that the guy that Rey sold her scraps to, Unkar Plutt was holding young Rey?s arm in the flashback implying he is the one that raised her yet there doesn?t seem to be any sort of relationship between them in The Force Awakens, be it a good one or a bad one.

Oh it was a bad one. That was clear enough by how he cheated her on food portions, but if you want to see just how bad watch the TFA deleted scenes with Unkar Plutt tracking Rey across the galaxy and threatening to kill her.

- Why do they try to desecrate Luke so much in everything?

That's just some lame author/writer with a poor take.

 

[a-dev]

For the ST hater ajp has become a powerful ally...yes..a great...asset.

But also an objective one - some legitimate and fair defenses of certain ST elements there aswell.

 

[Khev]

Yep, that was dumb. Palpatine's clone clearly doesn't have the same cerebral capacity as his original body.

No clone Palps is the same as the original, always counting his chickens before they've hatched.

"Good...good. Your hate has made you powerful. Now fulfill your father's destiny and take your father's place at my side!"

Luke (who was all set to finish off Vader on his own before the Emperor's interruption): "Wait, what? Holy crap you're right. Never!" *tosses saber*

lol

 

[Khev]

Another thing about that sequence is that Palpatine seems to use the Force to lift those ships out of the ground all at once. I think the official number from LFL is that there were 10,000 death star destroyers there. So, my question is why did Palps need a Dyad? Lifting 10K star destroyers makes Yoda lifting an X-Wing seem like a party trick that a birthday clown would do.

Interesting take. I took Palpatine raising his hands as merely a symbolic gesture to coincide with the launching of the Star Destroyers. Fascinating to imagine him lifting them himself though. Then that would suggest that the power of the Dyad merely restored his body and that he was fully prepared to nuke the fleet with his lightning even as a zombie puppet which actually then DOESN'T make his initial broadcast to the galaxy premature after all.

 

[ajp4mgs]

For the ST hater ajp has become a powerful ally...yes..a great...asset.

But also an objective one - some legitimate and fair defenses of certain ST elements there aswell.

No clone Palps is the same as the original, always counting his chickens before they've hatched.

"Good...good. Your hate has made you powerful. Now fulfill your father's destiny and take your father's place at my side!"

Luke (who was all set to finish off Vader on his own before the Emperor's interruption): "Wait, what? Holy crap you're right. Never!" *tosses saber*

lol

I just don't see that as an equitable comparison. There's a big difference between spiking the ball at the one yard line (ROTJ), and needlessly giving everyone a 16-hour notice (longer, actually) that you're gonna deploy your planet-killing fleet (TROS).

It's more than just simple arrogance and reaction to something going according to plan in TROS; it's actually inexcusably stupid for someone who is supposed to be great at planning and foresight. Instead of spiking the ball at the one yard line, he was celebrating before the ball was even snapped.

 

[JAWS]

Victory for what? I?ve asked the unanswerable questions! If you can?t answer them, the movie is completely illogical. I can?t find a work around, so I went to you guys, the ST lovers who I assumed would shed some light and make me think differently about the movie, but yet, all I get is non-responses and accused of trolling... when I know you guys have been trying to get rises out of me for months

I wouldn?t know you agree with me on anything with TROS. Or Khev. Or JYE.

What changed with the discussion all of a sudden? It?s pretty funny when I?ve sat down in full to watch it and bring some hard hitting questions that?s the moment, after 3 months, you guys stop talking

I?ve been saying the Leia mind rape thing since March and you?ve never had a problem with it, what changed? I?ve explained it in far greater detail before... you or Khev or JYE, one of you, didn?t even realize that in that scene until I mentioned it

All these facts just lead me to believe that I?ve asked questions that are unanswerable and I?ve bursted the TROS bubble. I?ve never seen some of these questions discussed before at all.

Ah well, I?ll let you guys get back to the repetitive PT bashing, surely that hasn?t been discussed before, and comparing Kylo Ren?s helmet cracks to Rey?s buttcrack and how it has some deep meaning for their relationship.

A couple of things Ducky... You never said you just finished watching it all the way threw.. It just seemed like another Ducky rant... Are you trying to tell me that this is the first time you asked why the Emperor announced his plan??


But since you never seen in one viewing before I will try..


Edit.. I see ajp did this already so I will piggyback on his and add my own thoughts.

 

[Khev]

I just don't see that as an equitable comparison. There's a big difference between spiking the ball at the one yard line (ROTJ), and needlessly giving everyone a 16-hour notice (longer, actually) that you're gonna deploy your planet-killing fleet (TROS).

It's more than just simple arrogance and reaction to something going according to plan in TROS; it's actually inexcusably stupid for someone who is supposed to be great at planning and foresight. Instead of spiking the ball at the one yard line, he was celebrating before the ball was even snapped.

No, celebrating before the ball was even snapped would have been him sending out the broadcast to the galaxy before Nute Gunray landed his troops in TPM. If you take the context of his entire 65 year plan then getting cocky in the final few hours is still spiking the ball on the one yard line (which we know he is prone to do.) But again if he was already powerful enough to raise his own Destroyers single-handedly in addition to being capable of zapping the entire Resistance fleet then it wasn't a premature celebration at all.

 

[JAWS]

Luke was a Sith Lord's son. If some other Jedi's lightsaber called to him in the OT, I don't think either one of us would have a problem with it. If Rey's inclination is to be good, the Force would call out to her no matter what her lineage is. The lightsaber itself has a strong connection to Anakin, Kenobi, and Luke. It's just tied to the Force in a strong way. BTW, that same lightsaber also killed Jedi younglings and murdered others in cold blood, so it's not like it's an instrument of purity anyway.

I was just going to say.. "Why not" Obviously the Force reached out to her and saw her as the one who could help turn Kylo back and with him defeat the Emperor.

Plus she was the chosen one

Yep, that was dumb. Palpatine's clone clearly doesn't have the same cerebral capacity as his original body.

I don't have an real issue with this.. I wish it was shown on screen instead of an opening crawl.

Luke Skywalker was dead. The Resistance was all but destroyed. Why not try and scare the Galaxy into line? Palps is overconfident and egotistical... I think had it just been shown on screen and also given a bit more time to the what and how he came back I don't think people would have a problem with his announcing his return.

It turns out he needed to announce it anyway to get Kylo and Ultimately Rey there.

Its a convoluted plan but its not the first time he has done that.

And don't forget that those ships would eventually need to break through the ground without the protection of shields. I don't care how sturdy Imperial metal and glass are, that's just straight-up stupid.

I always thought it was ice...

Another thing about that sequence is that Palpatine seems to use the Force to lift those ships out of the ground all at once. I think the official number from LFL is that there were 10,000 death star destroyers there. So, my question is why did Palps need a Dyad? Lifting 10K star destroyers makes Yoda lifting an X-Wing seem like a party trick that a birthday clown would do.

I'm with Khev. I never viewed it as him lifting the entire fleet. Just a symbolic gesture.

Assuming that Luke knows exactly what went down with PT Anakin, he knows what happens in the mind of someone like Ben/Kylo regarding how they turn on their Jedi master. The same way that Obi-Wan stood absolutely no chance of turning Anakin back to the light, Luke stood no chance with Kylo.

Luke helped redeem Vader because Vader never blamed his son for anything that happened to him. Vader blamed Obi-Wan, and Kylo blamed Luke. It has nothing to do with old ways vs. new ways. Kylo killed his own father who was trying to bring him home. Kylo wanted Luke dead too, in the same way Vader wanted Kenobi dead. Rey believed that her bond with Kylo showed her that Ben Solo could still be turned back.

Rey also had a connection with Kylo. There was the Dyad..

But Hell I love AJP's explanation.. I am going with that..

After a third viewing, I say now more convinced than ever that Leia did nothing more than get her son's attention at a critical moment. From there, he was dealt a fatal injury that was healed by his enemy. He was stranded on that wreckage as he recovered and had time to reflect. He wasn't redeemed at that point because the first thing he said to Han was that "your son is dead." He was still rejecting the light.

​

That is how I always took it.. I never saw it more then that.. Leia had been proven to be a "weakness" for him. Also he was filled with the torment of killing his father.. He was a much more raw and emotional state then ever before. So the love of his mother was more important then ever. Reaching out like that was apparently something that could kill Leia so she had to do it as a last chance effort. ​

Maybe if you look at it with a "life-flashed-before-my-eyes" outlook, Kylo/Ben having a conversation with his father would make more sense to you. A movie has to present introspection in a more dramatic way than just a dude standing out there thinking. You don't need to take the vision literally if you don't want to. The symbolism is what's important.

I think that is a good way to look at it.

Personally I find it as a man who has come to a crossroads and he reaches to his memory to the one thing that impacted his life the most and filled him with regret. I find this scene to be the most beautiful part of the entire trilogy. The guilt and suffering is all there on Kylo's face and words. His desire to come back to the good side is all there. His love for his father is all there. This scene probably the best preperformance in the entire saga also. So much is there and it works. It plays out much like his last memory of his father back when he made the choice to kill him.. A choice that had torn him in two. The choice that was the beginning of the end for Kylo Ren and the ultimate return of Ben Solo.

Not a romance. She rejected Kylo in all three movies. The person she felt a bond with was Ben Solo, not Kylo Ren. But still not romantic; the kiss was ****ing ridiculous.

Yes and Yes.

Man why did they do the Kiss.. Maybe it was a kiss or gratitude for saving her life.

I would kiss Ben Solo if he saved my life

Oh it was a bad one. That was clear enough by how he cheated her on food portions, but if you want to see just how bad watch the TFA deleted scenes with Unkar Plutt tracking Rey across the galaxy and threatening to kill her.

Yeah that's how I see it. I think its pretty obvious. The only way to survive is to due his bidding and get him his scraps.

 

[Khev]

When Ben tells Han "your son is dead" in TROS I don't think he was rejecting the light at all. To me Driver's performance clearly showed that he didn't want to believe what he was stating (he sounds completely different than when he originally made that statement in TFA) but was so consumed with guilt and remorse that he couldn't bring himself to say anything else. The best he could do in his mind was to acknowledge his own "death" as a sort of confession that his father would hopefully forgive. Which of course he did.

So poignant and perfectly executed, absolutely one of the best moments of the Saga IMO.

 

[jye4ever]

No, celebrating before the ball was even snapped would have been him sending out the broadcast to the galaxy before Nute Gunray landed his troops in TPM. If you take the context of his entire 65 year plan then getting cocky in the final few hours is still spiking the ball on the one yard line (which we know he is prone to do.) But again if he was already powerful enough to raise his own Destroyers single-handedly in addition to being capable of zapping the entire Resistance fleet then it wasn't a premature celebration at all.

When Ben tells Han "your son is dead" in TROS I don't think he was rejecting the light at all. To me Driver's performance clearly showed that he didn't want to believe what he was stating (he sounds completely different than when he originally made that statement in TFA) but was so consumed with guilt and remorse that he couldn't bring himself to say anything else. The best he could do in his mind was to acknowledge his own "death" as a sort of confession that his father would hopefully forgive. Which of course he did.

So poignant and perfectly executed, absolutely one of the best moments of the Saga IMO.

I will give ajp this, who I absolutely have nothing but respect for mind you, but when he fails he does it in the most eloquent manner possible lol


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[ajp4mgs]

No, celebrating before the ball was even snapped would have been him sending out the broadcast to the galaxy before Nute Gunray landed his troops in TPM. If you take the context of his entire 65 year plan then getting cocky in the final few hours is still spiking the ball on the one yard line (which we know he is prone to do.) But again if he was already powerful enough to raise his own Destroyers single-handedly in addition to being capable of zapping the entire Resistance fleet then it wasn't a premature celebration at all.

Either way you frame it, giving people around the galaxy a timeframe was a tactical mistake beyond anything he'd ever been shown capable of, and not the same as his throne room behavior in ROTJ. When he encouraged Luke, it was no different than how he baited Anakin to embrace his anger in their earlier ROTS encounter. The whole "let your hate flow" sales pitch and guidance is still the same thing. The difference was that Luke ultimately chose differently. Luke was just standing there with Vader prone and vulnerable and not bringing himself to end it, but you make it seem like it was all Palpatine's laugh that stopped Luke in mid kill swing.

TROS Palpatine had no motive, incentive, or purpose to warning the galaxy in advance. He didn't need to scare them into submission; that's what the death star destroyers were for. He already had 10K crews following his order, so he just needed to launch his fleet unbeknownst to anyone. No matter how you slice it, announcing the plan was pointless and not fitting for a master strategist.

And please note: I'm not saying it means you have to denounce the whole movie! But you also don't need to pretend that it was perfectly legit plot writing. It was a poorly-thought-out element for not being faithful to essential characterization (foresight and strategy) from my POV.

When Ben tells Han "your son is dead" in TROS I don't think he was rejecting the light at all. To me Driver's performance clearly showed that he didn't want to believe what he was stating (he sounds completely different than when he originally made that statement in TFA) but was so consumed with guilt and remorse that he couldn't bring himself to say anything else. The best he could do in his mind was to acknowledge his own "death" as a sort of confession that his father would hopefully forgive. Which of course he did.

So poignant and perfectly executed, absolutely one of the best moments of the Saga IMO.

No matter how you interpret his delivery of the line, he still said it. That means there was still some conflict there. That's what I'm saying. He's still not redeemed at that point. And I actually think that makes the scene better. Hear me out on this:

I don't know if Kylo had been keeping a Force connection with his mom. I would think he'd want to cut that sort of thing off in order to stay firmly on the dark side as Supreme Leader. For all I know, he wasn't even aware that she survived the bridge attack on the Raddus.

So, Leia sent her presence to her son because she sensed that Rey was in serious trouble (and all would be lost if she was killed). That last-ditch effort blows Kylo away because of the context I just laid out. Then he gets a mortal wound healed by the person he'd just been trying to kill, and also has a Force bond with.

Alone on that wreckage, those two incidents combine with his awareness that his mother died to reach out to him not to make another dark and tragic choice. His conflict has been restarted in a major way. Enter his vision encounter with Han. It starts the way it did last time (TFA), but now he resolves his inner conflict in the opposite direction.

Mother, father, and "sister" in the Force all having gradual and combined influence on making him choose differently than the same scenario in TFA. I think that's far more powerful, and fits with the dialogue better. Just my two cents.

I will give ajp this, who I absolutely have nothing but respect for mind you, but when he fails he does it in the most eloquent manner possible lol


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I hope my latest two responses failed with equal eloquence.

 

[JAWS]

When Ben tells Han "your son is dead" in TROS I don't think he was rejecting the light at all. To me Driver's performance clearly showed that he didn't want to believe what he was stating (he sounds completely different than when he originally made that statement in TFA) but was so consumed with guilt and remorse that he couldn't bring himself to say anything else. The best he could do in his mind was to acknowledge his own "death" as a sort of confession that his father would hopefully forgive. Which of course he did.

So poignant and perfectly executed, absolutely one of the best moments of the Saga IMO.

I think he was still trying to resist.. Only because he felt he was not deserving of forgiveness and thus he could not return to the light.

But the memory of his father was a memory of love and compassion.. Not of anger, not of hate, but what his father would do if he were still here. Love and forgiveness.

Mother, father, and "sister" in the Force all having gradual and combined influence on making him choose differently than the same scenario in TFA. I think that's far more powerful, and fits with the dialogue better. Just my two cents.

I am a little more with ajp here. I think Kylo was still trying to resist.. Only because he felt he was not deserving of forgiveness and thus he did not deserve to return to the light.

But the memory of his father was a memory of love and compassion.. Not of anger, not of hate, but what his father would do if he were still here. Love and forgiveness.

That on top of his mothers love and Rey's compassion... Ben Solo is Reborn.



I will repeat what I said above as it brought me to tears

I said -

Personally I find it as a man who has come to a crossroads and he reaches to his memory to the one thing that impacted his life the most and filled him with regret. I find this scene to be the most beautiful part of the entire trilogy. The guilt and suffering is all there on Kylo's face and words. His desire to come back to the good side is all there. His love for his father is all there. This scene probably the best preperformance in the entire saga also. So much is there and it works. It plays out much like his last memory of his father back when he made the choice to kill him.. A choice that had torn him in two. The choice that was the beginning of the end for Kylo Ren and the ultimate return of Ben Solo.​

It's a perfect scene IMO.​

 

[ajp4mgs]

I think he was still trying to resist.. Only because he felt he was not deserving of forgiveness and thus he could not return to the light.

But the memory of his father was a memory of love and compassion.. Not of anger, not of hate, but what his father would do if he were still here. Love and forgiveness.

I am a little more with ajp here. I think Kylo was still trying to resist.. Only because he felt he was not deserving of forgiveness and thus he did not deserve to return to the light.

But the memory of his father was a memory of love and compassion.. Not of anger, not of hate, but what his father would do if he were still here. Love and forgiveness.

That on top of his mothers love and Rey's compassion... Ben Solo is Reborn.



I will repeat what I said above as it brought me to tears

I said -





It's a perfect scene IMO.​

Yeah, I don't care for the movie, but the Han scene was total perfection IMO. It's what the Lucas SW was essentially all about: fathers saving sons, and sons saving fathers. Family in general, actually. Preserving the physical person; preserving the spiritual goodness; and preserving the person's legacy. Those are takeaways I think George was going for with his films, and that TROS scene with Leia, Han, and Rey hit all those notes.

 

[jye4ever]

Either way you frame it, giving people around the galaxy a timeframe was a tactical mistake beyond anything he'd ever been shown capable of, and not the same as his throne room behavior in ROTJ. When he encouraged Luke, it was no different than how he baited Anakin to embrace his anger in their earlier ROTS encounter. The whole "let your hate flow" sales pitch and guidance is still the same thing. The difference was that Luke ultimately chose differently. Luke was just standing there with Vader prone and vulnerable and not bringing himself to end it, but you make it seem like it was all Palpatine's laugh that stopped Luke in mid kill swing.

TROS Palpatine had no motive, incentive, or purpose to warning the galaxy in advance. He didn't need to scare them into submission; that's what the death star destroyers were for. He already had 10K crews following his order, so he just needed to launch his fleet unbeknownst to anyone. No matter how you slice it, announcing the plan was pointless and not fitting for a master strategist.

And please note: I'm not saying it means you have to denounce the whole movie! But you also don't need to pretend that it was perfectly legit plot writing. It was a poorly-thought-out element for not being faithful to essential characterization (foresight and strategy) from my POV.



No matter how you interpret his delivery of the line, he still said it. That means there was still some conflict there. That's what I'm saying. He's still not redeemed at that point. And I actually think that makes the scene better. Hear me out on this:

I don't know if Kylo had been keeping a Force connection with his mom. I would think he'd want to cut that sort of thing off in order to stay firmly on the dark side as Supreme Leader. For all I know, he wasn't even aware that she survived the bridge attack on the Raddus.

So, Leia sent her presence to her son because she sensed that Rey was in serious trouble (and all would be lost if she was killed). That last-ditch effort blows Kylo away because of the context I just laid out. Then he gets a mortal wound healed by the person he'd just been trying to kill, and also has a Force bond with.

Alone on that wreckage, those two incidents combine with his awareness that his mother died to reach out to him not to make another dark and tragic choice. His conflict has been restarted in a major way. Enter his vision encounter with Han. It starts the way it did last time (TFA), but now he resolves his inner conflict in the opposite direction.

Mother, father, and "sister" in the Force all having gradual and combined influence on making him choose differently than the same scenario in TFA. I think that's far more powerful, and fits with the dialogue better. Just my two cents.



I hope my latest two responses failed with equal eloquence.

Post ROTJ I figure that the emperor hated the light side even more by that point and he was so arrogant that he could care less about being strategic he wanted to rub the failure of the jedi in the galaxy face.

The guy commutes in a Death Star for christ sake he loved theatrics.

Yeah, I don't care for the movie, but the Han scene was total perfection IMO. It's what the Lucas SW was essentially all about: fathers saving sons, and sons saving fathers. Family in general, actually. Preserving the physical person; preserving the spiritual goodness; and preserving the person's legacy. Those are takeaways I think George was going for with his films, and that TROS scene with Leia, Han, and Rey hit all those notes.

You are like Filoni only difference is that this was actually in the movie lol


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[Prime Clone]

TROS Palpatine had no motive, incentive, or purpose to warning the galaxy in advance.

I thought it was to undermine Kylo after he unexpectedly became Supreme Leader. Palps may have planned to remain hidden until he was fully ready, but Snoke's death forced his hand - he was no longer in full control of the First Order.

Warning the galaxy not only undermined Kylo but distracted him, and set in motion Palps' plan to have Rey brought before him.

(Wait, did I just defend TROS!!??)

 

[JAWS]

I thought it was to undermine Kylo after he unexpectedly became Supreme Leader. Palps may have planned to remain hidden until he was fully ready, but Snoke's death forced his hand - he was no longer in full control of the First Order.

Warning the galaxy not only undermined Kylo but distracted him, and set in motion Palps' plan to have Rey brought before him.

(Wait, did I just defend TROS!!??)

Wow the haters of TROS understand it more then I do

 

[jye4ever]

That is a great post by Prime.

Also had it not been for the force ghosts Palpatine easily had the upper hand due to the entire galaxy armada rushing right into Exegol not even taking the time to consider it being a trap.

He didn?t even have to go out into the galaxy they all came to him lol


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[Khev]

I will repeat what I said above as it brought me to tears

I said -

Personally I find it as a man who has come to a crossroads and he reaches to his memory to the one thing that impacted his life the most and filled him with regret. I find this scene to be the most beautiful part of the entire trilogy. The guilt and suffering is all there on Kylo's face and words. His desire to come back to the good side is all there. His love for his father is all there. This scene probably the best preperformance in the entire saga also. So much is there and it works. It plays out much like his last memory of his father back when he made the choice to kill him.. A choice that had torn him in two. The choice that was the beginning of the end for Kylo Ren and the ultimate return of Ben Solo.

Yeah, I don't care for the movie, but the Han scene was total perfection IMO. It's what the Lucas SW was essentially all about: fathers saving sons, and sons saving fathers. Family in general, actually. Preserving the physical person; preserving the spiritual goodness; and preserving the person's legacy. Those are takeaways I think George was going for with his films, and that TROS scene with Leia, Han, and Rey hit all those notes.

Epic posts all around gentlemen.

Post ROTJ I figure that the emperor hated the light side even more by that point and he was so arrogant that he could care less about being strategic he wanted to rub the failure of the jedi in the galaxy face.

The guy commutes in a Death Star for christ sake he loved theatrics.

Yep, lol.

You are like Filoni only difference is that this was actually in the movie lol

So true.

 

[Khev]

Wow the haters of TROS understand it more then I do

 

[Prime Clone]

That is s great post by Prime.

Also had it not been for the force ghosts Palpatine easily had the upper hand due to the entire galaxy armada rushing right into Exegol not even taking the time to consider it being a trap.

He didn?t even have to go out into the galaxy they all came to him lol

Cheers jye


And another great point! Palps waited till Ackbar was no longer around to warn them: