Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[ironwez20]

So other than the romantic scene you saw nothing romantic in the film?

Kylo spent the entire final act of TLJ trying to kill his mother on Crait. Luke?s force projected intervention was a diversion to simply save Leia from being murdered by her son.

You are right, however, Leia?s force push to the light side did not translate in the film...and that is because the film is both poorly written and poorly directed.
It?s okay to like or even love it...I would never want to take that away from anyone or try to make someone feel like they are flawed in some way for enjoying it. We like what we like. I like my fair share of garbage too...but I think it?s probably fair for us all to acknowledge that it is garbage right? Garbage that some of us love...but garbage none-the-less.
I have no doubt that everyone involved in the film would agree too if pressed and freed from the threat of harming their careers.

I used to be the biggest sequel trilogy apologist but realized as the credits rolled on opening night of TROS that I had been lying to myself on every step of that 4 year journey and that the entire enterprise was just a poorly conceived and poorly executed train wreck.

There was no plan, no guiding vision...Abrams was locked in a people pleasing tail spin that creatively castrated him and Johnson, while a capable filmmaker, had a fundamental lack of understanding of Star Wars.
All of this is the recipe for failure not success which is why the ST was a total and epic failure. Sorry.

The last bit of this post is what khev says in his mind when he puts on the mask.

 

[ironwez20]

My name is...

P R E Q U E L T R I L O G Y

H A M I L T O N


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It?s ok. I know you love the PT and force yourself to like the ST cause nostalgia

 

[JAWS]

So other than the romantic scene you saw nothing romantic in the film?

Not to the "twilight" levels that you mentioned. There was a connection with Rey and Kylo but it was so minor that I was actually shocked by the kiss from out of nowhere at the end of the film.

Kylo spent the entire final act of TLJ trying to kill his mother on Crait. Luke?s force projected intervention was a diversion to simply save Leia from being murdered by her son.

Kill or capture.. We dont really know what would have happened do we.. I cant remember.. Did he say take no prisoners.. This again goes along with his struggle.. He wants to be bad.. He wants to win. When it came down to it and he had the chance to kill her himself he couldnt do it. He does seem to be fine with the fact if someone else does.. His desire was still to be the ruler of the Galaxy but he still had that inner struggle.

You are right, however, Leia?s force push to the light side did not translate in the film...and that is because the film is both poorly written and poorly directed.

Well it may have been poorly directed to get that point across or JJ did not even try.. The way it comes across on film feels perfect and natural and most say its the highlight of that movie.. Even the people who tend to dislike it.

It?s okay to like or even love it...I would never want to take that away from anyone or try to make someone feel like they are flawed in some way for enjoying it. We like what we like. I like my fair share of garbage too...but I think it?s probably fair for us all to acknowledge that it is garbage right? Garbage that some of us love...but garbage none-the-less.
I have no doubt that everyone involved in the film would agree too if pressed and freed from the threat of harming their careers.

I think you missed most of my post here. I have never ever said that these films are high art. I did not like the first two films in the ST at all... I happened to be caught off guard and fully enjoyed TROS. Which helped me to accept TFA a bit more and not really change my mind about TRS.

Kev, Jey, Buffy and myself (as well as some others) have said that other then the first two SW movies all others have had some major issues. From ROTJ to TROS.

There are only two I would call garbage.. AOTC and TLJ.. Because they are SW they are watchable garbage. All the others have their highs and lows.

I used to be the biggest sequel trilogy apologist but realized as the credits rolled on opening night of TROS that I had been lying to myself on every step of that 4 year journey and that the entire enterprise was just a poorly conceived and poorly executed train wreck.

And that is where we are a different. With the exception of Kylo Ren and a moment here and there I thought the first two were trash and happened to like the direction TROS went. I dont know what to say but I enjoyed it. Its no ANH or ESB but I liked it better the all the PT and the other two ST films. yeah there was no direction for the ST from film to film.. In all honesty I am kind of happy about that because I liked the last one. Maybe if it tried to follow the path set by TLJ I would of hated it.

There was no plan, no guiding vision...Abrams was locked in a people pleasing tail spin that creatively castrated him and Johnson, while a capable filmmaker, had a fundamental lack of understanding of Star Wars.
All of this is the recipe for failure not success which is why the ST was a total and epic failure. Sorry.

Well for you it was and thats OK.. I would agree if i didnt like TROS. But i did and that films fixed some of the major issues I had with the first film. It really did nothing to help me enjoy the 2nd. I like what I like about that one but i still hate what i always hated and that was most of the film.

It is what it is. Even if TROS was crap to me I would probably just watch it like I use to do with the PT. As just a series of films that have cool Star Wars related ideas but keep them far away from the OT.

Thats the funny thing about TROS.. It even helped me accept the PT.

 

[JAWS]

See why you gotta always bring out the PT. This is why I always get on y?all. Lol.

Speaking for myself.


I think its hard not to when you have some on here that criticize the ST (or for me TROS) like they are the worst things ever imagined all the while pretending that the PT is some sort of high art. That often the complaints leveled at the ST could be said about the PT.

I like moment of each trilogy and each trilogy has one film I really like, one film I really dislike and one film I am middle of the road on.

While the PT may have the more well thought out and complete story it has some of the cheesiest acting moments, some of the worst dialogue, some of the goofiest characters, some awful FX moments, some really bad directing, and some very clunky story telling moments. It took one of the all time great villains of the OT and made some fans very unhappy.

However in its defense it has a few great action scenes and some wonderful imaginative world building.

The ST has the issue of not having a complete vision and takes some huge leaps that as a fan you have to accept or wind up unhappy (emperor). The 2nd film had a major agenda and is overall crap that really derailed everything. The third film tried to course correct frustrating fans even more and the ST took chances with the OT cast that made many a fan unhappy.

In its defense it had some good action moments, some very good acting, a good storyline with Kylo and they all looked good visually especially the last two (not so much the first one)


So where I see strengths in the ST I see weaknesses in the PT and visa versa.


I think many of us that find enjoyment out of the PT have learned to ignore so much of what is bad because we have gotten use to it. The acting and script that use to curl my nails is easy to ignore... I mean the Sand speech does not even phase me anymore. Its just there.


What's funny Ironwez is you and I are very much the same with these how we like and dislike each trilogy.

You did not like the first two films in the PT yet the last film stuck the landing for you and thus probably allows you to accept the PT as a whole a bit better.

It did not for me and the PT is what it is.

I did not like the first two films in the ST but the last film stuck the landing for me and allows me to accept the ST as a whole a bit better.

It did not for you and the ST is what it is.


But yeah.. Its hard to listen to PT fans dump on the ST.. Clean out your own back yard after your throw the black kettle through the glass house you live in

 

[jye4ever]

Speaking for myself.


I think its hard not to when you have some on here that criticize the ST (or for me TROS) like they are the worst things ever imagined all the while pretending that the PT is some sort of high art. That often the complaints leveled at the ST could be said about the PT.

I like moment of each trilogy and each trilogy has one film I really like, one film I really dislike and one film I am middle of the road on.

While the PT may have the more well thought out and complete story it has some of the cheesiest acting moments, some of the worst dialogue, some of the goofiest characters, some awful FX moments, some really bad directing, and some very clunky story telling moments. It took one of the all time great villains of the OT and made some fans very unhappy.

However in its defense it has a few great action scenes and some wonderful imaginative world building.

The ST has the issue of not having a complete vision and takes some huge leaps that as a fan you have to accept or wind up unhappy (emperor). The 2nd film had a major agenda and is overall crap that really derailed everything. The third film tried to course correct frustrating fans even more and the ST took chances with the OT cast that made many a fan unhappy.

In its defense it had some good action moments, some very good acting, a good storyline with Kylo and they all looked good visually especially the last two (not so much the first one)


So where I see strengths in the ST I see weaknesses in the PT and visa versa.


I think many of us that find enjoyment out of the PT have learned to ignore so much of what is bad because we have gotten use to it. The acting and script that use to curl my nails is easy to ignore... I mean the Sand speech does not even phase me anymore. Its just there.


What's funny Ironwez is you and I are very much the same with these how we like and dislike each trilogy.

You did not like the first two films in the PT yet the last film stuck the landing for you and thus probably allows you to accept the PT as a whole a bit better.

It did not for me and the PT is what it is.

I did not like the first two films in the ST but the last film stuck the landing for me and allows me to accept the ST as a whole a bit better.

It did not for you and the ST is what it is.


But yeah.. Its hard to listen to PT fans dump on the ST.. Clean out your own back yard after your throw the black kettle through the glass house you live in

Epic post is epic.


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[jal76]

I think you missed most of my post here. I have never ever said that these films are high art. I did not like the first two films in the ST at all... I happened to be caught off guard and fully enjoyed TROS.

There are only two I would call garbage.. AOTC and TLJ.. Because they are SW they are watchable garbage. All the others have their highs and lows.

And that is where we are a different. With the exception of Kylo Ren and a moment here and there I thought the first two were trash and happened to like the direction TROS went. I dont know what to say but I enjoyed it. Its no ANH or ESB but I liked it better the all the PT and the other two ST films. yeah there was no direction for the ST from film to film.. In all honesty I am kind of happy about that because I liked the last one. Maybe if it tried to follow the path set by TLJ I would of hated it.

.[/QUOTE]

To be clear here...anyone can enjoy whatever they want, but TFA was a mediocre romp with some potential and a few well crafted scenes...TLJ was a well enough made film but was ultimately a BAD Star Wars film because it fundamentally missed the point of Star Wars...TROS was completely terrible with absolutely no redeeming qualities...it is objectively poor filmmaking. Purely on technical terms the movie is a masterclass on how not to construct a film.
Just a gaggle of bad fan service moments and pandering tied to a wholly incoherent narrative.
It does not have ?problems? it is just one big problem.
To establish where I stand the prequels are quite the mess too...they will get no defense from me...they just do not even remotely reach the level of atrocity reached by TROS.

 

[Mandible]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvtpEEEVH4A

 

[JAWS]

To be clear here...anyone can enjoy whatever they want, but TFA was a mediocre romp with some potential and a few well crafted scenes...TLJ was a well enough made film but was ultimately a BAD Star Wars film because it fundamentally missed the point of Star Wars...TROS was completely terrible with absolutely no redeeming qualities...it is objectively poor filmmaking. Purely on technical terms the movie is a masterclass on how not to construct a film.
Just a gaggle of bad fan service moments and pandering tied to a wholly incoherent narrative.
It does not have ?problems? it is just one big problem.
To establish where I stand the prequels are quite the mess too...they will get no defense from me...they just do not even remotely reach the level of atrocity reached by TROS.

Well this is a classic case agree to disagee.. You see all these major problems and I a decent SW film that unfortunately had to immediately follow one awful film and one average one before that.

I guess narratively it should have just tried to go down the path TLJ laid before it.. Whatever that was.

But it tried to bring it back to feeling like a SW film. I think structurally it just tried to do too much in too little time but felt that the film found its footing when they finally got off that dumb sand planet.

Just cant see the hate thrown at it.. Especially if you tried to be an apologist for the first two films.. I mean it was obvious there was no plan as soon as Luke threw the saber behind his back. and other then a few moments in TLJ that is the film that is objectively bad filmmaking.. Your film should have a point. Not leave you right were you started off. 2 awfully Bad subplots, stupid characters, and like you said fundamentally not understanding the type what the subject matter is you are dealing with.

After that TROS had no where to go but up


But thats cool if you hate it and this its just the worst of the SW films.. Thats fine. It was the best of the SW saga for me since the OT.. Dont know what to say.. It wasnt fan service moments for me as all my fav parts had more to do with Kylo and Rey then any of the OT characters. Except for Ben's redemption but I dont think that counts as fan service. It just felt like SW to me. All the old fart SW fan friends of mine feel basically the same way I do.. Must be something in the water.

 

[jal76]

Well this is a classic case agree to disagee.. You see all these major problems and I a decent SW film that unfortunately had to immediately follow one awful film and one average one before that.

I guess narratively it should have just tried to go down the path TLJ laid before it.. Whatever that was.

But it tried to bring it back to feeling like a SW film. I think structurally it just tried to do too much in too little time but felt that the film found its footing when they finally got off that dumb sand planet.

Just cant see the hate thrown at it.. Especially if you tried to be an apologist for the first two films.. I mean it was obvious there was no plan as soon as Luke threw the saber behind his back. and other then a few moments in TLJ that is the film that is objectively bad filmmaking.. Your film should have a point. Not leave you right were you started off. 2 awfully Bad subplots, stupid characters, and like you said fundamentally not understanding the type what the subject matter is you are dealing with.

After that TROS had no where to go but up


But thats cool if you hate it and this its just the worst of the SW films.. Thats fine. It was the best of the SW saga for me since the OT.. Dont know what to say.. It wasnt fan service moments for me as all my fav parts had more to do with Kylo and Rey then any of the OT characters. Except for Ben's redemption but I dont think that counts as fan service. It just felt like SW to me. All the old fart SW fan friends of mine feel basically the same way I do.. Must be something in the water.

Don?t get me wrong...I have yet to say that I ?hate? the movie...I actually don?t.
I did not even have a bad time when I saw it for the first time. I had a little fun watching it.
I don?t hate it and I am certainly not mad at it...
I just recognize that it is a bad movie marred by poor filmmaking and some even worse decision making.
Speaking of decision making, I can barely even blame Abrams for the bad decision making that crippled TROS...that blame should be laid squarely at the feet of Rian Johnson.
After TLJ what in the world was Abrams supposed to do?
Johnson did the cinematic equivalent of climbing a ladder to the top of a tower and then setting in on fire while everyone else was stuck at the bottom watching their only means of joining him on top of the tower burn to the ground before their eyes.
On a certain level I almost feel that Abrams should be commended for doing his best to overcome such an egregious act of sabotage.
Johnson literally painted him into a corner.
With that said, regardless of the fact that he was ultimately set up to fail by Johnson and did perhaps his best to overcome it...the fact of the matter is he still made a terrible movie.

As far as where it stands in the pantheon of the entire saga...the prequels were not good movies either but there are moments in all of them that thrill me to no end. Duel of the Fates...the Jango Fett Obi Wan fight and the Obi Wan Anakin Dooku fight...the opening of ROTS, the Obi Wan Anakin fight, the birth of Darth Vader.
For me there is not a single moment in TROS that I am left wanting to revisit. Not one.

 

[JAWS]

Don?t get me wrong...I have yet to say that I ?hate? the movie...I actually don?t.
I did not even have a bad time when I saw it for the first time. I had a little fun watching it.
I don?t hate it and I am certainly not mad at it...
I just recognize that it is a bad movie marred by poor filmmaking and some even worse decision making.
Speaking of decision making, I can barely even blame Abrams for the bad decision making that crippled TROS...that blame should be laid squarely at the feet of Rian Johnson.
After TLJ what in the world was Abrams supposed to do?
Johnson did the cinematic equivalent of climbing a ladder to the top of a tower and then setting in on fire while everyone else was stuck at the bottom watching their only means of joining him on top of the tower burn to the ground before their eyes.
On a certain level I almost feel that Abrams should be commended for doing his best to overcome such an egregious act of sabotage.
Johnson literally painted him into a corner.
With that said, regardless of the fact that he was ultimately set up to fail by Johnson and did perhaps his best to overcome it...the fact of the matter is he still made a terrible movie.

As far as where it stands in the pantheon of the entire saga...the prequels were not good movies either but there are moments in all of them that thrill me to no end. Duel of the Fates...the Jango Fett Obi Wan fight and the Obi Wan Anakin Dooku fight...the opening of ROTS, the Obi Wan Anakin fight, the birth of Darth Vader.
For me there is not a single moment in TROS that I am left wanting to revisit. Not one.

I think we agree that TROS is a very flawed film but I find an amazing about of enjoyment out of it.

Unlike you I find many moments that I love to revisit. Which is the first time I felt that way since Duel of the Fates.

We just like different things. I don't care at all for the Jango / Obi wan fight. I hate the Obi wan Dooku fight (AOTC I assume you are talking about). I have come to enjoy the opening of ROTS a little more but still find most of it full of cringe. The birth of Vader could have been great (if we are talking about the end) but then Nooooo ruined it all.. Hard to take it seriously. His turn from Anakin to Vader is clunky..

No most of my fav scenes that I revisit are the already mentioned Duel of the Fates and the not as well liked by many Pod Race..

I freaking love the pod race. The sound design in that is some of the best ever in the SW universe.

As for TROS I fully enjoy most of the action with the desert chase being my least fav. I love all the saber battles especially on the Death Star. More for how epic it looks then anything. I did not like Endgame so the On you left moment and I am all the Jedi never even came to mind until it was pointed out to me.. And I still like it better in TROS Ben's redemption of course.

Like I said we just like different things and thats cool. I see TROS as a less then perfect film but I find that to be true of all but two SW films. I have fun with it which is more then I could say with most of the PT and the first two ST films. Like I said way back.. It somehow made me feel like a kid again. It made me love Star Wars again.. It helped me accept the PT and the other two ST films. I will always be grateful.. Even if in the next few years I grow tired of it and all its issues come to drive me crazy.. I will always appreciate it for bringing me back to enjoying SW.

Anyways.. Great conversation.

 

[jal76]

I think we agree that TROS is a very flawed film but I find an amazing about of enjoyment out of it.

Unlike you I find many moments that I love to revisit. Which is the first time I felt that way since Duel of the Fates.

We just like different things. I don't care at all for the Jango / Obi wan fight. I hate the Obi wan Dooku fight (AOTC I assume you are talking about). I have come to enjoy the opening of ROTS a little more but still find most of it full of cringe. The birth of Vader could have been great (if we are talking about the end) but then Nooooo ruined it all.. Hard to take it seriously. His turn from Anakin to Vader is clunky..

No most of my fav scenes that I revisit are the already mentioned Duel of the Fates and the not as well liked by many Pod Race..

I freaking love the pod race. The sound design in that is some of the best ever in the SW universe.

As for TROS I fully enjoy most of the action with the desert chase being my least fav. I love all the saber battles especially on the Death Star. More for how epic it looks then anything. I did not like Endgame so the On you left moment and I am all the Jedi never even came to mind until it was pointed out to me.. And I still like it better in TROS Ben's redemption of course.

Like I said we just like different things and thats cool. I see TROS as a less then perfect film but I find that to be true of all but two SW films. I have fun with it which is more then I could say with most of the PT and the first two ST films. Like I said way back.. It somehow made me feel like a kid again. It made me love Star Wars again.. It helped me accept the PT and the other two ST films. I will always be grateful.. Even if in the next few years I grow tired of it and all its issues come to drive me crazy.. I will always appreciate it for bringing me back to enjoying SW.

Anyways.. Great conversation.

Indeed. I have enjoyed hearing your perspective! And that makes two of us on the Pod Race...I forgot to include it and specifically for the sound too

 

[ironwez20]

Speaking for myself.


I think its hard not to when you have some on here that criticize the ST (or for me TROS) like they are the worst things ever imagined all the while pretending that the PT is some sort of high art. That often the complaints leveled at the ST could be said about the PT.

I like moment of each trilogy and each trilogy has one film I really like, one film I really dislike and one film I am middle of the road on.

While the PT may have the more well thought out and complete story it has some of the cheesiest acting moments, some of the worst dialogue, some of the goofiest characters, some awful FX moments, some really bad directing, and some very clunky story telling moments. It took one of the all time great villains of the OT and made some fans very unhappy.

However in its defense it has a few great action scenes and some wonderful imaginative world building.

The ST has the issue of not having a complete vision and takes some huge leaps that as a fan you have to accept or wind up unhappy (emperor). The 2nd film had a major agenda and is overall crap that really derailed everything. The third film tried to course correct frustrating fans even more and the ST took chances with the OT cast that made many a fan unhappy.

In its defense it had some good action moments, some very good acting, a good storyline with Kylo and they all looked good visually especially the last two (not so much the first one)


So where I see strengths in the ST I see weaknesses in the PT and visa versa.


I think many of us that find enjoyment out of the PT have learned to ignore so much of what is bad because we have gotten use to it. The acting and script that use to curl my nails is easy to ignore... I mean the Sand speech does not even phase me anymore. Its just there.


What's funny Ironwez is you and I are very much the same with these how we like and dislike each trilogy.

You did not like the first two films in the PT yet the last film stuck the landing for you and thus probably allows you to accept the PT as a whole a bit better.

It did not for me and the PT is what it is.

I did not like the first two films in the ST but the last film stuck the landing for me and allows me to accept the ST as a whole a bit better.

It did not for you and the ST is what it is.


But yeah.. Its hard to listen to PT fans dump on the ST.. Clean out your own back yard after your throw the black kettle through the glass house you live in

Lol well yea we are kinda the same. I liked some aspects of the PT but it was ROTS that made me love it.
And nah I will always dump on the ST if a fanboy says it?s trash. The PT has flaws but it didn?t ruin star wars and destroy the fanbase. I?ve never seen such a divide.

But yes the PT is still very bad and is terrible filmmaking. But there are golden nuggets sprinkled in that make me just love ROTS. The other two . Eh I mean they are ok but ROTS for me is the real PT film

 

[ironwez20]

Epic post is epic.


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Silence jye !

 

[jye4ever]

JAWS can not make his SW saga points anymore clearer than he already perfectly has.

If TROS was OJ Simpson then JAWS has successfully got TROS off the hook!

If it doesn?t fit you must acquit lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JAWS]

JAWS can not make his SW saga points anymore clearer than he already perfectly has.

If TROS was OJ Simpson then JAWS has successfully got TROS off the hook!

If it doesn?t fit you must acquit lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JAWS]

The PT has flaws but it didn?t ruin star wars and destroy the fanbase. I?ve never seen such a divide.

The PT didn?t divide us because at the time it was pretty unanimous that it was goofy and bad. .

It didn?t destroy SW cause we all thought it was over anyways. We thought that was all we were gonna get. So we bitched and then moved on. Lucas also kept making it abundantly clear that he didnt care what the fans thought.

Everybody is freaking on the ST because they know there are more SW films to come and now their voice can be heard. People know that 1. The internet is bigger and 2. they know it can force Disney to make changes.

When you think a series is over and there are not a million YouTube channels you just move on. Don?t get me wrong. I know the internet was alive and well but it was not the pop culture weapon it is today.

So while I think it?s kinda silly to hope the ST gets erased I understand complaining so that future films will align more with people?s tastes.



I don?t know how much of this I really believe as I can?t prove any of it but there is some truth in there

 

[abake]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvtpEEEVH4A

That guy is hilarious.

 

[ironwez20]

JAWS can not make his SW saga points anymore clearer than he already perfectly has.

If TROS was OJ Simpson then JAWS has successfully got TROS off the hook!

If it doesn?t fit you must acquit lol


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No you just don?t want to see it?s flaws. No matter who tells you to

 

[JAWS]

No you just don?t want to see it?s flaws. No matter who tells you to

But I pointed out the flaws in my original post he is referring to. So I think jye is not blind to them.

 

[Otomofan]

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

Where's the like button???

OK, so I never saw the movie, just bits and pieces when it was a cam rip bootleg. The little I saw suuuuuuuucked.

Did that scene really happen, just without the ghosts? Did Mega Uber Rey really ****ing MELT the Emperor with her grrrrl power like that? Jesus, what a **** show.

Also, does anyone still think Disney is actually gonna "erase" the sequels from canon? (Like how I spelled canon correctly and not "cannon?" That irks me.)

If you really think that, you know you're getting all excited about fan fiction that a dweeb in stupid mask came up with. There's no shred of evidence that Disney would do something that galatically stupid despite how hated the movies are.

But Disney does do a lot of dumb stuff. If grrrrrl power melting the corpse of the Emperor was supposed to be some kind of "empowering" exciting moment other than the pure unfiltered cringe it was, that's humiliating.