Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[user 64404]

Before the tros retcon palps did not see him as a vessal he saw him as a threat. He was the chosen one that was supposed to destroy palps, his mission was to turn him so that prophecy would not come to pass. When anakin joined him he got greedy, he thought if they work together they would be able to unlock Plageus the wises secret. Then when obi wan ****ed him up, he was not longer a threat to palps (one lightning bolt could fry his circuits) he wanted a replacement for vader. Then luke came along, at first he saw him as a threat but vader convinced him he would be a great asset if he could be turned- thats when palp was like oh great idea he is perfect replacement for you.

Palpatine plan was always to use Vader, he never feared the chosen one prophecy, he was always overconfident in his actions that is why he was defeated by luke.
There was no retcon in TROS, in the EU Palpatine tried to do the same thing to luke in Dark empire

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

 

[user 64404]

This is the Revenge of the Sith book right?

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

This is the Revenge of the Sith book right?

Ya sorry for the delay My kid spilled some ****. its part of the disney approved canon not the original book released when sith came out



I have both and they didnt change **** to be honest, maybe out of respect to george and his story group, the bigger issue is george didnt convey alot of this **** well in the PT movies. Revenge of the sith had an emotional impact on me after reading both the story boards and the book before seeing the movie but at face value watching only the movie george failed miserably with the emotional aspects of the film its wooden as **** and completely fails to address or outright omits major story elements that would flesh out the character of anakin skywalker

 

[Prime Clone]

I have both and they didnt change **** to be honest, maybe out of respect to george and his story group, the bigger issue is george didnt convey alot of this **** well in the PT movies. Revenge of the sith had an emotional impact on me after reading both the story boards and the book before seeing the movie but at face value watching only the movie george failed miserably with the emotional aspects of the film its wooden as **** and completely fails to address or outright omits major story elements that would flesh out the character of anakin skywalker

Which elements are those? I've never read the novelisation but I rate ROTS far and away the best prequel. Also, remember books will always be able to convey more emotions and inner turmoil than movies.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Which elements are those? I've never read the novelisation but I rate ROTS far and away the best prequel. Also, remember books will always be able to convey more emotions and inner turmoil than movies.

I am not saying i dont like the movie but its way better after reading the story boards and the book. I agree books can convey these things better then movies, but good movies can too. You cant tell me you never teared up at a movie- good movies make you laugh, cry, feel uneasy a whole range of emotions, but sith was devoid of it. People should have teared up when anakin turned bad, but george failed to get “us” the audience emotionally invested in the character. The story was there it still is there, but GL chose to spend 35 minutes on the crash sequence After anakin kills dooku ( a major step in his turn) instead of taking a minute to show the conflict we get “hmm i shouldnt have done that” then its never brought up again- nor how it affected anakin.. Its the directors job to frame the best elements of the story, or in this case the character in such a way that we care about said character- we feel as he does.

Anakin is way more complex then the character we saw in sith, the movie is like a shell of the character- Not only was his turn botched To a great degree (mainly due to wasted screen time in atoc) but the build up too it was as well. It felt rushed and they made him look stupid (naivee), and one dimensional. His turn was more complex and tragic then what we saw. The first time we even saw him have any real inner conflict (outside of a tear over padme) was after he had already sliced off maces hand. It was too little too late for that

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Palpatine plan was always to use Vader, he never feared the chosen one prophecy, he was always overconfident in his actions that is why he was defeated by luke.
There was no retcon in TROS, in the EU Palpatine tried to do the same thing to luke in Dark empire

If all that was true palps had many opportunities to do this transfer but each time he stopped the act himself

1)revenge of the sith- when anakin first discovered palaptine was a sith he raised his lightsaber too him as if to kill him, he wanted to kill him too, palps even said it “you want to kill me, i can feel your hatred i can feel your anger it makes you powerful“, but he also talked him out of it by reminding him he had the power to save padme. If he wanted to possess anakin he wouldnt have stopped him and let him strike him down right then in there in his anger and rage

2)revenge of the sith-during the duel with mace windu right after he reflects the lightning mace is consumed by anger (you could see it in his eyes) when he raises his saber to strike palps down-anger and hatred are all that is needed for the transfer. He should have just let mace kill him and use him as a vessel- mace was no slouch as a jedi and suitable host

3) return of the jedi- at the very start of the fight when palaptine is goading luke into a fight luke force pulls his saber to strike palps down in anger and rage but palps allows vader to block his attack- hmm something doesnt jive here

4) Return of the jedi- after luke chops off his fathers hand the emperor actually snaps him out of his blood lust by saying now assume your fathers place at my side- instead of using that moment while he was still full of rage to trick luke into fighting him

It is terrible retcon because now his actions make no sense at all- i dont even think palps knew what he wanted or was even doing throughout the skywalker saga- a sith with dementia

 

[user 64404]

For the transfer to work the vessel must be a full fledged sith, or in case of rey just bloodline.
Palpatine first had to train him in the ways of the sith than do the transfer.
Its rituals so every step counts.
1. Anakin was a jedi, a light side user
2. Mace could control his sith side, he would not be possessed(its like a force shield)
3.Vader blocks for him own, he knows what's palpatine wants, he wants to join forces with luke to defeat the emperor
4. what took luke out of the rage was seeing what he would become if he continue that path, its was his father hands that reminder him of his own robotic hands, remebdr that he feared become Vader in Dagobah.

Palpatine wants to live forever, he wants immortality

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

For the transfer to work the vessel must be a full fledged sith, or in case of rey just bloodline.
Palpatine first had to train him in the ways of the sith than do the transfer.
Its rituals so every step counts.
1. Anakin was a jedi, a light side user
2. Mace could control his sith side, he would not be possessed(its like a force shield)
3.Vader blocks for him own, he knows what's palpatine wants, he wants to join forces with luke to defeat the emperor
4. what took luke out of the rage was seeing what he would become if he continue that path, its was his father hands that reminder him of his own robotic hands, remebdr that he feared become Vader in Dagobah.

Palpatine wants to live forever, he wants immortality

That makes no sense bloodline has to do with it now lol rey wasnt a full blown sith not even close, all that needs to happen is strike him down in anger/hatred none of that other **** (blood requiememt full blown, not full blown) was brought up in tros but again the whole thing is stupid. They werent in the movie novelization either. It just says if you strike him down in anger/hate. Again its a terrible retcon

One more- why didnt palps let kylo ren kill him in the beginning of tros, he had a host right there standing in front of him but again he talks ren out of killing him by promising him the galactic empire blah blah. Im telling you palps has dementia he has no idea what he wants or what he is doing especially after watching his arc in tros. He had been molding ben (in his head) for years and he finally has his chance to take his body but he literally prevents ben from killing him lol

 

[user 64404]

That makes no sense bloodline has to do with it now lol rey wasnt a full blown sith not even close, all that needs to happen is strike him down in anger/hatred none of that other **** (blood requiememt full blown, not full blown) was brought up in tros but again the whole thing is stupid. They werent in the movie novelization either. It just says if you strike him down in anger/hate. Again its a terrible retcon

One more- why didnt palps let kylo ren kill him in the beginning of tros, he had a host right there standing in front of him but again he talks ren out of killing him by promising him the galactic empire blah blah. Im telling you palps has dementia he has no idea what he wants or what he is doing especially after watching his arc in tros. He had been molding ben (in his head) for years and he finally has his chance to take his body but he literally prevents ben from killing him lol

Bloodline is a narrative thing that allow transfer magic, it's a shortcut
Palpatine uses kylo as a plan B, when he learn that rey is alive he make her the plan A, thats why he send Kylo after her in TROS.
In that moment Kylo wasnt anymore the one he wants, Palpatine wants Rey now probably because the transfer would be easy.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Bloodline is a narrative thing that allow transfer magic, it's a shortcut
Palpatine uses kylo as a plan B, when he learn that rey is alive he make her the plan A, thats why he send Kylo after her in TROS.
In that moment Kylo wasnt anymore the one he wants, Palpatine wants Rey now probably because the transfer would be easy.

He sent ben off to kill her for the 2nd time, first time he commanded ben to kill her as snoke- not to bring her back to him. He would have succeeded the 2nd time too had leia not interfered he had beat rey in that duel on the wreckage. She was going to lose, in the book she knows she is about to die. Palps had no clue what would happen which is why when ben showed up later with her he was like **** this im just going to kill you fools. Dude had no idea what he was doing im telling you he had dementia. Why would palps want rey when kylo was actually stronger then her, again he beat her on that Wreckage duel why would he even want the weaker force user. He even mentioned something to that effect that the “princess or mother” interferred- she did, she turned ben back and he lost his host

Rey became a last ditch effort cause at that point he knew ren was ben again so she was the only option left

 

[JAWS]

No he was literally being brainwashed like bucky. This is why it was so hard for him to kill Han solo, and he even asked him for help, its also why the act of killing han actually weakened him because he didn't want any of it, he was a puppet. Notice how bucky couldn't kill cap even when he was brainwashed its the same ****ing thing only difference is han actually helped ben do the act by grabbing the saber and saying "anything son", cap just laid there and basically said im in it for the long haul bucky which even in bucky's brainwashed state snapped him out of it for a split second. Obviously it didn't go down exactly the same way but its all pretty much brainwashing. You are not in control of yourself if someone is manipulating your thoughts to the point you are not longer making your own conscious decisions-both bucky and kylo fall into this category

Is this a book thing.. I never took it that way at all.

It was a battle inside him between the light and the dark.

He knew to fully embrace the dark side he had to do something but didnt know if he had the strength to do it. You could take he other way.. I think the film means it to have a double meaning so the audience does not see what is coming.. But I always took it as his struggle to fully embrace the dark side because he did love his father... He was torn just by his own emotions. Kylo was not nor ever all evil. But he made a choice, That was all on him. He even says in the second film "I killed Han solo"

The statement is reversed in meaning in TROS. He is not sure he has the strength to come back to the light side. Its why I love the moment.. Same speech.. Different meaning.

Its Palps / Snoke manipulation and not Brainwashing. Palps / Snoke fed things into his mind and influenced him but I do see a bucky type brainwash.


I just dont see anything in that films that leads me to believe he was a puppet... Meaning he was being controlled .

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Is this a book thing.. I never took it that way at all.

It was a battle inside him between the light and the dark.

He knew to fully embrace the dark side he had to do something but didnt know if he had the strength to do it. You could take he other way.. I think the film means it to have a double meaning so the audience does not see what is coming.. But I always took it as his struggle to fully embrace the dark side because he did love his father... He was torn just by his own emotions. Kylo was not nor ever all evil. But he made a choice, That was all on him. He even says in the second film "I killed Han solo"

The statement is reversed in meaning in TROS. He is not sure he has the strength to come back to the light side. Its why I love the moment.. Same speech.. Different meaning.

Its Palps / Snoke manipulation and not Brainwashing. Palps / Snoke fed things into his mind and influenced him but I do see a bucky type brainwash.


I just dont see anything in that films that leads me to believe he was a puppet... Meaning he was being controlled .

He was being controlled and just like bucky did he faught against it. Thats the inner conflict and why we see glimpses of the real ben even when he is kylo throughout the st. Anakin was not brainwashed like bucky or kylo he made choices for selfish reasons, he was also in control of his actions palps was not in his mind like ben, he couldnt be the jedi would have sensed it and his cover broken he had to manipulate anakin the hard way- but anakin made his own choices

 

[Khev]

The Emperor was in Anakin's head also.. Just not literally.

Actually he was, which ties in nicely with Palpatine's manipulation of Ben Solo:

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Actually he was, which ties in nicely with Palpatine's manipulation of Ben Solo:

In that scene palps is in anakins head, but at the point his cover was blown, the jedi were on their way to arrest him so it did not matter anymore. It was do or die time. At no other point in the pt did palps communicate with anakin in that way it was only that one time and again because he didnt have to hide it anymore from the jedi

 

[Khev]

In that scene palps is in anakins head, but at the point his cover was blown, the jedi were on their way to arrest him so it did not matter anymore. It was do or die time. At no other point in the pt did palps communicate with anakin in that way it was only that one time and again because he didnt have to hide it anymore from the jedi

You can't say with certainty that that was the only time he got in Anakin's head. My belief is that he was impersonating Shmi Skywalker during Anakin's nightmare in AOTC.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

You can't say with certainty that that was the only time he got in Anakin's head. My belief is that he was impersonating Shmi Skywalker during Anakin's nightmare in AOTC.

I dont watch atoc very often but if i recall correctly that scene happen right before he goes to tatoonie to rescue his mother and slaughter the tuskens? I believe i just took it as a force dream but its possible palps had something to do with it, maybe a more subtle use of the method that wouldnt be detected by the council. Maybe palps also had something to do with the nightmare about padme dying as well but Luke also had terrible visions in the ot and we know it wasnt palps right. Yoda just explains them as future visions that may or mat not come to pass but luke always ran off like anakin to save the people he saw hurting in his force dreams/visions

Vader was in lukes head he just didnt allow his father to brainwash him, he would always close his eyes and either think of ben or something else to get the voice out of his head and sever the connection-maybe luke should have taught ben his technique or maybe vader wasnt as good at it as palpatine was-which is most likely the case

In ben’s case he literally thought the voices in his head where his own since they started at such a young age. It was constantly teling him his parents hated and resented him, that they love their precious resistance more then him, he is nothing but a burden to them. This is why he has a deep hatred for the resistence and he only hates his father because thats what the voice was telling him. As he grew older palps would talk to him as vader his grandfather telling him the jedi were evil, his uncle, mother and father were evil. Palps had competely reconfigured his mind and how he thought, he just couldnt erase bens feelings or his emotions which kept pulling him towards the light and his true self

 

[user 64404]

Dude Palpatine did the same thing to the three skywalkers, Anakin,Luke and Kylo, but Luke was the only one who resisted the dark side at first(ROTJ). He manipulated through the force, remenber Palpatine was everywhere, when Vader killed him he become a sith force ghost(he is the one who mind**** kylo USING the clone Snoke, clouded anakins force vision (dreams) and mind**** Luke into killing Kylo.
Palpatine after ROTJ become a spirit opposed to the light side force ghost, he was "toxic" energy

Light side force ghost: clean spirit someone who detach himself from material things and accept his life as the force itself. He will existe inside the force until the force thinks he is needed, than he become full living force.


Dark side force ghost: is a corrupted spirit who can't let go of his previous life, he is toxic. He would be able to preserve part of his conscious essence so long as it was bound to an object like a Sith holocron but Palpatine is the strongest living sith so he became a spirit inside in his clones, thats why the clones would disintegrate.

 

[JAWS]

He was being controlled and just like bucky did he faught against it. Thats the inner conflict and why we see glimpses of the real ben even when he is kylo throughout the st. Anakin was not brainwashed like bucky or kylo he made choices for selfish reasons, he was also in control of his actions palps was not in his mind like ben, he couldnt be the jedi would have sensed it and his cover broken he had to manipulate anakin the hard way- but anakin made his own choices

I still see nothing in the films that says its bucky style mind control. All the ben solo Moments are just the fact that he has always been torn in two. He thought killing Solo would rid him of that but it just made it worse. Again I see nothing on film nor anything said in the film to make me think he is being Brainwashed/mind controlled like Bucky.

Unless you are talking about the way Hitler got people to follow him.. Or maybe even a cult leader.. but that is different then what Bucky was.. Bucky was literally a puppet and would d things even though he didnt want to. He could not help himself. Again I see Kylo making his own decisions good and bad in that film.

Actually he was, which ties in nicely with Palpatine's manipulation of Ben Solo:

I mean in his head like Vader and Snoke were actual voices in Ben Solo's

Again Anakin was manipulated.. Everything you show me there in they clip is Anakin just thinking about what Palps said to him.. Not Palps sending him a Jedi voice mail.

 

[JAWS]

Dude Palpatine did the same thing to the three skywalkers, Anakin,Luke and Kylo, but Luke was the only one who resisted the dark side at first(ROTJ). He manipulated through the force, remenber Palpatine was everywhere, when Vader killed him he become a sith force ghost(he is the one who mind**** kylo USING the clone Snoke, clouded anakins force vision (dreams) and mind**** Luke into killing Kylo.

Mind **** is more accurate to me then mind control for sure.