Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Bravomite]

For all of you that talked yourself into believing they had a plan for this cluster**** of a trilogy, and that this embarrassment of a film was a carefully woven tale that perfectly wraps up the saga...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ELygTJL8Xg

Straight from Daisy herself; it doesn't get anymore legitimate than that.

Interesting that JJ intended Rey to be a Kenobi before the dark times, before the round head. Then Rian threw that out and wanted her to be no one and then JJ wanted her to be a Palpatine then got cold feet but ultimately Disney went with it. It's good to know they had a plan though, a very well thought out plan.

It would been poetic to have a kenobi against a skywalker again only for them to come together at the end this time to defeat the sith, feels like something George might approve of / done himsefl ... the circle being now complete or something. But alas they took the bold route to subvert our expectations and had old Sheev win by possessing his not-grand-daughter-clone and burying the legacy of the Skywalkers and **** Kenobi no-one even remembers that crazy old wizard anyway.

In all seriousness this PT ST OT battle could rage on forever but deep down we are all Star Wars fans here who hate / are ambivalent towards the ST (some of us aren't quite ready to admit it yet but our subconscious is ... just take look at your vast hordes of ST memorabilia and figures and the prominence it is given in your collection).

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

For all of you that talked yourself into believing they had a plan for this cluster**** of a trilogy, and that this embarrassment of a film was a carefully woven tale that perfectly wraps up the saga...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ELygTJL8Xg

Straight from Daisy herself; it doesn't get anymore legitimate than that.

Indeed. But anybody being honest already knew this to be true anyway. Just more definitive confirmation how incompetent the Kennedy led Lucasfilm has been.

 

[chewblacca]

It’s a shame this franchise was treated like this. Ask anyone who worked on any of the sequel trilogy films and the first thing they say is “I’m a huge Star Wars fan!” Then they make something like this.

 

[JAWS]

It?s a shame this franchise was treated like this. Ask anyone who worked on any of the sequel trilogy films and the first thing they say is ?I?m a huge Star Wars fan!? Then they make something like this.

I don?t really care too much that it wasn?t planned cause I ended up liking where it went.... if I could change anything it would be that Palps was introduced earlier in the series and about 75 % of TLJ

 

[Bo Shrek]

Take what you will from the PT but we all knew there was light at the end of the tunnel at the conclusion of Return of the Jedi. Thanks to Disney, there’s really no point watching the OT anymore as we all now know the celebration at Endor was short lived:

Enter the ST

“He’s my Brother” line means Jack **** anymore as Han and Leia did not have a “Happily Ever After”
The Rebels (or Resistance) are still camping in forest and do not have a “Happily Ever After”
Luke’s Dead
Han’s Dead
Leia’s Dead
Even their child Kylo is Dead. What a sad tragic family story

Remind me why I want to watch SW again? If anything bring me more “Solo” movie as I am looking forward to seeing new adventures with Chewbacca and the Falcon (which have always been the essence of SW for me). Keep Alden Ehrenreich in there as he never really connected as a Young Ford with me so the character detaches himself from OT Solo.

 

[hellgrammite00]

I don?t really care too much that it wasn?t planned cause I ended up liking where it went.... if I could change anything it would be that Palps was introduced earlier in the series and about 75 % of TLJ

I would change TFA as well. I think it crammed in too much. I think it would have been better for the new Death Star to be revealed at the end of the movie, or the heros attempt to destroy it....but fail.

Even though it was the first of a trilogy....it didnt set up the trilogy well. The empire's last ditch effort destroyed and the hero becoming strong enough to defeat her villain. It should have built things up...not build up and try to pay off in the same movie (basically ROS did the same thing, only cramming in more stuff.)

I do not envy Rian Johnson. He was handled a bit of a mess. Rewatching TFA, it is okay as a stand alone movie, but leading to a trilogy it fails.

ROS is edited so fast, it feels more like a commercial than a movie.

 

[ZE_501]

The ST was hemmed in by real-world constraints that rendered it a suicide mission for any filmmaker. I engaged in a (long-winded) exercise in trying to re-write the ST and quickly realized the problem is that you can't pick up after ROTJ in the year 2015 without diluting and/or harming the OT ... specifically the heroes of the OT.

It's Star WARS not Star Pointed Disagreements so either you have tragedy, mass casualties and destruction (for those without plot armour) or you don't have a movie; that is if you're going to make it a sweeping saga instead of a smaller story as seen in The Mandalorian.

And if you *must* ratchet up the stakes and violence into the inferno of all-out war, then leave the OT heroes out of it. Don't ruin their lives by going all Game of Thrones on them.

There has been successful Star Wars since the OT ended; they should have stayed away from the core legend and used the rest of the property's mythos.

 

[jal76]

Take what you will from the PT but we all knew there was light at the end of the tunnel at the conclusion of Return of the Jedi. Thanks to Disney, there’s really no point watching the OT anymore as we all now know the celebration at Endor was short lived:

Enter the ST

“He’s my Brother” line means Jack **** anymore as Han and Leia did not have a “Happily Ever After”
The Rebels (or Resistance) are still camping in forest and do not have a “Happily Ever After”
Luke’s Dead
Han’s Dead
Leia’s Dead
Even their child Kylo is Dead. What a sad tragic family story

Remind me why I want to watch SW again? If anything bring me more “Solo” movie as I am looking forward to seeing new adventures with Chewbacca and the Falcon (which have always been the essence of SW for me). Keep Alden Ehrenreich in there as he never really connected as a Young Ford with me so the character detaches himself from OT Solo.

Making bad movies is one thing...but making bad movies that retcon and ruin the ones that came before them is unacceptable.
There really is no reason to rewatch Star Wars knowing that it all ends in a complete train wreck and the characters, and their accomplishments end up being erased.

 

[JAWS]

I would change TFA as well. I think it crammed in too much. I think it would have been better for the new Death Star to be revealed at the end of the movie, or the heros attempt to destroy it....but fail.

Even though it was the first of a trilogy....it didnt set up the trilogy well. The empire's last ditch effort destroyed and the hero becoming strong enough to defeat her villain. It should have built things up...not build up and try to pay off in the same movie (basically ROS did the same thing, only cramming in more stuff.)

I do not envy Rian Johnson. He was handled a bit of a mess. Rewatching TFA, it is okay as a stand alone movie, but leading to a trilogy it fails.

ROS is edited so fast, it feels more like a commercial than a movie.

I cant argue with most of this.. Like I have said repeatedly.. I hated it when it first came out.

 

[JAWS]

The ST was hemmed in by real-world constraints that rendered it a suicide mission for any filmmaker. I engaged in a (long-winded) exercise in trying to re-write the ST and quickly realized the problem is that you can't pick up after ROTJ in the year 2015 without diluting and/or harming the OT ... specifically the heroes of the OT.

It's Star WARS not Star Pointed Disagreements so either you have tragedy, mass casualties and destruction (for those without plot armour) or you don't have a movie; that is if you're going to make it a sweeping saga instead of a smaller story as seen in The Mandalorian.

And if you *must* ratchet up the stakes and violence into the inferno of all-out war, then leave the OT heroes out of it. Don't ruin their lives by going all Game of Thrones on them.

There has been successful Star Wars since the OT ended; they should have stayed away from the core legend and used the rest of the property's mythos.

I think there is a lot of truth here. Its why I came to accept the "sad story' our hero's got because it needed to happen if you were going to have the OT characters in it.

 

[JAWS]

Take what you will from the PT but we all knew there was light at the end of the tunnel at the conclusion of Return of the Jedi. Thanks to Disney, there’s really no point watching the OT anymore as we all now know the celebration at Endor was short lived:

Enter the ST

“He’s my Brother” line means Jack **** anymore as Han and Leia did not have a “Happily Ever After”
The Rebels (or Resistance) are still camping in forest and do not have a “Happily Ever After”
Luke’s Dead
Han’s Dead
Leia’s Dead
Even their child Kylo is Dead. What a sad tragic family story

Remind me why I want to watch SW again? If anything bring me more “Solo” movie as I am looking forward to seeing new adventures with Chewbacca and the Falcon (which have always been the essence of SW for me). Keep Alden Ehrenreich in there as he never really connected as a Young Ford with me so the character detaches himself from OT Solo.

3 years of peace

And everyone dies.. That is the way of things.. The way of the force

I was there with you though after TFA came out and felt exactly the same way.

But I said this once before.. SW has always been a bit of a sad story.

Way I see it.. Jedi had its happy ending.. Having any sort of "Empire" and new war would have ruined their happy ending.. It is what it is.

But I can see for sure why people would hate it.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I think there is a lot of truth here. Its why I came to accept the "sad story' our hero's got because it needed to happen if you were going to have the OT characters in it.

Completely disagree with this.

I do really wish the OT characters hadn't been placed in the hands of incompetent fools with an agenda to bring to the big screen instead of a story.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Making bad movies is one thing...but making bad movies that retcon and ruin the ones that came before them is unacceptable.
There really is no reason to rewatch Star Wars knowing that it all ends in a complete train wreck and the characters, and their accomplishments end up being erased.

100% correct. Except for the part about not watching the OT again

 

[Prime Clone]

ROS is edited so fast, it feels more like a commercial than a movie.

Yes, I had no idea what was going on for most of the time. Just when I thought things were easing off, Poe brought up Kijimi and my head exploded.

 

[ZE_501]

I think there is a lot of truth here. Its why I came to accept the "sad story' our hero's got because it needed to happen if you were going to have the OT characters in it.

I honestly *tried* to accept Han and Leia's failed marriage and patricidal son; but there wasn't enough there for me to make it worthwhile. Not by a long shot.

Completely disagree with this.

I do really wish the OT characters hadn't been placed in the hands of incompetent fools with an agenda to bring to the big screen instead of a story.

So what were their options?

1. The hard-won victory at the end of ROTJ was both partial (First Order rises) and temporary (First Order kills billions). Plus everyone's life sucks.

2. 30 years later something Very Bad is happening and the OT heroes are now mentors. All of them. I could almost see it with 1 or 2, but it starts to get messy with 6 heroes and 2 droids in play. They just sit back and let the kids risk their lives? As soon as Luke's on screen, he's all we want to see. It's problematic from a storytelling point of view. Add to this that it's 2015 and the actors are too old to be swashbuckling and blasting.

Not impossible. Maybe there's *something* they could have done. But to my mind, there was just no narrative logic to continuing after ROTJ on that scale.

Hell, the ST didn't just match the scale, they doubled down and wiped out *billions*. Alderaan was small potatoes. They made their money, and 5 years after TFA you don't need to hear me bashing the ST yet again. I gave it a shot, it didn't work for me but they still got my ticket money.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

So what were their options?

1. The hard-won victory at the end of ROTJ was both partial (First Order rises) and temporary (First Order kills billions). Plus everyone's life sucks.

2. 30 years later something Very Bad is happening and the OT heroes are now mentors. All of them. I could almost see it with 1 or 2, but it starts to get messy with 6 heroes and 2 droids in play. They just sit back and let the kids risk their lives? As soon as Luke's on screen, he's all we want to see. It's problematic from a storytelling point of view. Add to this that it's 2015 and the actors are too old to be swashbuckling and blasting.

Not impossible. Maybe there's *something* they could have done. But to my mind, there was just no narrative logic to continuing after ROTJ on that scale.

Hell, the ST didn't just match the scale, they doubled down and wiped out *billions*. Alderaan was small potatoes. They made their money, and 5 years after TFA you don't need to hear me bashing the ST yet again. I gave it a shot, it didn't work for me but they still got my ticket money.

I do not agree with your assessment that the OT characters could not fight the battles and share the spotlight with the new characters. Fact of the matter is Disney folks are on record saying they basically trashed Luke because he otherwise took over the film. Well guess what, he IS Star Wars to a large extent. He should be a primary focus. It's Disney's job to work this stuff out, not mine. But Kennedy says it's just too hard, I mean she had no source material right? Han could have died fighting alongside his pals and son. Luke could have fought the good fight against a terrifying new threat while mentoring a character who instead went Mary Sue. Leia could have worked strategically behind the Alliance attacks with an unknown until now talented military strategist named Rose Tico. But we got what we got.

They needed to create a new, compelling, and visually stunning villain a la Darth Maul who didn't get cut in half in 25 minutes. A villain with a goal and an ax to grind similar to Thanos. They failed miserably on this front.

There were many other fails such as their use of R2 and Yoda but you get the idea.

 

[Prime Clone]

It's true, they needed some kind of tragedy/downfall to justify revisiting the saga.

Wasn't George's original plan to have Palps survive Episode VI? Then Luke's secret sister (not Leia) had to coax him out of exile?

 

[ZE_501]

I do not agree with your assessment that the OT characters could not fight the battles and share the spotlight with the new characters. Fact of the matter is Disney folks are on record saying they basically trashed Luke because he otherwise took over the film. Well guess what, he IS Star Wars to a large extent. He should be a primary focus.

You bring up a good point about Luke being the heart of Star Wars. Where you and I part ways is what I perceive as the difficulty of integrating him (and other older combatants) into a story while creating a compelling new character for him to mentor that he won't completely overshadow. But you will note in my previous response I acknowledged that it wasn't impossible.

I agree with Leia's role, and if we must lose Han have him go out more heroically, sure. But my whole issue is seeing the ST not as a love letter to fans but as a cynical cash grab.

No doubt my failure of imagination is due to a combination of not being paid to do this, and general lingering disgust.

They needed to create a new, compelling, and visually stunning villain a la Darth Maul who didn't get cut in half in 25 minutes. A villain with a goal and an ax to grind similar to Thanos. They failed miserably on this front.[...]

That's not an easy thing. They had money, they had massive amounts of source material, they had access to the best people in the business. As you say, we got what we got.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

3 years of peace

And everyone dies.. That is the way of things.. The way of the force

I was there with you though after TFA came out and felt exactly the same way.

But I said this once before.. SW has always been a bit of a sad story.

Way I see it.. Jedi had its happy ending.. Having any sort of "Empire" and new war would have ruined their happy ending.. It is what it is.

But I can see for sure why people would hate it.

I dont get how you were right there with him after tfa, both luke and leia were still alive only han was dead and he died trying to bring his son back to the light. Harrison wanted han to die no way was he going to sign up for 3 movies. Neither luke or leia were tarnished in tfa and neither was han imo, outside of han being a bad husband to leia. People like to argue that it tarnishes luke cause it put him on that island but in tlj they could of said he went there to meditate (due to the islands connection to both the light and dark) at that temple to locate the dark force (eg palpatine snoke whatever) he sensed prior to the force awakening in rey. All the ot characters got tarnished in tlj (mainly), rise tried to fix it but didnt fix anything case in point making force ghost luke all powerful but still keeping him on that island instead of aiding rey in the final fight (the implication being he is still a coward in death) or having leia wait until everyone is dead (at her sons hands) and the rebels are on the brink of destruction to sacrifice herself to bring ben back to the light

 

[TaliBane]

Had to laugh at the comments from Daisy in the last few days that even she was confused re: Rey's lineage half way through filming TROS.

It's just strange that people have the lineage conversation as if it's a legit discussion when so much of the ST feels like a committee trying to pander to audiences (mixed with the last gasp of JJ's stupid mystery box approach) rather than artists breaking new ground to tell a real story that deserves to be told.