Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Had to laugh at the comments from Daisy in the last few days that even she was confused re: Rey's lineage half way through filming TROS.

It's just strange that people have the lineage conversation as if it's a legit discussion when so much of the ST feels like a committee trying to pander to audiences (mixed with the last gasp of JJ's stupid mystery box approach) rather than artists breaking new ground to tell a real story that deserves to be told.

It was even funnier when he asked her what projects she has coming up and she says video game voice overs lol. Uh ya daisy the st killed your career with that unlikeable character and wooden acting. She showed some range in tfa but after that is was all sulking or anger no range in emotion, facial expressions or line delivery lol. Its a shame too, she seems like a nice person in interviews.

I didnt realize she could smile after watching the st, but holy **** her smile is huge, she would be a perfect female Elseworlds joker with that crazy smile

 

[hellgrammite00]

Had to laugh at the comments from Daisy in the last few days that even she was confused re: Rey's lineage half way through filming TROS.

It's just strange that people have the lineage conversation as if it's a legit discussion when so much of the ST feels like a committee trying to pander to audiences (mixed with the last gasp of JJ's stupid mystery box approach) rather than artists breaking new ground to tell a real story that deserves to be told.

She mentioned that in TFA, she might be a Kenobi. Then in TLJ she was nobody. Then the third movie, your right, she thought maybe Palpatine granddaughter, but they were rushing through the movie so quick, she thought they had changed it again. She didn't know until release what they were going to go with.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

You bring up a good point about Luke being the heart of Star Wars. Where you and I part ways is what I perceive as the difficulty of integrating him (and other older combatants) into a story while creating a compelling new character for him to mentor that he won't completely overshadow. But you will note in my previous response I acknowledged that it wasn't impossible.

If it so happened that the new characters got overshadowed somewhat by the old then so what ? So long as it's a good Star Wars film why can't it play out that way? It is their series after all, they made it popular.

But good thing they chose the route they did. With popular young new Star Wars heroes like Jon Boyega to carry the torch the franchise has a bright future littered with new movies, tv shows, and appearances...right?

 

[JAWS]

I dont get how you were right there with him after tfa, both luke and leia were still alive only han was dead and he died trying to bring his son back to the light. Harrison wanted han to die no way was he going to sign up for 3 movies. Neither luke or leia were tarnished in tfa and neither was han imo, outside of han being a bad husband to leia.

The fact there was a New "Empire".. At the time I was like.. "Well there goes everything they did in Return of the Jedi... All for naught"
I was in the camp of Han being a bad father and was not happy he and Leia did not live happily ever after.

Han's death to an unknown character was a downer

The film was not good enough to do those things... So I was frustrated.

With TROS I was able to accept that the main three had to be split up and Luke failing Ben was the way to do it. So a new Empire was more acceptable because our core three hero's had been hit with a sledge hammer. The Han scene at the end also helped TFA death of Han more impactful. Did not hurt that by the time I watched TFA after TROS I was more of a Kylo Ren / Ben Solo fan and that helps the scene in TFA immensely.

People like to argue that it tarnishes luke cause it put him on that island but in tlj they could of said he went there to meditate (due to the islands connection to both the light and dark) at that temple to locate the dark force (eg palpatine snoke whatever) he sensed prior to the force awakening in rey. All the ot characters got tarnished in tlj (mainly), rise tried to fix it but didnt fix anything case in point making force ghost luke all powerful but still keeping him on that island instead of aiding rey in the final fight

Luke joining Rey in the final fight as a force Ghost would have not been true to what had come before. Even though I liked the fan edit it was unneeded.

(the implication being he is still a coward in death)

Man I am so glad that i never once viewed Luke as a coward. I feel for those of you that do.

He gave his life to help save the galaxy.. What he couldn't do is live with the mistake he made.

or having leia wait until everyone is dead (at her sons hands) and the rebels are on the brink of destruction to sacrifice herself to bring ben back to the light

Leia scene was handled perfectly and I am not sure what was wrong with how it was handled. Ben's redemption was perfect IMO.

Even if I hated TROS I still would think that all of that was handled really well. Ben's redemption is a highlight in the Skywalker saga IMO.

 

[hellgrammite00]

Leia scene was handled perfectly and I am not sure what was wrong with how it was handled. Ben's redemption was perfect IMO.

Even if I hated TROS I still would think that all of that was handled really well. Ben's redemption is a highlight in the Skywalker saga IMO.

Perfect? Ben was crap in the new trilogy story and redemption wise. What is good is Adam Driver. That man took what amounts too bad fan-fiction lines, and made it seem like gold. Taking a bad and poorly executed character, but entertaining me through it makes him the MVP of the new trilogy no doubt. Few people could elevate this type of material.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Bens redemption was handled fine but the rationale for why leia waited so long to do that was not.

The new order part did not bother me cause they were just starting out. If there was no Evil or bad guys there would be no movie. i always assumed it was remnants of the old empire. The only stupid thing is how the resistance did not know about starkiller base or that they were building such a weapon until after they used it.

Luke was a coward For many reasons


- for leaving his sister and friends to die and fend for themselves after creating kylo ren
- igniting his saber and contemplating killing his nephew while he sleeps of all things because he sense dark thoughts But had not acted on them. What kind of person kills someone in their sleep a coward
- hiding out on island while people he cares about battles forces that he knows they cannot contend with
- even when rey pleads with him for help he is to scared to confront his mistakes, he even admitted this in tros that he was wrong he shouldnt have hid away like a coward
- sending a projection of himself to aid the rebels instead of doing something in the flesh
- literally saying “ive sensed/seen this kind of power before it didnt SCARE me enough then but it does now”- do people need to be hit on the head he tells you in movie he was scared lol
- the way he looked at rey when she kicked his ass in that stick duel and nearly killed him with his old saber

I dont see how anyone can watch tlj and not think of him as a coward or a loser

 

[ironwez20]

For all of you that talked yourself into believing they had a plan for this cluster**** of a trilogy, and that this embarrassment of a film was a carefully woven tale that perfectly wraps up the saga...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ELygTJL8Xg

Straight from Daisy herself; it doesn't get anymore legitimate than that.

Lol.

IT FlOweD So WeLl! EVERYTHING wAS SeT Up AnD EXeCUTeD PErFeCTlY

Lmao anybody who believed that was high on multiple narcotics

 

[JAWS]

Completely disagree with this.

I do really wish the OT characters hadn't been placed in the hands of incompetent fools with an agenda to bring to the big screen instead of a story.

As I have said before.. For the sake of story you had to split up the core group... Otherwise there should be no 2nd Empire..

Ben Solo was that reason for the breakup of our hero's

How is Luke supposed to face his best friend after he screwed up in the worst possible way with his friend's kid?

How is he to face his sister after his grave mistake?

And Han and Leia splitting was perfectly acceptable as it happens all the time with parents who lose a child.

Palps / Snoke knew to bring back the Empire he had to destroy the Skywalkers

If they never were tore apart then I might have had to watch three films of senior citizens fighting in laser battles and lightsaber duels.. It could have been done well.. Or it could have looked like rose charging on the star destroyer


But I understand if people don't like that.. Watching our hero's fall is not easy. Like I said I was not happy after TFA with the direction they took the characters.. But I saw the full picture and could accept it and even like it.


I will not disagree that as a whole it could have been handled / told better. The fact that I really disliked the first two before TROS is proof that I fee that way.

 

[hellgrammite00]

Lol.

IT FlOweD So WeLl! EVERYTHING wAS SeT Up AnD EXeCUTeD PErFeCTlY

Lmao anybody who believed that was high on multiple narcotics

I know. People here like Ben's redemption. I like the concept in theory, but in execution I laughed at it the first time. Vader you could believe because he didnt even realize he had any family left. He learned there was actually hope left.

Ben meanwhile is sword raping his friends and family, but would lose to anybody with the slightest force powers. Then he has to rebuild his mask and seek the emperor out because the new trilogy never believed in him as a credible or serious threat...Kylo Ren is more the Draco Malfoy of the series. In TLJ they made it seem he still somewhat cared for his mother...but that was just thrown in. You can't hack han solo in half, and tell me that is so easily redeemed. Maybe if Leia was killed by the emperor or something, I would have liked it.

But Adam Driver is a beast of an actor I keep saying. He elevated poor soap opera drama to another level.

But just like how they handled Luke, its a mess, and a good idea is not executed. So it turns into a joke or just bad.

 

[Prime Clone]

But Kennedy says it's just too hard, I mean she had no source material right?

That was truly gobsmacking. Her highly paid scriptwriters couldn't come up with anything? The OT never had source material (aside from Flash Gordon, Campbell and Kurosawa).

At least I got to see some Dark Empire plot points in the ST.

Seems to be a recurring problem today. GoT floundered when they ran out of books.

 

[JAWS]

Perfect? Ben was crap in the new trilogy story and redemption wise. What is good is Adam Driver. That man took what amounts too bad fan-fiction lines, and made it seem like gold. Taking a bad and poorly executed character, but entertaining me through it makes him the MVP of the new trilogy no doubt. Few people could elevate this type of material.

Well Adam Driver may be the reason for all of that.. but because of that he is in my top 4 SW characters... Because of him I found myself rooting for his Redemption

Bens redemption was handled fine but the rationale for why leia waited so long to do that was not.

Luke was a coward For many reasons


- for leaving his sister and friends to die and fend for themselves after creating kylo ren
- igniting his saber and contemplating killing his nephew while he sleeps of all things because he sense dark thoughts But had not acted on them. What kind of person kills someone in their sleep a coward
- hiding out on island while people he cares about battles forces that he knows they cannot contend with
- even when rey pleads with him for help he is to scared to confront his mistakes, he even admitted this in tros that he was wrong he shouldnt have hid away like a coward
- sending a projection of himself to aid the rebels instead of doing something in the flesh
- literally saying “ive sensed the his kind of power before it didnt SCARE me enough then but it does now”- do people need to be hit on the head he tells you in movie he was scared lol

I dont see how anyone can watch tlj and not think of him as a coward or a loser

I'm sorry I just dont see it that way... Due to his bad move and lets face it, we all have thoughts or actions that we regret... Is Luke supposed to be above that.. It was a fleeting thought where he ignited his saber on instinct.

He screwed up in a monumental way.. And felt the Galaxy was better off without him. Was his thinking correct.. Nope.. He was flawed and dealing with massive amounts of Guilt.. I know people who go into great fits of depression and anxiety because of guilt. It made Luke human.. Something that I always thought the Saga was great at doing. Luke was all about his feelings.. So guilt is going to hit him especially hard.

Sending a projection of himself?? I mean I think he knew that was going to kill him... Whats the diff if he is there or not.. The outcome he desired was the same. And to give your life for friend/family and galaxy is not the act of a coward. Plus I always figured there just was not enough time to get there. X-wing or no X-wing.. I guess he could have went with Rey but where is the drama in that?

So Luke was scared.. He ultimately went and saw his sister and confronted Ben and laid his life down.. Being scared of something does not make you a coward. Hero's will always tell you that they are scared but they chose to act.. It took Luke a lot of time to get over his fear and act but like I said Guilt and depression will screw with the best of men.


Having said all this.. It would have been more fun to see Luke in person confront Kylo. I wont deny that.. On a dramatic level it would have been much more enjoyable

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Even obi wan acted when he had too, sure he hid away while his jedi friends were being slaughtered but he did that to protect luke. What luke did was just terrible, he was no hero in the st he was a pathetic shell of his former self. Luke and fear should never be used in the same sentence. This is the same guy that charged headlong to face vader when he was not ready during empire that told yoda he doesnt fear anything and yoda says you will be. He confronted both the emperor and vader at once fear my ass, there is no fear in luke he confronted his fear long ago and overcome it all tlj did was regress him into an unrecognizable character

 

[Prime Clone]

Palpatine's "every voice in your head" line has helped me rationalise Luke's actions. He may have stumbled on to Palps' presence in Ben's head and instinctively ignited his saber.

 

[JAWS]

I know. People here like Ben's redemption. I like the concept in theory, but in execution I laughed at it the first time. Vader you could believe because he didnt even realize he had any family left. He learned there was actually hope left.

Ben meanwhile is sword raping his friends and family, but would lose to anybody with the slightest force powers. Then he has to rebuild his mask and seek the emperor out because the new trilogy never believed in him as a credible or serious threat...Kylo Ren is more the Draco Malfoy of the series. In TLJ they made it seem he still somewhat cared for his mother...but that was just thrown in. You can't hack han solo in half, and tell me that is so easily redeemed. Maybe if Leia was killed by the emperor or something, I would have liked it.

But Adam Driver is a beast of an actor I keep saying. He elevated poor soap opera drama to another level.

But just like how they handled Luke, its a mess, and a good idea is not executed. So it turns into a joke or just bad.

Well Vader was a Draco also... I mean he killed kids and unarmed aliens and then got his but beat by the first force user he comes across, then he is not even 2nd in charge.. he is put under Tarkin.. he finally finds his balls only to lose them again in ROTJ

Seems like Kylo and Vader were very similar.. They thought they were evil bad asses but really just all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

[JAWS]

Even obi wan acted when he had too, sure he hid away while his jedi friends were being slaughtered but he did that to protect luke. What luke did was just terrible, he was no hero in the st he was a pathetic shell of his former self. Luke and fear should never be used in the same sentence. This is the same guy that charged headlong to face vader when he was not ready during empire that told yoda he doesnt fear anything and yoda says you will be. He confronted both the emperor and vader at once fear my ass

So you are saying that Yoda was a coward cause he stayed hidden while the galaxy was being taken over? LOL I am not going down this road again That was a discussion 200 pages ago

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

So you are saying that Yoda was a coward cause he stayed hidden while the galaxy was being taken over? LOL I am not going down this road again That was a discussion 200 pages ago

No i didnt say anything about yoda being a coward i said he told luke he would be afraid when he confronts vader after luke told him he wasnt afraid. Luke was never a coward in the ot it was the st that turned him into one

 

[JAWS]

You can't hack han solo in half, and tell me that is so easily redeemed..

Easy.. You call that easy

I think because we know that the Emperor/ snoke poisoned Ben's head.. Had him convinced his father didn't care.. And then showing the love he really had for his father worked perfectly..

Like I have said before.. It was the killing of Han that started Ben down the path of redemption. Its why he lost his battle to Rey. He was forever torn.. he did what he thought he had to to go full dark side (Like Vader killing kids) but it didn't work (Like Anakin shedding a tear for his evil deeds)

Again.. its like Grandfather like Grandson

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Well Adam Driver may be the reason for all of that.. but because of that he is in my top 4 SW characters... Because of him I found myself rooting for his Redemption





I'm sorry I just dont see it that way... Due to his bad move and lets face it, we all have thoughts or actions that we regret... Is Luke supposed to be above that.. It was a fleeting thought where he ignited his saber on instinct.

He screwed up in a monumental way.. And felt the Galaxy was better off without him. Was his thinking correct.. Nope.. He was flawed and dealing with massive amounts of Guilt.. I know people who go into great fits of depression and anxiety because of guilt. It made Luke human.. Something that I always thought the Saga was great at doing. Luke was all about his feelings.. So guilt is going to hit him especially hard.

Sending a projection of himself?? I mean I think he knew that was going to kill him... Whats the diff if he is there or not.. The outcome he desired was the same. And to give your life for friend/family and galaxy is not the act of a coward. Plus I always figured there just was not enough time to get there. X-wing or no X-wing.. I guess he could have went with Rey but where is the drama in that?

So Luke was scared.. He ultimately went and saw his sister and confronted Ben and laid his life down.. Being scared of something does not make you a coward. Hero's will always tell you that they are scared but they chose to act.. It took Luke a lot of time to get over his fear and act but like I said Guilt and depression will screw with the best of men.


Having said all this.. It would have been more fun to see Luke in person confront Kylo. I wont deny that.. On a dramatic level it would have been much more enjoyable

Disney came out and said the projection didnt kill him, he was powerful enough to do that, he died cause he was at peace like he was the first jedi to willingly become one with the force without being killed. It was conveyed terribly on screen though like most of the st and its plot holes and character inconsistencies galore

This begs the question why was luke at peace when the dark threat was still at large and the resistance was still losing the war. All he did was buy time for them to escape but they were not in a good place at the end of tlj when he willed himself to death and became one with the force

 

[JAWS]

No i didnt say anything about yoda being a coward i said he told luke he would be afraid when he confronts vader after luke told him he wasnt afraid. Luke was never a coward in the ot it was the st that turned him into one

Sorry.. I was referring to you saying that even Kenobi came out of hiding to help... My point was.. Yoda did not. he stayed hidden while all his Jedi friends were slaughtered.

 

[JAWS]

Disney came out and said the projection didnt kill him, he was powerful enough to do that butbhe just died cause he was at peace like he was first jedi to willingly become one with the force without being killed

Well thats not what it looked like in the movie.. And i could care less what Disney says unless its on the screen.. So will go that the force projection killed him.. Because the other ideas is Stupid