Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[a-dev]

The PT still always had a large amount fans and apologists and I say that as someone who really has to pick and choose what parts I can enjoy. The Clone Wars brought in new kids and reinforced existing staunch supporters of the PT. Also the PT wasn't malicious towards the OT, so it's sins are much easier to forgive.

On the contrary the ST has very few people left who give a damn. Just a few Twilight loving Reylos and shippers left. Their Twitter "fans" have mostly moved on to the next franchise to hijack and the next person to cancel. There won't be any such revival here.

That could just mean it takes longer to get its fanbase - and obviously that would not have been Disney's ideal scenario. But as long as Star Wars continues to be a thing (which so far it does, albeit on TV for now) there will always be opportunities for new fans to come along with no baggage - no vested interests in hating something that previous generations hated, no determination to insist that the thing they hate is objectively worse than the thing that the generation before them had hated and so on. That's essentially what's going on in fandom today - the Battle of What to Hate More

edit - I liked the sound of that so much I've decided to capitalize the first letters

 

[jye4ever]

That could just mean it takes longer to get its fanbase - and obviously that would not have been Disney's ideal scenario. But as long as Star Wars continues to be a thing (which so far it does, albeit on TV for now) there will always be opportunities for new fans to come along with no baggage - no vested interests in hating something that previous generations hated, no determination to insist that the thing they hate is objectively worse than the thing that the generation before them had hated and so on. That's essentially what's going on in fandom today - the battle of what to hate more

Turd already made up his mind ain’t no logic going to penetrate that thick rancor skull of his lol

 

[TheDucky]

Except this happens all the time in reality


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Palpatine was a meticulous planner, highly intelligent, five steps ahead. It is garbage story telling for him not to use them.

Ah.....the PT is not universally loved. It has its fans, but certainly not universal.

I think the PT and ST have about the same amount of people whom like them. The PT has stronger more serious fans overall, but in my little world everyone hates the PT. Some of them accept ROTS, but that?s it.

Pretty sure most of the board here does not have a positive view of the PT or ST.

I doubt even though OT is universally loved anymore either. The younger fans seem to discard those as too old now.


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The PT and ST does not have the same amount of fans. No where close. When the PT released, so did new books, comics, games, figures, toys... golden age of Star Wars. Now all new shows have strong PT ties, no ST ties. Why? Because the PT has far more fans. It?s why it sells and ST doesn?t.

The PT has been becoming more loved as time goes on - not by the people who hated it from the early days - but by a combination of the people who were very young when they came out and are adults now, reveling in nostalgia just like the OT generations - and by new kids watching them at any given time, their minds without preconceptions about what to expect.

The same could well prove to be the case with the sequel trilogy. Anyone who refuses to accept this as a possibility is as naive as I was when I assumed the PT would always be laughed at.

ST will never ever be loved like the PT nor have a resurgence. While y?all were bashing the PT years back, it was adding hundreds of millions, if not a billion, to the value of the brand. PT era was the golden age of Star Wars with books, comics, games, figures, and toys that sold massive amounts. It then led to The Clone Wars, a beloved show that had it?s own line of merch. PT love has carried to today, all showd have heavy PT ties and PT merch sells out.

The ST never had this. It bombed on the merch side. There are no new spinoff ST shows, no ST ties in the new shows, figures and toy sales historically bombed, very little ST comics and books (which had low sales). You can even compare halloween costume sales and see the PT had a young base and the ST didn?t.

Not to mention, PT was the only Star Wars content out. ST has The Mandalorian to compete with and the MCU, and by all metrics, have lost to both.

Kids today love the PT and Mando. There is nothing to make anyone believe the ST will have a resurgence.

The PT still always had a large amount fans and apologists and I say that as someone who really has to pick and choose what parts I can enjoy. The Clone Wars brought in new kids and reinforced existing staunch supporters of the PT. Also the PT wasn't malicious towards the OT, so it's sins are much easier to forgive.

On the contrary the ST has very few people left who give a damn. Just a few Twilight loving Reylos and shippers left. Their Twitter "fans" have mostly moved on to the next franchise to hijack and the next person to cancel. There won't be any such revival here.

Exactly

 

[a-dev]

I've read these arguments before and I stand by what I said. We all think we're the final word...until the next generation comes along, shrugs their shoulders and makes up their own mind.

 

[TheDucky]

There is zero evidence to suggest that. PT had mountains of evidence to suggest it.

 

[ironwez20]

Idk I see kids today liking anakin and the memes and the old stuff more than rey. Maybe they?ll be a small resurgence but I doubt it. When the PT came out you had so much more stuff that followed. You had games, shows and toys.

And the fanbase I see for the ST were reylo and Poe /finn fans but they just will move on to the next thing. Twitter abd tumblr aren?t huge fans of the ST .

Also I?ve been seeing empire strikes back and revenge of the Sith being held as the greatest Star Wars movies of all time. I just don?t see any of the ST movies coming close to that cause the kids today just didn?t connect with the characters.

I also believe OT purist moved over to the darkside and saw that the PT isn?t as bad as it seemed after watching there fav characters get butchered on screen.

Plus again. All anakin and obiwan rots merch sells out completely. Hate it or love it the movie made a huge impact. Baby yoda made a huge impact . That stupid rolling droid has been long since forgotten

 

[jal76]

It?s interesting to consider that in the future the ST could build its own fan base the way that the PT did.
Anything is possible, but sadly all signs point to this not happening with the ST.
The reason is the type of fan that the ST attracts. It takes a certain kind of fan to really keep a property alive without a glut of new material.
The OT had those fans all along, so did the PT, but the ST does not.
The current ST fans are the folks who supported Twilight, Divergent, The Hunger Games, maybe even Fifty Shades of Gray too, why not?
The second those properties stopped releasing movies, the fandom vanished.
There?s no reason to think that those same people have not already dropped the ST the same way they dropped all of their other faves.
Without that group I?m not sure that the ST has any other fans left.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Palpatine was a meticulous planner, highly intelligent, five steps ahead. It is garbage story telling for him not to use them.

What exactly would Palpatine do with more star destroyers being in service during the OT era? He already had the Alliance completely outmatched in terms of space combat firepower. And the systems under his Imperial rule were being compliant enough.

Battles with rebels would've mostly been skirmishes on the ground. The Rebellion's attack on the first death star was pretty much considered a suicide mission, but just better than trying nothing. And the second one was made in the hopes of pulling off a sneak attack.

Palpatine regarded the Rebellion as a "puny little band." He deliberately leaked DS2 intel to them just to draw them out there in order to finish them off. The Empire already had the firepower to accomplish exactly that if his ground forces with "an entire legion of my best troops" hadn't lost the shield generator to a bunch of teddy bears.

I think the TROS "Final Order" fleet of star destroyers was a really stupid plot point, but by the comic placing the origins in the OT era, it becomes a contingency plan. And by their very nature, contingency plans only work if you *don't* let the enemy know about the details until *after* you've lost.

 

[TheDucky]

What exactly would Palpatine do with more star destroyers being in service during the OT era? He already had the Alliance completely outmatched in terms of space combat firepower. And the systems under his Imperial rule were being compliant enough.

Battles with rebels would've mostly been skirmishes on the ground. The Rebellion's attack on the first death star was pretty much considered a suicide mission, but just better than trying nothing. And the second one was made in the hopes of pulling off a sneak attack.

Palpatine regarded the Rebellion as a "puny little band." He deliberately leaked DS2 intel to them just to draw them out there in order to finish them off. The Empire already had the firepower to accomplish exactly that if his ground forces with "an entire legion of my best troops" hadn't lost the shield generator to a bunch of teddy bears.

I think the TROS "Final Order" fleet of star destroyers was a really stupid plot point, but by the comic placing the origins in the OT era, it becomes a contingency plan. And by their very nature, contingency plans only work if you *don't* let the enemy know about the details until *after* you've lost.

WTF you mean what would he do.

He had a thousand. He could put them around the Death Star. Rebels instantly lose.

Don’t defend this. It makes no sense.

 

[xipotec]

Idk I see kids today liking anakin and the memes and the old stuff more than rey. Maybe they?ll be a small resurgence but I doubt it. When the PT came out you had so much more stuff that followed. You had games, shows and toys.

And the fanbase I see for the ST were reylo and Poe /finn fans but they just will move on to the next thing. Twitter abd tumblr aren?t huge fans of the ST .

Also I?ve been seeing empire strikes back and revenge of the Sith being held as the greatest Star Wars movies of all time. I just don?t see any of the ST movies coming close to that cause the kids today just didn?t connect with the characters.

I also believe OT purist moved over to the darkside and saw that the PT isn?t as bad as it seemed after watching there fav characters get butchered on screen.

Plus again. All anakin and obiwan rots merch sells out completely. Hate it or love it the movie made a huge impact. Baby yoda made a huge impact . That stupid rolling droid has been long since forgotten

You make some good points, so how much of the current generation can ever really become attached to anything?

Marvel is already a past thing for a lot of the people who were ravenous for the movies from the current generation.

And liking a film because of funny memes is not really glowing praise. My son loves the memes but finds the films goofy. Liking SW cause it?s kitschy or funny is a far cry from what OT fans liked about the OT.

If you like the film to make fun of it, it?s not really liking the film to me.


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[xipotec]

It?s interesting to consider that in the future the ST could build its own fan base the way that the PT did.
Anything is possible, but sadly all signs point to this not happening with the ST.
The reason is the type of fan that the ST attracts. It takes a certain kind of fan to really keep a property alive without a glut of new material.
The OT had those fans all along, so did the PT, but the ST does not.
The current ST fans are the folks who supported Twilight, Divergent, The Hunger Games, maybe even Fifty Shades of Gray too, why not?
The second those properties stopped releasing movies, the fandom vanished.
There?s no reason to think that those same people have not already dropped the ST the same way they dropped all of their other faves.
Without that group I?m not sure that the ST has any other fans left.

This is just false.

Many OT fans liked the films, but just are not as invested as they were as children.

We grew up and now have lives and cannot devote as much of our existence to a fantasy world .

I think the ST was multigenerational , but I agree it was skewed to the younger generation, as was the PT.


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[xipotec]

What exactly would Palpatine do with more star destroyers being in service during the OT era? He already had the Alliance completely outmatched in terms of space combat firepower. And the systems under his Imperial rule were being compliant enough.

Battles with rebels would've mostly been skirmishes on the ground. The Rebellion's attack on the first death star was pretty much considered a suicide mission, but just better than trying nothing. And the second one was made in the hopes of pulling off a sneak attack.

Palpatine regarded the Rebellion as a "puny little band." He deliberately leaked DS2 intel to them just to draw them out there in order to finish them off. The Empire already had the firepower to accomplish exactly that if his ground forces with "an entire legion of my best troops" hadn't lost the shield generator to a bunch of teddy bears.

I think the TROS "Final Order" fleet of star destroyers was a really stupid plot point, but by the comic placing the origins in the OT era, it becomes a contingency plan. And by their very nature, contingency plans only work if you *don't* let the enemy know about the details until *after* you've lost.

Well said , you took the words right out of my mouth.

If someone does not understand how Palpatine regarded the Rebellion at this point, they just do not understand the character.

He never put any emphasis on them, they were an annoyance ......after the OT, it became about blind revenge.


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[ajp4mgs]

WTF you mean what would he do.

He had a thousand. He could put them around the Death Star. Rebels instantly lose.

Don?t defend this. It makes no sense.

You've watched ROTJ, right? Remember when Lando questions why the star destroyers aren't attacking? As Piett put it: "We only need to keep them from escaping."

Palpatine wanted the Rebellion to arrive and make an approach on the Death Star thinking it was vulnerable. When shields were still up and they turned around, a wall of star destroyers was there just to block an escape trajectory. Palpatine already had enough of those to accomplish that. He wanted to make a spectacle out of vanquishing the Rebellion. Didn't take them seriously enough. Overconfidence being his weakness, I guess was the point.

If those star destroyers (plus more!) had been around the DS2, the Rebels would've seen the trap and just turned around and jumped to hyperspace to escape. And if you blocked them off with another squadron on the opposite side, you'd have two groups of star destroyers potentially firing in the direction of one another (and some of those would be firing in the direction of the DS2 itself ).

You say that Palpatine should be five steps ahead as a strategist, yet you'd have him planning battles even more idiotically than he already did. Perhaps you need a refresher on what his strategy was, so here are the ROTJ space battle scenes to make it convenient for you.

 

[Prime Clone]

My major annoyance with the Final Order is that it looked OT-era. At least placing its origins in the OT accounts for that.

 

[matticus]

The worst thing JJ did was copy the OT. No, got to be progressive bro. He missed on characters and copied the plot. Remember that EU? Full of books and games? Give me 1 hr and I would take the best characters/themes/plots and streamline them into a GREAT trilogy. To completely ignore those characters/plots/themes was simply stupid. Could have made the Thrawn Trilogy into animated movies. Seems like SW D+ is just starting to dabble into Luke's Jedi Academy. They are going there, problem is the ST effed it up and is like you wanting to see the Black Widow movie, but know that she is dead in present continuity. Still possible to make the academy stuff interesting.

 

[ironwez20]

Right? So much lore and they just copied the OT. Enough storm troopers vs rebels. Damn that?s boring . They complained they didn?t have anything to go off of like marvel.

Uhhhh huh?

Star Wars has more books and lore than marvel and probably DC put together. Idiots worked on this

 

[e30ernest]

Right? So much lore and they just copied the OT. Enough storm troopers vs rebels. Damn that?s boring . They complained they didn?t have anything to go off of like marvel.

Uhhhh huh?

Star Wars has more books and lore than marvel and probably DC put together. Idiots worked on this

Even if they didn't go with the books, there is enough openness in the OT and PT films to create something new out of the ST. IMO, TFA was a very weak start, TLJ would have made a good turn had they followed up on the third installment. But they got scared and backpedaled back to follow TFA.

 

[Prime Clone]

TLJ started to borrow from the EU and then ROTS went full EU.

 

[chrisstbh]

Right? So much lore and they just copied the OT. Enough storm troopers vs rebels. Damn that?s boring . They complained they didn?t have anything to go off of like marvel.

Uhhhh huh?

Star Wars has more books and lore than marvel and probably DC put together. Idiots worked on this

Uhhhh uhhhh sorry guys we cant create anything new because we dont have anything to copy so here is a slightly different but significantly worse OT.

 

[matticus]

TLJ was an abomination that didn't make any sense at all. I don't think Rian was a fan of SW at all, just wanted it on his resume.