Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Darthrazz]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Your Rey part is very well articulated great job there your insight made it very easy to extrapolate the positives from the story structure instead of wasting energy focusing on the negatives

Regarding Luke we can’t close the book on him just yet though.

Thank you! You are probably right about Luke.

 

[xipotec]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

What Rey did was reflex. No tapping into the Force. No guidance from an Obi Wan.

How do you figure? Could have just as easily been force guided....

I mean I get your jist, maybe would have been easier for some to swallow if she and the troopers shot at each other a bit?

I figure people wanted to see her struggle at least as much as Luke did....but as it’s been said, by Skywalker himself , he has not seen so much raw power in anyone before .....I figure that means everyone he knows....Yoda , Vader, Palpatine, Kylo and all the students...

That’s pretty strong and goes a long way to explaining a lot of things....

She just has not tapped that power conscience yet.

 

[Vault Boy]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

The Force has now become a cheap anti PIS device. The answer to everything is "because of the Force".

 

[Vault Boy]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

How do you figure? Could have just as easily been force guided....

I mean I get your jist, maybe would have been easier for some to swallow if she and the troopers shot at each other a bit?

I figure people wanted to see her struggle at least as much as Luke did....but as it’s been said, by Skywalker himself , he has not seen so much raw power in anyone before .....I figure that means everyone he knows....Yoda , Vader, Palpatine, Kylo and all the students...

That’s pretty strong and goes a long way to explaining a lot of things....

She just has not tapped that power conscience yet.

I'm not saying the Force wouldn't help her at all but come on. She kills 2 Stormtroopers in a total of 3 shots at a great distance with a pistol. Not even a rifle.

 

[loki2371]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

And how many people exactly has Luke seen? That statement holds no weight and was dumb to begin with. What does raw power even mean? We have no idea how many force sensitive people were at his new temple. Now if that statement came from Yoda who trained jedi for hundreds of years, it would have better meaning and hold significance. I'm sorry, but I find it hard we are to believe Rey and Kylo to be more powerful than yoda or Anakin.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Vault Boy are you saying that you don't like how Rey's abilities were explained in TFA and TLJ? Tell us more.

 

[loki2371]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Vault Boy are you saying that you don't like how Rey's abilities were explained in TFA and TLJ? Tell us more.

Rey's abilities were explained? Oh yeah, "something inside me" bull crap. Or Snokes "there has been an awakening". Whatever. I guess that's all that's needed anymore for a compelling back story. About as genuine as a parent telling their kid "because I said so".

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Rey's abilities were explained? Oh yeah, "something inside me" bull crap. Or Snokes "there has been an awakening". Whatever. I guess that's all that's needed anymore for a compelling back story. About as genuine as a parent telling their kid "because I said so".

Is there anything else you'd like to add on the subject?

 

[Chakor]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Rey's abilities were explained? Oh yeah, "something inside me" bull crap. Or Snokes "there has been an awakening". Whatever. I guess that's all that's needed anymore for a compelling back story. About as genuine as a parent telling their kid "because I said so".

 

[Ce Ilhuicamina]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

"The Force did it" is the new "A Wizard did it".

 

[loki2371]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Is there anything else you'd like to add on the subject?

I must admit I haven't watched TFA since it was released on bluray and I'd like to forget having seen TLJ but is seered into my brain and I cant seem to get those awful images and memories out of my head.

Did I miss something about on how Rey's greatness was explained? It seemed JJ had a story progression idea to be further explained with the scene in Maz's castle and Anakin's lightsaber calling to Rey. I assumed it had some significance. But like Luke tossing the saber over his shoulder, so too did Rian with pretty much everything JJ tried to set up.

 

[xipotec]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

And how many people exactly has Luke seen? That statement holds no weight and was dumb to begin with. What does raw power even mean? We have no idea how many force sensitive people were at his new temple. Now if that statement came from Yoda who trained jedi for hundreds of years, it would have better meaning and hold significance. I'm sorry, but I find it hard we are to believe Rey and Kylo to be more powerful than yoda or Anakin.

Well not everyone needs detailed documents and scenes to show explicitly how one space wizard is stronger then another space wizard , aside from another character saying so....

I mean Anakin was exactly the same, he’s was the chosen one, according to Qui Gon.....has a high Iron/midichlorian count or something ......so naturally he can fly a space ship (which even thou he is said to be a great POD racer....not a fighter pilot) and blow up a space station (that dozens of other pilots can’t do) at 9 years old....

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[loki2371]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Well not everyone needs detailed documents and scenes to show explicitly how one space wizard is stronger then another space wizard , aside from another character saying so....

I mean Anakin was exactly the same, he’s was the chosen one, according to Qui Gon.....has a high Iron/midichlorian count or something ......so naturally he can fly a space ship (which even thou he is said to be a great POD racer....not a fighter pilot) and blow up a space station (that dozens of other pilots can’t do) at 9 years old....

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Anakin, at age 9. relied on his instinct and intuition. An established natural force ability as seen with Obi-Wan's quick lesson to Luke on the Falcon on wearing the helmet with the blast shield down so he couldn't see which enabled him to deflect the bolts from the little droid. And the line "your eye's can deceive you, don't trust them". Same way Luke was able to bullseye Womprats in his T16 and shoot the exhaust port on the Death Star in the X-Wing without the aid of his nav computer. But he was already "the best bush pilot in the outer rim" according to Biggs. He was 19, so I assume he was flying for quite some time already.

And yes, while Anakins heroics in the ship were a bit much, he was on auto pilot that brought him into space to the battle. Plus he had R2 to help out. Still a little far fetched, but more thought out than anything in TLJ. And then little Ani trained for 10 years at the Jedi temple to learn how to manipulate all the forces other abilities. From 100's of the Jedi's best trained masters. Neither Anakin or Luke were levitating rocks, force communicating, resisting mind probes form someone with raw power, using a lightsaber like a trained master until after being taught. And even then it was years of practice not after a few days. Rey took on Kylo like it was nothing, Luke got his ass handed to him by Vader. Yeah yeah, Kylo was injured by Chewies amazing bowcaster that Han had never picked up or fired in their 30+ year relationship. At least JJ used juxtaposition to make it known Keylo was in pain. From Rian we got a rebel tasting the ground to let us know it was salt.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Yeah yeah, Kylo was injured by Chewies amazing bowcaster that Han had never picked up or fired in their 30+ year relationship.

Even with that little get out of jail card it was still a stupid thing to do having the main hero personally defeat the main villain in the first movie. They should have written a way around it. Because here comes the third and final movie, where it appears Kylo is to be Rey's sole adversary - and it's already 1-0 to Rey, 2-0 if you include the way she mentally overpowered him in that earlier TFA scene. What are they gonna do now? Have Kylo beat her at a point where she can only be stronger in the force than she was previously? Somehow I doubt it. So you've basically got a whole trilogy where the central hero wins again and again. It goes against the convention of these films.

Imagine if Luke beat Vader in Empire. Then just beat him again in Jedi. Or if Anakin beat Dooku in AOTC, and then again in ROTS. Would have sucked....ok AOTC and ROTS sucked anyway but you get the point. The threat of the villain has to be maintained until his ultimate defeat.

This is where the Mary Sue stuff comes from, this is why people, including a feminist woman on this forum, say she has no arc, no journey. And this retcon explanation of Matrix-style force downloading when she touched the lightsaber or whatever arguably makes it worse, not better, because it just makes everything easy for her. A sort of soft bigotry of low expectations thing - far from what they think they're doing with the character.

 

[loki2371]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Even with that little get out of jail card it was still a stupid thing to do having the main hero personally defeat the main villain in the first movie. Because here comes the third and final movie, where it appears Kylo is to be Rey's sole adversary - and it's already 1-0 to Rey, 2-0 if you include the way she mentally overpowered him in that earlier TFA scene. What are they gonna do now? Have Kylo beat her at a point where she can only be stronger in the force than she was previously? Somehow I doubt it. So you've basically got a whole trilogy where the central hero wins again and again. It goes against convention.

And how is Kylo gonna improve at all as well? He just killed his only teacher. The one who was gonna complete his training. Not very smart to kill your master so early on in the game before you've learned/mastered all that he has to teach. I'm sure Vader had plenty of opportunites to take out good ol Palps in the 30 years as his apprentice. But Anakin was too smart. Biding his time.

Rey will read some books and become the greatest Jedi of all time.

 

[xipotec]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Anakin, at age 9. relied on his instinct and intuition. An established natural force ability as seen with Obi-Wan's quick lesson to Luke on the Falcon on wearing the helmet with the blast shield down so he couldn't see which enabled him to deflect the bolts from the little droid. And the line "your eye's can deceive you, don't trust them". Same way Luke was able to bullseye Womprats in his T16 and shoot the exhaust port on the Death Star in the X-Wing without the aid of his nav computer. But he was already "the best bush pilot in the outer rim" according to Biggs. He was 19, so I assume he was flying for quite some time already.

And yes, while Anakins heroics in the ship were a bit much, he was on auto pilot that brought him into space to the battle. Plus he had R2 to help out. Still a little far fetched, but more thought out than anything in TLJ. And then little Ani trained for 10 years at the Jedi temple to learn how to manipulate all the forces other abilities. From 100's of the Jedi's best trained masters. Neither Anakin or Luke were levitating rocks, force communicating, resisting mind probes form someone with raw power, using a lightsaber like a trained master until after being taught. And even then it was years of practice not after a few days. Rey took on Kylo like it was nothing, Luke got his ass handed to him by Vader. Yeah yeah, Kylo was injured by Chewies amazing bowcaster that Han had never picked up or fired in their 30+ year relationship. At least JJ used juxtaposition to make it known Keylo was in pain. From Rian we got a rebel tasting the ground to let us know it was salt.

I get you, I just don’t see that great a difference between the two as you do.

I chalk it up to Rey knowing what the Force legends say can be done, her age and experiences making her more able to tap into the force directly over a 9 year Old who literally has no idea what the force is....

I would love to see something like Rey and Kylo die in the last film....

And somehow that disrupts the force so much is creates a power vacuum culminating in another golden age of “average” people becoming force users....

Sort of like Rey and Kylo sucked up all the Force in themselves and their deaths bring about a more wide distribution of power to others....



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[Prime Clone]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Rey had survived as a scavenger from a young age. She was already expert in hand-to-hand combat (as witnessed at Nima Outpost). Her awakening Force powers simply augmented those existing skills.

 

[xipotec]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

And how is Kylo gonna improve at all as well? He just killed his only teacher. The one who was gonna complete his training. Not very smart to kill your master so early on in the game before you've learned/mastered all that he has to teach. I'm sure Vader had plenty of opportunites to take out good ol Palps in the 30 years as his apprentice. But Anakin was too smart. Biding his time.

Rey will read some books and become the greatest Jedi of all time.

If you read the Vader comics it details a bit about Anakin trying to do just that......kill Palps....

He’s not good enough to get it done.


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[loki2371]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I get you, I just don’t see that great a difference between the two as you do.

I chalk it up to Rey knowing what the Force legends say can be done, her age and experiences making her more able to tap into the force directly over a 9 year Old who literally has no idea what the force is....

I would love to see something like Rey and Kylo die in the last film....

And somehow that disrupts the force so much is creates a power vacuum culminating in another golden age of “average” people becoming force users....

Sort of like Rey and Kylo sucked up all the Force in themselves and their deaths bring about a more wide distribution of power to others....



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I actually really liked Rey in TFA. I thought she was the best part of the movie. JJ did a good job introducing her and adding all the mystery as to who she was and why she could do what she could. Johnson just ruined all that with his nonsense.... Because of TLJ I can't stand any of the characters nor bring myself to care about TFA anymore. I can't see how JJ can possibly undo any of the harm caused by Johnson in EP9. More likely just more head swaying in disgust.

If you read the Vader comics it details a bit about Anakin trying to do just that......kill Palps....

He’s not good enough to get it done.


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I have digital files of all the Disney SW canon comics & Novels, but can't seem to find the desire to read them. I've read a few novels and they were far better than TLJ. Disney is gonna eventually back themselves into a corner and then declare "nothing is canon but the movies, Clone Wars & Rebels cartoons". So don't want to get too vested in these side stories. Johnson & the so called "SW story group" didn't seem to care.

 

[Rorywan]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Even with that little get out of jail card it was still a stupid thing to do having the main hero personally defeat the main villain in the first movie. They should have written a way around it. Because here comes the third and final movie, where it appears Kylo is to be Rey's sole adversary - and it's already 1-0 to Rey, 2-0 if you include the way she mentally overpowered him in that earlier TFA scene. What are they gonna do now? Have Kylo beat her at a point where she can only be stronger in the force than she was previously? Somehow I doubt it. So you've basically got a whole trilogy where the central hero wins again and again. It goes against the convention of these films.

Imagine if Luke beat Vader in Empire. Then just beat him again in Jedi. Or if Anakin beat Dooku in AOTC, and then again in ROTS. Would have sucked....ok AOTC and ROTS sucked anyway but you get the point. The threat of the villain has to be maintained until his ultimate defeat.

This is where the Mary Sue stuff comes from, this is why people, including a feminist woman on this forum, say she has no arc, no journey. And this retcon explanation of Matrix-style force downloading when she touched the lightsaber or whatever arguably makes it worse, not better, because it just makes everything easy for her. A sort of soft bigotry of low expectations thing - far from what they think they're doing with the character.

Surprisingly good post from A-Dev all things considered.