Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Where is vault boy and his 25+ minute videos gone to?

Dude that avatar is hideous, i wish there was a way i could block avatars lol

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

It's like she's actually uttering the challenge ''Whatcha gonna do about it?''

 

[xipotec]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

It's based on EVERYTHING that has ever been written about Star Wars be it cannon or the extended universe... Lets be the matrix and just download the fighting skills you want and poof your an expert.... hell why stop there lets give Jedi's power to think someone out of existence.... I think Sith's should have the force power to shoot nukes out of their ass... Adding force powers that open a can of worms is a mistake, Lucas made it giving Jedi the power to run like the flash, notice he abandoned it in all the following movies and animated shows because it caused more problems story wise as to how come the Jedi don't run around like the flash all the time, a single Jedi could take out 100's of enemies in a few seconds..

Actually no.....

Rebels and PT shows many episodes with Jedi able to communicate with animals and ask them to help them...

Thats never been seen. Its not the mind trick, its clearly a symbiotic relationship. Which would have been helpful all throughout the trilogy.

No one freaked out with that, even though its never been seen or done in OT.

I mean , Rancor, Wampa, all non issues .....

I have no issues with new powers , especially if its shown that they are person specific as in Rebels. New is not a bad thing, its just new. To think we learned everything about the Force in 6!films, is crazy. And as far as all the other media available its chock full of new powers and force users of different levels....



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Bravomite]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Actually no.....

Rebels and PT shows many episodes with Jedi able to communicate with animals and ask them to help them...

Thats never been seen. Its not the mind trick, its clearly a symbiotic relationship. Which would have been helpful all throughout the trilogy.

No one freaked out with that, even though its never been seen or done in OT.

I mean , Rancor, Wampa, all non issues .....

I have no issues with new powers , especially if its shown that they are person specific as in Rebels. New is not a bad thing, its just new. To think we learned everything about the Force in 6!films, is crazy. And as far as all the other media available its chock full of new powers and force users of different levels....



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

The force power to communicate with animals was shown in AOTC (Anakin used it in the arena) and about the same time it was also used in a novel (possibly Cloak of Deception and/or Rogue Planet).

I don't think anyone has a problem with new force powers (I enjoy them) as long as they seem to fit in with the established universe and don't seem overpowered and ridiculous. For instance the once canon force awakens game had one such moment when force pull was turned up to 11 and Vader's apprentice literally tore a star destroyer out of the sky. Force pull fine, force pull and implode star destroyer seems too much. Force telepathy interrogate fine, force telepathy download someone's entire training too much. At least that's my take on it.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

One Force User spends years of training and practice to become proficient in the Force. Another poor Force user comes along and just downloads all the first user's knowledge for free. Jedi Socialism!

Why did Yoda need to train anyone? Just have all the younglings gather round him and download his skills. Instant army of Jedi Masters.

If they want to make Rey like Rogue from X-Men where her main shtick is absorbing the abilities of others then fine but they sure as heck better make sure it's spelled out that she's special and unique and that it isn't something anyone can do.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I concur with Bravomite. Sequel escalation going too far, as so often.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I thought that Kylo Ren's "new" powers in TFA were showcased with the proper moderation. As far as I know everyone pretty much liked his freezing the laser in midair and putting Rey to sleep. It's just Rey herself that's been the problematic one.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

The force power to communicate with animals was shown in AOTC (Anakin used it in the arena) and about the same time it was also used in a novel (possibly Cloak of Deception and/or Rogue Planet).

I don't think anyone has a problem with new force powers (I enjoy them) as long as they seem to fit in with the established universe and don't seem overpowered and ridiculous. For instance the once canon force awakens game had one such moment when force pull was turned up to 11 and Vader's apprentice literally tore a star destroyer out of the sky. Force pull fine, force pull and implode star destroyer seems too much. Force telepathy interrogate fine, force telepathy download someone's entire training too much. At least that's my take on it.

Umm ehh umm excuse me Mr. Bravomite sir....

Ummm ehhh

Spoiler

it’s rumored that the Luke scene filmed last week was of him in a young Luke flashback ripping apart and pulling down a star destroyer on Jakku. Fans demanded a super powerful Luke after TLJ and JJ/Disney will be addressing every complaint.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

One Force User spends years of training and practice to become proficient in the Force. Another poor Force user comes along and just downloads all the first user's knowledge for free. Jedi Socialism!

Why did Yoda need to train anyone? Just have all the younglings gather round him and download his skills. Instant army of Jedi Masters.

If they want to make Rey like Rogue from X-Men where her main shtick is absorbing the abilities of others then fine but they sure as heck better make sure it's spelled out that she's special and unique and that it isn't something anyone can do.

I think TLJ can serve to limit the problems from a TFA Rey "downloading" scenario by tying her directly with Kylo. In other words, if she was the light who rose to balance Kylo's darkness, then that unique bond (forged by the Force itself) could serve to explain unique interactions between the two characters that wouldn't be possible between any two other Force-users/Jedi/Padawans.

As for Force abilities in general, and their evolution, I've listed the ones that I can recall as they've been introduced chronologically. I'm probably missing some, especially with the prequels that I try hard to forget. But every movie has added at least one new one. ROTJ was probably the most restrained (unless, again, I'm forgetting something there too).

ANH

• Force choke (Vader on DS)
• Jedi mind trick (Kenobi w/ sandtroopers)
• anticipation reflex (Luke w/ training orb)
• clairvoyance (Kenobi sensing Alderaan tragedy)
• noise projection (Kenobi w/ dragon call & stormtroopers on DS)
• Force-ghost telepathy (Kenobi to Luke)
• telekenesis maybe? (Luke's DS killshot)

ESB

• telekenesis for sure (Luke w/ lightsaber on Hoth)
• Force-ghost projection (Kenobi)
• remote viewing (Yoda having long "watched" Luke on Tatooine)
• blaster/energy deflection (Vader at dinner on Bespin)
• pre-cognition (Luke seeing future)
• levitation (Luke from carbon chamber)
• family telepathy (Vader w/ Luke & Luke w/ Leia)

ROTJ

• Force lightning (Palpatine)

TPM

• Force sprint (Qui-Gon & Kenobi)
• ESP (Anakin seeing images when tested by the Council - "untrained")

AOTC

• danger alert ??? (Anakin & Kenobi sensing Padme's assassination attempt)
• animal mind control (Anakin on Geonosis)
• Force-lightning redirection (Yoda w/ Dooku)

ROTS

• cheating death/creating life (Plagueis)

TFA

• stasis (Kylo with the blaster bolt on Jaaku and Rey on Takodana)
• mind knockout (Kylo on Rey)
• mind probe (Kylo w/ Rey)
• Force "download" ??? (Rey from Kylo)

TLJ

• whatever the hell Leia did to survive a major concussive blast and being sucked into space (Force cocoon???)
• Force-user projection (Snoke projecting Kylo & Rey - only seen by one another, then by Luke toward the end)
• self/astral projection (Luke on Crait - seen by everyone)

The only two abilities that I object to on their own are the Plagueis nonsense in ROTS and the inexplicable Leia super-survival in TLJ. Cheating death is a tough ability for me to be a fan of since it also cheats drama, suspense, and logic from a storytelling point of view.

Then there are the abilities that cause the audience to ask why those aren't being employed in other situations. For instance, why the Jedi wouldn't just Force-sprint to better effect to cover more ground (mentioned a few posts ago). Or, why wouldn't Kylo just keep his opponents in stasis during LS duels (or put them to sleep in close-quarters confrontations). So, it'd probably be best to use the "less is more" approach to expanding Force powers; but I can understand the temptation to add new stuff to the mythology.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Always good analytical posts from you ajp4mgs.....by the way has anyone used the Solo ''you're gonna need a nickname'' quote on you yet?

 

[ajp4mgs]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Many here would dispute the characterization of my posts as "good," but I greatly appreciate it coming from one of my favorites here. Thanks, a-dev.

As for the nickname . . . I never expected to post nearly this frequently when I signed up. But ajp are my initials, so cutting out the rest works fine for me.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Obi-Wan and Qui-Gone run really fast down a hallway.

Cut to Luke in ROTJ running like a soccer mom in the Rancor pit lol

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I think TLJ can serve to limit the problems from a TFA Rey "downloading" scenario by tying her directly with Kylo. In other words, if she was the light who rose to balance Kylo's darkness, then that unique bond (forged by the Force itself) could serve to explain unique interactions between the two characters that wouldn't be possible between any two other Force-users/Jedi/Padawans.

I'd accept that!

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Many here would dispute the characterization of my posts as "good," but I greatly appreciate it coming from one of my favorites here. Thanks, a-dev.

As for the nickname . . . I never expected to post nearly this frequently when I signed up. But ajp are my initials, so cutting out the rest works fine for me.

ajp works for me,
(like the jye)

And thanks for what you said

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

@agp4mgs good post. However, there is no force ability called noise projection , and to be fair with rots, they never showed palpatine cheat death or create life, sideous only mentioned the ability because he knew anakin would do anything to save padma after the loss of his mother. He used that story to turn anakin, once he turned here is their exchange

Anakin Skywalker: I will do whatever you ask. Just help me save Padme's life. I can't live without her. If she dies, I don't know what I will do.

Darth Sidious: To cheat death is a power only one has achieved through centuries of the study of the Force. But if we work together, I know we can discover the secret to eternal life.

Palpatine could never perform this feat and based on his own words he says if we work together i know we can discover the secret to eternal life, notice how he excluded padme here or resurrecting saving anyone else, it was only for him, cause thats what palpatine wanted. He went from telling anakin that this power can be learned but not from a jedi, too if we work together maybe we can figure it out- he didnt obviously know **** and was hoping anakin, the chosen one, could unlock such a power. For all we know he made it all up to seduce anakin to begin with. To my knowlege nothing in the new canon has gone into much detail about Darth Plagueis, or his powers to confirm any of the story he told anakin in that trippy room. In either case, there is a big difference between being able to prevent others from dying or revive/save them from certain death then it is to have eternal life for oneself.

 

[xipotec]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I think TLJ can serve to limit the problems from a TFA Rey "downloading" scenario by tying her directly with Kylo. In other words, if she was the light who rose to balance Kylo's darkness, then that unique bond (forged by the Force itself) could serve to explain unique interactions between the two characters that wouldn't be possible between any two other Force-users/Jedi/Padawans.

As for Force abilities in general, and their evolution, I've listed the ones that I can recall as they've been introduced chronologically. I'm probably missing some, especially with the prequels that I try hard to forget. But every movie has added at least one new one. ROTJ was probably the most restrained (unless, again, I'm forgetting something there too).

ANH

• Force choke (Vader on DS)
• Jedi mind trick (Kenobi w/ sandtroopers)
• anticipation reflex (Luke w/ training orb)
• clairvoyance (Kenobi sensing Alderaan tragedy)
• noise projection (Kenobi w/ dragon call & stormtroopers on DS)
• Force-ghost telepathy (Kenobi to Luke)
• telekenesis maybe? (Luke's DS killshot)

ESB

• telekenesis for sure (Luke w/ lightsaber on Hoth)
• Force-ghost projection (Kenobi)
• remote viewing (Yoda having long "watched" Luke on Tatooine)
• blaster/energy deflection (Vader at dinner on Bespin)
• pre-cognition (Luke seeing future)
• levitation (Luke from carbon chamber)
• family telepathy (Vader w/ Luke & Luke w/ Leia)

ROTJ

• Force lightning (Palpatine)

TPM

• Force sprint (Qui-Gon & Kenobi)
• ESP (Anakin seeing images when tested by the Council - "untrained")

AOTC

• danger alert ??? (Anakin & Kenobi sensing Padme's assassination attempt)
• animal mind control (Anakin on Geonosis)
• Force-lightning redirection (Yoda w/ Dooku)

ROTS

• cheating death/creating life (Plagueis)

TFA

• stasis (Kylo with the blaster bolt on Jaaku and Rey on Takodana)
• mind knockout (Kylo on Rey)
• mind probe (Kylo w/ Rey)
• Force "download" ??? (Rey from Kylo)

TLJ

• whatever the hell Leia did to survive a major concussive blast and being sucked into space (Force cocoon???)
• Force-user projection (Snoke projecting Kylo & Rey - only seen by one another, then by Luke toward the end)
• self/astral projection (Luke on Crait - seen by everyone)

The only two abilities that I object to on their own are the Plagueis nonsense in ROTS and the inexplicable Leia super-survival in TLJ. Cheating death is a tough ability for me to be a fan of since it also cheats drama, suspense, and logic from a storytelling point of view.

Then there are the abilities that cause the audience to ask why those aren't being employed in other situations. For instance, why the Jedi wouldn't just Force-sprint to better effect to cover more ground (mentioned a few posts ago). Or, why wouldn't Kylo just keep his opponents in stasis during LS duels (or put them to sleep in close-quarters confrontations). So, it'd probably be best to use the "less is more" approach to expanding Force powers; but I can understand the temptation to add new stuff to the mythology.

Excellent post...


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I thought that Kylo Ren's "new" powers in TFA were showcased with the proper moderation. As far as I know everyone pretty much liked his freezing the laser in midair and putting Rey to sleep. It's just Rey herself that's been the problematic one.

I even gave all the Rey stuff a pass because there was so much seemingly meaningful mystery about her.

I didn’t know we were headed for Force downloads and literal smoke and mirrors.

 

[xipotec]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

just curious.....where did this force download idea come from? It that even official?

 

[ajp4mgs]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

However, there is no force ability called noise projection

Fair enough. I just have a hard time accepting that Kenobi could produce a "Krayt dragon" noise that loud without employing some kind of Force-powered amplification. I don't know what else to call it.

and to be fair with rots, they never showed palpatine cheat death or create life, sideous only mentioned the ability because he knew anakin would do anything to save padma after the loss of his mother.

I just assume that Palpatine was being factual and honest about Plagueis and what he'd learned to do. The inference from Palpatine telling the story of "Plagueis the Wise" - and including the part about being killed by his apprentice - is that Palps was giving a fully factual version of events, but just omitting his own role as the apprentice. But you're right, we don't know for sure what Plagueis could (or couldn't) actually do.

I even gave all the Rey stuff a pass because there was so much seemingly meaningful mystery about her.

I didn’t know we were headed for Force downloads and literal smoke and mirrors.

I think a lot of fans gave the Rey stuff in TFA a pass for the same reason. The problem is that no meaningful mystery reveal would have made any sense of her proficiency with Force abilities in the context of the rest of the saga. I think that's the reason for the "downloading" explanation. I'll explain:

Anakin Skywalker was a creation of the Force itself. You can't get much more mystical or powerful than that. But even Anakin didn't just instinctively master Jedi abilities like the mind trick, telekinesis, and lightsaber dueling. Rey wasn't just doing all of that at a high level in TFA, but doing it seemingly instinctively. She could easily be perceived as more skilled than Anakin . . . who the Force gave birth to!

Making her a Skywalker (or Kenobi, or whatever) wouldn't help make any sense of her skill mastery. It's not just that she used telekinesis to pull a lightsaber; it's that she pulled a lighstaber away from a trained and powerful Force-user (Kylo). It's not just that she can hold her own with a lightsaber; it's that she defeated a trained and powerful Force-user (who had just finished hurling her several meters at high speed into a tree!). And then there's the mind trick on the Stormtrooper . . . yikes!

Giving her a special family lineage (or any special origin story) still wouldn't line up her TFA Force mastery with any previous SW context. So, she needed something different as a rationale. The "downloading" provides that. But as an explanation, it still needs a unique foundational underpinning - and I think TLJ supplied one by making her and Kylo inextricably (and very uniquely) linked through the Force. She's the yin to his yang (or vice versa) . . . unless JJ changes it all and we go back to having no basis whatsoever for her unprecedented Force proficiency.

JJ's "mystery boxes" can deflect incoherency, but only for a while. They only last until eventual reveals get scrutinized using pre-established context. So, it's a storytelling equivalent of throwing **** against the wall to see what sticks . . . but eventually someone has to clean up the mess.

just curious.....where did this force download idea come from? It that even official?

Not sure if it's "official," and also not sure if this is where it started, but the novelization of TLJ mentions it. I took a photo of the relevant page and underlined the key section below.

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I would have accepted Rey being Luke’s daughter, trained from infancy, but hidden and somehow memory- wiped to protect her from murderous Kylo.

And while I know JJ is guilty of setting up mysteries without regard for conclusions, I don’t think it’s the case here. We’ll never know for sure but Simon Pegg commented that he had spoken to JJ about plans for Snoke that are apparently dashed by TLJ.

The idea that Luke’s saber communicates with Rey, Kylo communing with Anakin’s spirit - both of those huge threads are dropped in Johnson’s screenplay and not effectively replaced with anything of continued significance IMO. Just “moments” that are effective in the short term but ultimately unimportant or detrimental to the trilogy.