Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Khev]

"I'll have two subverted expectations with a manbaby and a twist please," lol.

 

[rushmore223]

[emoji38] [emoji38]

"I'll have two subverted expectations with a manbaby and a twist please," lol.

[emoji38]

It's a very salty drink, made from the tears of fans.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[jye4ever]

 

[Wor-Gar]

[emoji38]

It's a very salty drink...

That's not where I thought you were going with that at all.

 

[rushmore223]

That's not where I thought you were going with that at all.

Hence the clarification. [emoji38]

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[TaliBane]

I get that, Khev; but what I'm saying is that the measure of goodwill toward the characters and franchise could already be interpreted from the box office of RO and the opening weekend of TLJ.

It's not like MCU's 22-film buildup. There were always only *3* films in the ST. If fans were so super stoked about the characters and franchise following TFA to eventually turn TROS into a $3 billion movie, it would've been reflected in TLJ's opening weekend. It's not like fans would suddenly be disinterested in seeing the follow-up to a film they were super pumped about, and only be excited to go back to the theaters for the conclusion. There's only ONE movie in between.

Some fans came away from TFA (well before the TLJ backlash and war with the fanbase) complaining about Rey being a Mary Sue, Kylo being a whiner, and the whole plot being a lazy rehash of ANH. What I'm getting at is that there's no evidence whatsoever that TROS was ever going to be on a trajectory for anything approaching $3 billion. We know this from the RO box office (franchise goodwill), and from the opening weekend take for TLJ (character enthusiasm).

The TLJ opening weekend was largely attributable to the goodwill toward TFA, but yeah - if TROS cleans up to the tune of $2B plus, some of it will be attributable to TLJ. It's true its a bit easier to get to $2B in 2019 than it was in 2015, but it's still a staggering milestone.

It's really hard to get BO matters in perspective because SW is such a powerful brand that you can make something really pretty crappy and yet the brand still drives interest (it really isn't possible for a SW trilogy film to earn less than $1B adjusted globally - none have,) especially in this hyper-branded era we are in where AEG can make what it does.

It's going to be fascinating to see the new trilogy in a few years that doesn't connect to Skywalkers, Vader-esques, TIEs, death stars and stormtroopers. I wonder if you remove all of that and still call it SW how it will do. It turns out that SW seems to be so much about nostalgia/call-backs.

On a side note people were talking about re shoots earlier, like what Gilroy went through and the directors of Han Solo spin off went through, I wish there had been that kind of scrutiny for the prequel trilogy.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Within a decade of Lucas' passing the PT will be remade, even if it's just TPM.

Wouldn't that be good for the person who made the executive decision to make these changes that resulted in two good movies? I feel like had Last Jedi been a much better movie, than this whole trilogy would have been perfectly acceptable. I actually enjoyed TFA and then TLJ did a 180 and fundamentally changed everything about the story and possibly the franchise.

Not sure that's how exec rankings work - "yeah, sure I had to have the movie shot twice and it cost you a few hundred million more to do so, but look how it turned out!" That works for Jim Cameron but I'm not sure it works for the desk jockeys and bean counters.

 

[xipotec]

Its going to be very interesting if JJ and Kk and the crew pull off a ESB like film....lets pretend they do....hell lets say the pull off a RO level film.

What then? Would the disgruntled fans actually admit it? Or would they be so entrenched with their beliefs of the evil Disney cabal that they would reject it outright, like a alcoholic rejecting a donor liver?

Would they find every reason to hate it , even if the majority of movie goers loved it?

Is there any chance, that the final episode of the ST could tie up the story in a meaningful way that would satisfy the seriously disgruntled fans?

I doubt it. Because what they wanted, their childhood idols, being the main heroes when they are in there 70’s was never a realistic probability.





Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[TaliBane]

Its going to be very interesting if JJ and Kk and the crew pull off a ESB like film....lets pretend they do....hell lets say the pull off a RO level film.

What then? Would the disgruntled fans actually admit it? Or would they be so entrenched with their beliefs of the evil Disney cabal that they would reject it outright, like a alcoholic rejecting a donor liver?

Would they find every reason to hate it , even if the majority of movie goers loved it?

Is there any chance, that the final episode of the ST could tie up the story in a meaningful way that would satisfy the seriously disgruntled fans?

I doubt it. Because what they wanted, their childhood idols, being the main heroes when they are in there 70’s was never a realistic probability.





Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

Admit what exactly?

And nobody ever said the ST should have been just the main heroes in their 70's. That's just silly. For me, as I've said many times, had they done a "Logan"-style movie with Hamill as a grizzled, badass Jedi co-lead along with his (young star) padawan and with Han as a badass crimelord - for the whole trilogy (ie not line up OT heroes and kill them off movie by movie) - it could have been cool.

 

[xipotec]

Admit what exactly?

And nobody ever said the ST should have been just the main heroes in their 70's. That's just silly. For me, as I've said many times, had they done a "Logan"-style movie with Hamill as a grizzled, badass Jedi co-lead along with his (young star) padawan and with Han as a badass crimelord - for the whole trilogy (ie not line up OT heroes and kill them off movie by movie) - it could have been cool.

Admit the last film was good and solved most of the conundrums they had from the first two. (Assuming is was and did)

Personally , I think I know whats going to happen, having watched the ST many times......

Your story idea was pretty cool BTW.

Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Khev]

View attachment 453661

 

[Khev]

Your story idea was pretty cool BTW.

I agree. The Logan route could have been extremely cool.

 

[TaliBane]

Admit the last film was good and solved most of the conundrums they had from the first two. (Assuming is was and did)

Personally , I think I know whats going to happen, having watched the ST many times......

Your story idea was pretty cool BTW.

Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

Oh, okay - yeah. TROS is certainly going to be an interesting thing. Seeing how they wrap up franchises ("for now") in a satisfying way is always kind of fascinating.

I agree. The Logan route could have been extremely cool.

Hamill is no Jackman but he really did very well in TLJ - so surprising in a way (and story and behavior issues aside you gotta give RJ credit for drawing out that performance.) It made me want to see a lot more. And seeing Han with some edge, a Han who went down the wrong road in a major way, even Chewy allied against him, would have been cool. Whether Ford would have been up for it is another story.

Maybe some fan will do a screenplay for "what could have been" the way there were a few Indy fan scripts drifting around on the internet before KOTCS (all of which were probably better than KOTCS.)

 

[ajp4mgs]

The TLJ opening weekend was largely attributable to the goodwill toward TFA, but yeah - if TROS cleans up to the tune of $2B plus, some of it will be attributable to TLJ. It's true its a bit easier to get to $2B in 2019 than it was in 2015, but it's still a staggering milestone.

It's really hard to get BO matters in perspective because SW is such a powerful brand that you can make something really pretty crappy and yet the brand still drives interest (it really isn't possible for a SW trilogy film to earn less than $1B adjusted globally - none have,) especially in this hyper-branded era we are in where AEG can make what it does.

Yeah, I agree that $1 billion global box office is a fair minimum for a SW "Episode" movie. Anything below that would be evidence of a serious failure somewhere along the way. Like you pointed out, even AOTC crossed that (inflation adjusted) threshold. But $2 billion should be considered an *unqualified* success. The way I see it, TROS can only reach that number with a huge opening weekend; and a huge opening weekend can't happen if TLJ killed interest in the ST story. A lot has been said and written about the ultimate impact of that film on the rest of the franchise, but TROS opening weekend will settle it one way or another.

The opening weekend box office for any planned SW trilogy speaks volumes. For the first film, it shows how curious/open people are to seeing what the story will be like. For the second film, it shows how much the previous film kept the audience wanting more. And for the third film, the opening weekend shows what impact the middle film had on keeping enough people curious to want to see how it all ends.

Overall, if TROS can't match or exceed the TLJ revenue, then TLJ failed - and RJ and KK (and TLJ fans like me) will have to own that. Plain and simple. On the other hand, neither of the previous two trilogies had a sequel where the box office came anywhere near that of the opening film. So, if TROS gets to $2 billion, anyone still clinging to the "TLJ killed the ST" narrative would have to be an *****.

It's going to be fascinating to see the new trilogy in a few years that doesn't connect to Skywalkers, Vader-esques, TIEs, death stars and stormtroopers. I wonder if you remove all of that and still call it SW how it will do. It turns out that SW seems to be so much about nostalgia/call-backs.

For sure! I'm probably more intrigued by audience reaction for that new trilogy than I am by whatever story it will tell. It's going to say a lot about the viability of the franchise outside of the Skywalker Saga and connections to the OT.

 

[jye4ever]

PT, DIRECTED BY GOD HIMSELF, had THREE CONSECUTIVE piss poor SW movies.....consecutive.....directed and written by GL!

Sure the ST has stumbled but right from the gate and not from TLJ but for any PT lover to have the audacity coming on here tearing the ST apart you got some nerve especially with AOTC being considered a true abomination of cinema, it’s a downright comedy.

PT = 6 embarrassing years worth of SW!

Disney owned SW = In just 4 years 2 ok movies (TFA-TLJ), 1 good movie (Solo) and 1 great movie (RO)!

Yeah exactly i’ll take the latter!

And yes I hated broom boy and I cringed with space Leia and my grandmother drives faster than that space chase and Ackbar was treated like Hulk lol

 

[rushmore223]

PT, DIRECTED GOD HIMSELF, had THREE CONSECUTIVE piss poor SW movies.....consecutive.....directed and written by GL!

Sure the ST has stumbled but right from the gate and not from TLJ but for any PT lover to have the audacity coming on here tearing the ST apart you got some nerve especially with AOTC being considered a true abomination of cinema, it’s a downright comedy.

PT = 6 embarrassing years worth of SW!

Disney owned SW = In just 4 years 2 ok movies (TFA-TLJ), 1 good movie (Solo) and 1 great movie (RO)!

Yeah exactly i’ll take the latter!

And yes I hated broom boy and I cringed with space Leia and my grandmother drives faster than that space chase and Ackbar was treated like Hulk lol

Absolutely! ^^^^^^

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[ironwez20]

“2 ok movies” lol

 

[abake]

PT, DIRECTED BY GOD HIMSELF, had THREE CONSECUTIVE piss poor SW movies.....consecutive.....directed and written by GL!

Sure the ST has stumbled but right from the gate and not from TLJ but for any PT lover to have the audacity coming on here tearing the ST apart you got some nerve especially with AOTC being considered a true abomination of cinema, it’s a downright comedy.

PT = 6 embarrassing years worth of SW!

Disney owned SW = In just 4 years 2 ok movies (TFA-TLJ), 1 good movie (Solo) and 1 great movie (RO)!

Yeah exactly i’ll take the latter!

And yes I hated broom boy and I cringed with space Leia and my grandmother drives faster than that space chase and Ackbar was treated like Hulk lol

For me the thing is that despite its flaws (some dodgy use of CGI, some poor dialogue and acting, etc), the prequels have great stories, they built a larger universe, had some fantastic designs, some of the best music from the entire series, and even great actors delivering good to great performances. And, whether they fulfilled your expectations or not, they had a reason to be: to tell the story of Anakin's fall and the rise of the Empire. Which they did.

And for me the emphasis is on Great Stories. I don't think the sequels have told a great story so far.
The way Palpatine manipulates the entire senate and the Jedi is told in a believable and intellignet way. Anakin's fall is credible (I know there's a lot of debate here, but just look at it objectively: slave kid who is separated from his mother, is shown to be insecure and not in control of his emotions, Jedi Order is shown to be distant and even shows animosity towards him, pursues a forbidden love, loses mother again... the character arch is there, maybe it could've been written or acted better, but it's there). The Jedi's destruction is credible. Things make sense.

So far, the sequels haven't shown me the same type of interesting stories with interesting character development, and to boot, they don't follow up to the original trilogy with a story worth telling (so far, maybe EpIX fixes everything).

As for Rogue One and Solo, I really don't count them, because they are not about the Skywalker Saga (and I love RO, Solo is ok).

 

[jye4ever]

“2 ok movies” lol

Don’t make me change them to good movies lol

At least they’re not comedies like AOT....all of the PT!

 

[xipotec]

Yeah, I agree that $1 billion global box office is a fair minimum for a SW "Episode" movie. Anything below that would be evidence of a serious failure somewhere along the way. Like you pointed out, even AOTC crossed that (inflation adjusted) threshold. But $2 billion should be considered an *unqualified* success. The way I see it, TROS can only reach that number with a huge opening weekend; and a huge opening weekend can't happen if TLJ killed interest in the ST story. A lot has been said and written about the ultimate impact of that film on the rest of the franchise, but TROS opening weekend will settle it one way or another.

The opening weekend box office for any planned SW trilogy speaks volumes. For the first film, it shows how curious/open people are to seeing what the story will be like. For the second film, it shows how much the previous film kept the audience wanting more. And for the third film, the opening weekend shows what impact the middle film had on keeping enough people curious to want to see how it all ends.

Overall, if TROS can't match or exceed the TLJ revenue, then TLJ failed - and RJ and KK (and TLJ fans like me) will have to own that. Plain and simple. On the other hand, neither of the previous two trilogies had a sequel where the box office came anywhere near that of the opening film. So, if TROS gets to $2 billion, anyone still clinging to the "TLJ killed the ST" narrative would have to be an *****.



For sure! I'm probably more intrigued by audience reaction for that new trilogy than I am by whatever story it will tell. It's going to say a lot about the viability of the franchise outside of the Skywalker Saga and connections to the OT.

Well a very interesting thing happened at my EG premier.....at movie tavern....people were eating and ordering and such, when the Episode IX trailer stared the place went silent.....

And people really watched the trailer. No laughing or gaffing after either...sure seemed like a very interested audience. And that was an EG primed audience.



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[jye4ever]

IX trailer also got claps in my EG viewings.

That Hobbs and something movie got groans though I really think people are getting bored with the Rock

Hey if it can happen to Arnold, Stallone and Willis it can happen to Dwayne!