Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Obi was an Ahole.....pure and simple....

Screwed up training Anakin, who turns into Vader wipes out the Jedi.

Hides his kids to set them up to kill their father....

Manipulated and lies to the kid about his father....

Hides kids sister from him as a back up for killing their father.

Literally kills himself to get the kid angry enough to kill his father....

What so great about Obi again???

Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

He also ruined the PT by killing the only cool villain, Darth Maul. He also could have saved or killed Anakin and put him out of his misery, but instead he stood there watching him burn slowly.

Why does a ghost need to sit anyway?

He sat like a tired old man too.

 

[TaliBane]

Obi was an Ahole.....pure and simple....

Screwed up training Anakin, who turns into Vader wipes out the Jedi.

Hides his kids to set them up to kill their father....

Manipulated and lies to the kid about his father....

Hides kids sister from him as a back up for killing their father.

Literally kills himself to get the kid angry enough to kill his father....

What so great about Obi again???




Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

I spent the whole PT convinced Palpatine’s disfigured face was his true appearance and he was using a Sith mind trick to appear normal as the Senator/Chancellor.

I was a little disappointed at the actual explanation for his disfigurement.

What was the explanation? I honestly don't remember.

 

[jye4ever]

SW 77 and ESB for me represented a cinematic idea that didn’t follow strict rules it was more Flash Gordon instead of Star Trek so if a ghost sat down like an old man in ROTJ then so be it.

Obi Wan ghost sitting down in the first place and like an old man at that humanized the force it added a layer of warmth to put Luke at ease and it actually contradicts Yoda’s explanation of the force if you think about it.

Ghost Obi Wan acted as if the “crude matter” actually did matter!

It normalized the force for Luke to better interact with it.

Who knows maybe the big reveal in IX will be that they’re not ghosts in the traditional sense which again is SW bucking the rules and being its own thing.


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[xipotec]

Well hello there.

Yeah I laughed out loud at work at this...


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Khev]

Why wouldn't ghost Ben be able to sit down? That's hardly a new concept for ghosts in countless stories and films.

 

[jye4ever]

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[Wor-Gar]

I was a little disappointed at the actual explanation ....

Sums up much of the experience of the PT.

 

[Wor-Gar]

He sat like a tired old man too.

So that's Heaven? People still exhausted. Anakin, the evil one, gets a new young body while Ben remains in his failing one... forever?

 

[Otomofan]

Well....there are no Force Ghosts.

It's just the midichlorians in Luke's bloodstream communicating with him in a way that he can process easily.

Like when he hears Obi Wan in the Death Star trench....that was just midichlorians telling him to trust his instincts.

It's like the machine elves you see when you take DMT.....are they really there? Are they really beings from another dimension that you can only communicate with when the portal is opened by the drug? Or....are you just plain tripping?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Well....there are no Force Ghosts.

It's just the midichlorians in Luke's bloodstream communicating with him in a way that he can process easily.

Like when he hears Obi Wan in the Death Star trench....that was just midichlorians telling him to trust his instincts.

It's like the machine elves you see when you take DMT.....are they really there? Are they really beings from another dimension that you can only communicate with when the portal is opened by the drug? Or....are you just plain tripping?

Luke must look like a lunatic talking to himself.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Force ghosts aren't just "regular" ghosts/spirits. The Force ghost, as Lucas himself went on to define it, is the result of a learned skill. Jedi don't just die and automatically get a ghost form simply because they were "good people."

A Force ghost is like an extension of the living being, still maintaining a definite link to the physical world. The visual representation of that has existed since 1977. When Kenobi gave himself to the Force and disappeared, he apparently took his boots and belt (since Vader stepped on just a robe and a lightsaber). When Yoda "died," his clothes and necklace disappeared with him too. Same with Luke and his clothes, and his robotic hand.

All the way back to ANH, Kenobi said that the Jedi existed for a thousand generations. That would be around 25,000 years of Jedi. Imagine if all of them automatically got to have Force ghosts after they died; wouldn't they have helped guide the Jedi Council? Wouldn't they show up whenever a Jedi could use their tutelage?

One of the smartest things Lucas did with the PT was establish the Force ghost as the manifestation of a learned Force ability. When Obi-Wan tells Vader in ANH that he'll become "more powerful than you can possibly imagine," it makes more sense that being a Force ghost is something that Vader (full of Force knowledge) couldn't possibly imagine . . . because it had never been done before.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

When Kenobi gave himself to the Force and disappeared, he apparently took his boots and belt

Now all I see is a naked old Obi just wearing a belt and boots.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Now all I see is a naked old Obi just wearing a belt and boots.

That's why he only used his ghost *voice* for Luke in ANH, instead of showing up to him like that.

Then he must've found a way to make a Force ghost robe to cover himself up in ESB.

 

[Khev]

One of the smartest things Lucas did with the PT was establish the Force ghost as the manifestation of a learned Force ability. When Obi-Wan tells Vader in ANH that he'll become "more powerful than you can possibly imagine," it makes more sense that being a Force ghost is something that Vader (full of Force knowledge) couldn't possibly imagine . . . because it had never been done before.

Wasn't that pretty clearly established in 1977 with the quote you yourself posted in the very next sentence? Ben tells Vader point blank that if he gets struck down something will happen that he can't imagine and if Vader had been hunting down Jedi as he told Luke back in his hut then Vader should have witnessed many murdered Jedi disappearing if it was something they all did. The fact that he was surprised when Ben did it told us from the very beginning that it was a special and rare and possibly even unprecedented skill.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Wasn't that pretty clearly established in 1977 with the quote you yourself posted in the very next sentence? Ben tells Vader point blank that if he gets struck down something will happen that he can't imagine and if Vader had been hunting down Jedi as he told Luke back in his hut then Vader should have witnessed many murdered Jedi disappearing if it was something they all did. The fact that he was surprised when Ben did it told us from the very beginning that it was a special and rare and possibly even unprecedented skill.

qui gon jinn invented it.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Wasn't that pretty clearly established in 1977 with the quote you yourself posted in the very next sentence? Ben tells Vader point blank that if he gets struck down something will happen that he can't imagine and if Vader had been hunting down Jedi as he told Luke back in his hut then Vader should have witnessed many murdered Jedi disappearing if it was something they all did. The fact that he was surprised when Ben did it told us from the very beginning that it was a special and rare and possibly even unprecedented skill.

I agree with you that it *should've* always been interpreted that way, but lots (maybe most) people still interpreted OT Force ghosts as typical ghosts/spirits as presented in popular culture for a long time prior. Having Yoda and Anakin show up at the end of ROTJ didn't help matters on that front.

That's why I consider it a smart move by Lucas to make it explicit in the PT that it was 1.) a learned skill, and 2.) not something that had been achieved before. But again, you're right in how you summed it up.

 

[Wor-Gar]

None of this explains why Ben's ghost is tired. Or why Anakin got to be young again (since he never learned "the skill").

 

[Khev]

I agree with you that it *should've* always been interpreted that way, but lots (maybe most) people still interpreted OT Force ghosts as typical ghosts/spirits as presented in popular culture for a long time prior. Having Yoda and Anakin show up at the end of ROTJ didn't help matters on that front.

That's why I consider it a smart move by Lucas to make it explicit in the PT that it was 1.) a learned skill, and 2.) not something that had been achieved before. But again, you're right in how you summed it up.

Yes, only the Annotated Screenplays from the 90's ever explained that Anakin didn't disappear but that Yoda and Ben's ghosts were able to "save" his spirit in the afterlife so that he could appear to Luke at the end. I could see how the most would naturally assume based on ROTJ that it just "happened" when a Jedi died since Anakin assumedly had no knowledge of the skill prior to ANH and why further clarification in the PT was helpful.

Of course even then the only "clarification" that George even offered was one throw away line in ROTS.

 

[Khev]

None of this explains why Ben's ghost is tired.

I know you're making a joke but the OT screenplay notes did say that Jedi appearing after death is temporary and requires lots of skill and concentration before they permanently become "one with the Force." That was the OT rationale for why Ben couldn't just help Luke on all his travels or "interfere" on Cloud City. It would have exerted his spirit too much and he would cease to manifest. So the skill was only meant to allow Jedi to briefly commune with the living for a time, assumedly to impart some last bit of info or knowledge before they say goodbye forever. So by the time he sat down with Luke on Dagobah in ROTJ his spirit actually *could* have been tired/weakened.

Of course TLJ completely ignored all that by having Yoda somehow able to appear and blow up forests 30 years later, lol.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

So in a nut shell, nothing makes sense.