Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Khev]

These are confusing times.

 

[Khev]

Another Khev video??!!

 

[guyver1]

As little as the D23 trailer revealed , all I can say is can you imagine if Maul’s double bladed saber was able to do what Rey’s does

 

[TaliBane]

I don't mind the concept of clones in SW; especially with "clone wars" being literally a war using cloned soldiers. But if one of the main protagonists is a clone, I've got a major problem with that because it cheapens the character for me. By definition, there's nothing uniquely special about a clone - someone created specifically to be a *copy* of someone else.

This is going to be a stupid analogy, but think about it like a diamond. A huge diamond would be incredibly valuable when it's a naturally-occurring stone. But if an identical-looking stone was created in a lab, it'd be far less valuable.

If a clone hero dies in a movie, it's kinda like "oh well, there can be another one." Much like time travel, it cheapens the stakes. With time travel, anything catastrophic that happens anymore in that movie universe can be considered less dramatic/urgent because you can conceivably just go back and change things to prevent it from happening.

Clone reveals and time travel are devices that I consider "gimmicks" in storytelling. I'd like SW to keep the gimmicks to a minimum. If Luke or Han were revealed to have been clones, I'd hate it. Even though I care far less about Rey, I'd still hate it if they reveal her to be a clone.

Even back in the OT days I always thought clones were a weird inclusion for SW - mostly because they are a hard sci-fi idea that didn't feel right for a myth/fantasy like SW. I remember hoping that clones didn't feature in ROTJ and was glad they didn't. The PT opened the flood gates.

Saying that every individual has a potential for greatness is far different than individual greatness just being copied and replicated.

Technically, every able-bodied person has the potential to be great at a sport like baseball or soccer (practice, study, dedication, etc.). But Willie Mays and Pele were still more naturally gifted at their sports. That natural ability (their unique advantage), allowed them to be legends. If you cloned either one to play today, it would be nothing more than a copied version of original greatness. Not as special.

And I find it funny that people complain now about how Disney Wars "came up with" the idea that anyone has the potential to use the Force. It's funny because George Lucas told Lawrence Kasdan the same thing back in 1981 when they were making ROTJ.

Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it?

Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it.

Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?

Lucas: It?s just the Jedi who take the time to do it.

Marquand: They use it as a technique.

Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn?t go out and fight anybody.

If you're a fan of the prequels, please read the rest of that conversation transcript to see part of the reasons why some of us were so let down by the PT. Here's the link:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/star-wars-prequels-return-of-the-jedi_n_3313793

Yeah, not sure where this idea that Disney created the "anyone can become a Jedi" came from - I always thought it was open to anyone back in the OT days. That was the KEY APPEAL of the force for kids like me.

Until midiclorians came long that is. Theranos would have done well in the SW universe.

As I've said before - produce some SW analysis videos on YT and you'll get a ton of views.

 

[surforia]

All this talk about Sidious creating Anakin through the force? I don?t buy it. Just because it showed up on a page of a marvel comic (in an abstract force vision at that) doesn?t mean it?s been confirmed. If it is referenced or is portrayed in the movie, then I?ll buy it.

 

[abake]

Saying that every individual has a potential for greatness is far different than individual greatness just being copied and replicated.

Technically, every able-bodied person has the potential to be great at a sport like baseball or soccer (practice, study, dedication, etc.). But Willie Mays and Pele were still more naturally gifted at their sports. That natural ability (their unique advantage), allowed them to be legends. If you cloned either one to play today, it would be nothing more than a copied version of original greatness. Not as special.

And I find it funny that people complain now about how Disney Wars "came up with" the idea that anyone has the potential to use the Force. It's funny because George Lucas told Lawrence Kasdan the same thing back in 1981 when they were making ROTJ.

Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it?

Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it.

Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?

Lucas: It?s just the Jedi who take the time to do it.

Marquand: They use it as a technique.

Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn?t go out and fight anybody.

If you're a fan of the prequels, please read the rest of that conversation transcript to see part of the reasons why some of us were so let down by the PT. Here's the link:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/star-wars-prequels-return-of-the-jedi_n_3313793

For me it's never been about "anybody has the potential", beause sure, anybody has potential. It's about having to train for it, work for it, and yes, that some people do have more potential than others.
In that sense, the broomstick kid was a bit silly, as was Rey's near-magical speed at mastering the Force.

As for the conversation, will have a look!

 

[jye4ever]

Even if the twin sister rumor turns out to be true still wack that they would reveal that in a trailer.

Desperate times calls for desperate measures I guess.

I tell you what though marketing wise it worked freaking wonders that?s all everyone is talking about in the geeksphere.

I wonder if the saber design will come to represent the duality


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[abake]

Alright, just read it.
I don't see what the problem is...

Lucas says anybody can be a Jedi, but you have to train to become good, and he also says there are folks who are "strong with the Force", like the Skywalkers. Where's the contradiction in that? Anybody can train Karate, but not everybody gets to be Mas Oyama...
There is no "conflict" with the idea of the midichlorians, Qui Gon says they're inside everybody, it's just that if you have more of them, you'll probably be more in tune with the Force. Again, it doesn't negate people from being Jedi, it just makes it easier for some. Like having a good genetic build up to be an athlete, or a crap genetic build up that makes you prone to get Alzheimer's or whatever...

And here's some more interesting reading:
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-prequels-midichlorians-george-lucas-1977/

 

[rushmore223]

Even if the twin sister rumor turns out to be true still wack that they would reveal that in a trailer.

Desperate times calls for desperate measures I guess.

I tell you what though marketing wise it worked freaking wonders that?s all everyone is talking about in the geeksphere.

I wonder if the saber design will come to represent the duality


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Yep, never underestimate Disney (or James Cameron)

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[Wor-Gar]

Even if the twin sister rumor turns out to be true

She's either Han and Leia's secret daughter (which would explain much of why Han reacted to her the way he did), or she's Luke's daughter somehow. She has Skywalker blood. She's not a nobody.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

A few more thoughts

Clones, in the clone wars were created differently (mass production using 1 source) than Rey and for a much different purpose. They also look identical to their Source but each still have distinct personalities which is why Palpatine had those inhibitor chips installed in their heads during the cloning process to make them comply and obey order 66. He couldn?t trust them not to act on their own accord as individuals.

Anakin was literally created by Palpatine and placed into Shmi's belly with the force (force **** idk) Anakin is no less a clone then Rey, if natural conception is the bar, he just had the distinction of being the first and only copy made by Palps (he could have created more force babies easily) but he didnt because again his overconfidence he could not possibly fail with this pupil. He also wanted to maintain the rule of 2, an Apprentice and the Master, there can be only 2.

I believe Reys ?cloning?/creation process is more like Anakin then like the Clones in Clone wars. The fact she isn?t an exact replica of Anakin, means she has to be have someone else?s dna mixed in (who the other source is anyone's guess) but combining two peoples dna makes here special right, isn?t that how we are created. Now the 2nd rey is an exact replica, so she was either Cloned from rey#1 (in the normal process -exact replica of source Rey#1) or the process somehow resulted in identical ?twins? (bring it full circle baby). Just brainstorming here but maybe Palpatine didn?t order them to create multiple Reys maybe they ****ed up, or some rogue stole one of the twins before anyone could find out there were more than 1, and if there were multiples maybe they were ordered to kill them all but 1. The empire tends to screw **** up for Palps, which is why our Rey ended up where she did. In either case someone didn?t want Palpatine to find out about her.

Having said all that, Even if there were multiple reys accidently created during the creation process in a lab (lab baby). Rey is special since she was created using skywalker dna and that of some other person. She is no less special than Anakin Skywalker who was also created by Palps but in a much creepier manner.

A few more hints about Rey being created in a lab using Anakins DNA

1) She doesn?t have "parents" because her parents did not natural conceive her she was created (dna of Anakin/Vader and some unknown female). In TFA Maz says look to the future that past belonging you seek is gone, because she never really had parents or a family in the traditional sense (not a possibility). She will never have a family, she will always be alone which was her greatest fear (I am a nobody) because the main source of her DNA has been dead and gone for years before she was even born in that lab.

2) Anakin?s saber called to her because she has Anakin?s dna she is essentially his lab created daughter just born in a bacta tank of some sort not naturally like he was (although he wasn?t conceived naturally)

3) Luke states he has only seen this type of raw power once before it didn?t scare me enough then but it does now. Everyone assumes he was talking about Kylo but he was not he was talking about his first encounter with darth vader. Yoda warns Luke about the confrontation ? you will be afraid, you will be?? but he wasn?t in empire he went rushing in to confront Vader which is what he is referring too (Vaders power). All joking a side about kylo getting his butt wooped by everyone lol, luke was not referring to him, luke trained him himself if he feared him he wouldn?t have trained him from the start. This also explains his reluctance to train Rey, he focuses on balance and calm because vader was the opposite of that and its what led to his downfall, he was either full on JEDI savor, lover, or full on evil *******. There was no balance in Anakin.

4) Her innate piloting abilities and infinity for the force are because of Anakin?s dna in her

I like your theory.

We'll see come December whether your ideas pan out.

She's either Han and Leia's secret daughter (which would explain much of why Han reacted to her the way he did), or she's Luke's daughter somehow. She has Skywalker blood. She's not a nobody.

I always wondered if Han knew more than he was letting on because of his reaction to Rey.

 

[jye4ever]

Yep, never underestimate Disney (or James Cameron)

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EG lead the summer discussion for months.

Then it jumped to Spiderman drama which almost derailed D23.

Disney played their cards right by releasing this SW mini footage to the public because those few seconds have now kept the summer conversation in the Disney wheelhouse and brought SW back into the conversation post EG.

She's either Han and Leia's secret daughter (which would explain much of why Han reacted to her the way he did), or she's Luke's daughter somehow. She has Skywalker blood. She's not a nobody.

Yup you?re probably right.

Twin sister is almost interchangeable with clone since a clone can still be nurtured.

A twin can still be manipulated to be good or bad.

A clone can still be nurtured to be good or bad.

I don?t know about the whole petri dish creation of Rey from an amalgamation of multiple entities that?s getting into really super science territory for SW.

Maybe she?s an android lol


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[Prime Clone]

All this talk about Sidious creating Anakin through the force? I don?t buy it. Just because it showed up on a page of a marvel comic (in an abstract force vision at that) doesn?t mean it?s been confirmed. If it is referenced or is portrayed in the movie, then I?ll buy it.

I always felt it was heavily implied in ROTS - either Sidious or Plagueis.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Alright, just read it.
I don't see what the problem is...

Lucas says anybody can be a Jedi, but you have to train to become good, and he also says there are folks who are "strong with the Force", like the Skywalkers. Where's the contradiction in that? Anybody can train Karate, but not everybody gets to be Mas Oyama...
There is no "conflict" with the idea of the midichlorians, Qui Gon says they're inside everybody, it's just that if you have more of them, you'll probably be more in tune with the Force. Again, it doesn't negate people from being Jedi, it just makes it easier for some. Like having a good genetic build up to be an athlete, or a crap genetic build up that makes you prone to get Alzheimer's or whatever...

And here's some more interesting reading:
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-prequels-midichlorians-george-lucas-1977/

I apologize, abake; I didn't mean to suggest that the midichlorians thing would be the takeaway from reading the 1981 conversation transcript. I was referring mostly to how Anakin's fall was described. Whenever I reference the story of the PT (ROTS in particular), my biggest objection has always been the way that I feel Anakin's turn was handled horrendously. I've maintained (and always will) that it was flimsily-established, nonsensical, rushed, and just poorly executed technically.

In that 1981 conversation, Lucas outlines how Anakin would've demonstrated erratic behavior over the course of Jedi missions (plural!) across the galaxy, where he even starts killing Jedi who turn their back on him. That type of evolving descent into darkness would make a lot more sense than turning to the dark side "to save his wife" and having his first act (moments after turning) be the slaughter of younglings.

The "save Padme" rationale for why the greatest villain in cinema history turned evil is the single-dumbest thing I've seen in SW. I know that you disagree (strongly), but I'm just telling you what aspect of the 1981 conversation makes people like me yearn for that earlier version instead of what we actually got in the PT.

Also, GL's description of Yoda not being a fighter, and having no chance against someone like Vader, was completely turned on its head in the PT. Had Lucas kept Yoda's characterization the way he described in 1981 (as a guru of the Jedi ways), his exile on Dagobah would not be able to be interpreted as cowardly. I think it would've preserved more integrity for the Yoda character by sticking with the original characterization.

Finally, there's the bit about Leia having her mother around for a couple of years. That would have made her look like less of a senile ***** when she's describing her mom to Luke in ROTJ. GL's prequel story in 1981 was superior (in my opinion only, of course). That was my point.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I always wondered if Han knew more than he was letting on because of his reaction to Rey.

I do believe they planted those 'reactions' purposely even though, at the time, they may have yet decided on the many ways it could be interpreted. But I believe Han "knows something". If he isn't the father, then he was the one who dropped her off and flew away.

 

[TaliBane]

She's either Han and Leia's secret daughter (which would explain much of why Han reacted to her the way he did), or she's Luke's daughter somehow. She has Skywalker blood. She's not a nobody.

If she's Luke and Leia's secret daughter that would explain much of why Luke reacted to her the way he did.

 

[surfin4]

This is turning into a soap opera.

 

[xipotec]

She?s a clone made from Luke?s severed hand......and manipulated by Palpatine.

The original story JJ was working on started off with Lukes hand and the lost Saber.....

Well we know the saber was found.....so was his hand.



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Star-Crunch]

If she's Luke and Leia's secret daughter that would explain much of why Luke reacted to her the way he did.

 

[ironwez20]

Honestly whatever happens I?m sure nobody will care and people will find out from a leak like 90 percent of the internet plan to do