Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

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Hell yeah. Lucas has pretended to have had a sprawling master plan, but the evidence is all up there on the screen, most notoriously the Luke & Leia make-out in ESB followed by their being siblings in ROTJ.

It's not like he knew what the Clone Wars actually were. It was a throw-away line in 1977. Etc. etc.

As far as all the films go IMO:

Greatness -- ANH, ESB

Very, very good albeit flawed -- ROTJ (Ewoks, some questionable choices but satisfactory resolution) -- Rogue One (Too dark and gritty for traditional SW but *so entertaining* and gorgeous texture)

Fun -- Solo

Poor outings but had their moments -- TPM (Jar Jar, Lil' Ani etc. but Sidious, Maul, Duel of the Fates) -- Revenge of the Sith (Sidious)

Confusing -- TFA (Re-hash, blew it with OT characters, killed Han etc. but Falcon chase, scary Kylo + F.O. introduction, Rey was entertaining)

Dead to me -- AOTC, TLJ

I think that's as honest as I can be. In AOTC I did like the brawl between Jango and Obi Wan, and their chase through the asteroid field in spite of Baby Boba.

That?s actually a pretty decent breakdown EXCEPT TLJ simply because Luke and Leia are in it and I just don?t have the will power to ever declare them being in any bad SW.

Sorry that?s just my own personal demons that I wrestle with every day of my life lol

But thank you for calling out little Fett lol


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Nik Cage will save the ST one day. It shall be resurrected.:lecture

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That's high praise!


I swear TROS looks like a "Ready Player One" mash-up with Star Wars and Nathan Drake.

Does JJ know you're supposed to borrow from historical references... not modern day video games and female fashion?
 
I could see myself accepting TLJ if I like TROS and/or Mando makes the FO cool.

Otherwise I'd definitely put RO in the "great" category.

As films to actually sit through there's no way I'd pick AOTC or ROTS over TLJ. The former two are just brutal for very long stretches.
 
I could see myself accepting TLJ if I like TROS and/or Mando makes the FO cool.

Otherwise I'd definitely put RO in the "great" category.

As films to actually sit through there's no way I'd pick AOTC or ROTS over TLJ. The former two are just brutal for very long stretches.

Oh I *love* Rogue One, I just think it's a hair off-brand. As Talibane put it once...even the women have 5 o'clock shadow. :lol
 
Possibly. And true, the Empire and Rebellion were well known, even if Luke said, "It all seems such a long way from here." Tatooine was still technically under Imperial control even if it wasn't a huge priority to the Empire. But in practical terms it was probably still "controlled by the Hutts".






From your point of view :D

Well there are issues with that. They say there are outer rim worlds that the Empire has hardly touched, controlled by the Hutts or the Syndicate (see Solo)

Clearly the rebels had the Yavin system, and before its destruction Alderaan. We also know Hoth , Dagobah, Bespin, had no imperial presence.

So its clearly shown the Empire does not have its troops EVERYWHERE, but move from place to place to quell and opposition. (Again see Kessell in solo, the empire props up the criminal elements there when they get wind of an uprising.

The Empires control was based on fear, Tarking says as much. ?Fear will keep the other systems in line?.

The do not have the power to keep the galaxy in line themselves...


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Oh I *love* Rogue One, I just think it's a hair off-brand. As Talibane put it once...even the women have 5 o'clock shadow. :lol

RO suffers from some serious shallow character backstory building but it is saved by some decent memorable moments peppered at just the right intervals accompanied by properly handled nostalgia, a great new droid and last but certainly not least an enormously entertaining pure SW 3rd act with appropriate levels of tragedy.




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RO suffers from some serious shallow character backstory building but it is saved by some decent memorable moments peppered at just the right intervals accompanied by properly handled nostalgia, a great new droid and last but certainly not least an enormously entertaining pure SW 3rd act with appropriate levels of tragedy.

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All true, but it's marred by the decision to prominently feature a CGI Peter Cushing. Every time I watch RO his appearance takes me completely out of the movie. I still think he should have only appeared via sub-space transmissions, with maybe a few distant shots mixed in if his presence on the DS was absolutely necessary to the story.
 
Hell yeah. Lucas has pretended to have had a sprawling master plan

At last he will reveal himself to the SJWs. At last he will have revenge.

"Move against the Story Group first, you will then have no difficulty in taking Queen Kennedala to Burbank to sign the letter of resignation."

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RO suffers from some serious shallow character backstory building but it is saved by some decent memorable moments peppered at just the right intervals accompanied by properly handled nostalgia, a great new droid and last but certainly not least an enormously entertaining pure SW 3rd act with appropriate levels of tragedy.




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:exactly:

Never more precisely summarized.

That's high praise!


I swear TROS looks like a "Ready Player One" mash-up with Star Wars and Nathan Drake.

Does JJ know you're supposed to borrow from historical references... not modern day video games and female fashion?

He'll get in his snowspeeder and fly over that faux-snow-salt of faux-Hoth-Crait and take down that faux-Luke, hologram or no hologram.

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Wonder if the Cassian series will bring any more on board the Rogue one train. Imagine we'll get plenty of background for him and K2 at least. Which seems to be the chief complaint. Imo the only real characters that could use some more 'splanin though are Baze and Chirrut.
 
Yeah, I'd prefer a Baze and Chirrut series 100x more. What can they do with Cassian and K2 that wasn't already done in Rogue One?
 
Wonder if the Cassian series will bring any more on board the Rogue one train. Imagine we'll get plenty of background for him and K2 at least. Which seems to be the chief complaint. Imo the only real characters that could use some more 'splanin though are Baze and Chirrut.

Cassian and even to some degree Jyn were parts of RO I liked least. It's weird to like a movie but dislike (or just not be interested in) the two leads. I found him to be dull, unlikable and lacking in humor and charisma - someone who could have been built up as a decent second tier character (one of the grunts who stood out and got more screen time) but as a more major character he was a bit of a dud.

Wait... what's this new series called...?:monkey3:lol
 
Wonder if the Cassian series will bring any more on board the Rogue one train. Imagine we'll get plenty of background for him and K2 at least. Which seems to be the chief complaint. Imo the only real characters that could use some more 'splanin though are Baze and Chirrut.

Saw backstory with Galen was severely lacking as was Cassian hell everyones back story was severely lacking in RO lol

Yeah, I'd prefer a Baze and Chirrut series 100x more. What can they do with Cassian and K2 that wasn't already done in Rogue One?

I agree but we already watched Baze and Chirrut ending just the same as Cassian and K2.

That?s the problem with prequels.

RO getting its own prequel is actually kind of hilarious when you think about it.

Cassian and even to some degree Jyn were parts of RO I liked least. It's weird to like a movie but dislike (or just not be interested in) the two leads. I found him to be dull, unlikable and lacking in humor and charisma - someone who could have been built up as a decent second tier character (one of the grunts who stood out and got more screen time) but as a more major character he was a bit of a dud.

Wait... what's this new series called...?:monkey3:lol

:lol :lol :lol


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Saw backstory with Galen was severely lacking as was Cassian hell everyones back story was severely lacking in RO

A little early for one of my epic posts but I have coffee so:

They had 1 film; how much backstory could they fit in and how much did we need?

Compare with ANH:

  • We knew Ben fought in the Clone Wars and knew Luke?s dad, and had beef with Vader.
  • Uncle Owen was grumpy, Beru cooked things and was more chill.
  • Luke was sexually frustrated and bored.
  • The droids had seen some action.
  • Leia was a sassy rebel spy.
  • Han was shady and in debt, Chewie was furry and violent.
  • The other rebels were red-shirts and after Act 1 so were the stormtroopers.
  • We knew Vader was more machine than man, twisted and evil, and killed Luke?s dad.
  • Tarkin was e-vil.


I can?t see a huge difference between these characters and Rogue One.

I?d say the weakest character that made little sense was Saw. Everyone else?

  • K2 was a sassy re-programmed Imperial Droid.
  • Jyn had a hard life after watching her mother die and father abducted.
  • Cassian was a hard-*** spy and killer.
  • Base and Chirrut were unemployed; one lost his faith the other kept it.
  • Bodhi was an Imperial defector in over his head.
  • Galen devoted the remainder of his days to sabotaging the Empire?s planet killer.
  • Saw was a violent lunatic who inexplicably decided on suicide-by-debris.
  • Other rebels were red-shirts.
  • Orson was a psychopathic career social climber and power hungry.
  • Tarkin was e-vil.
  • Vader was a killing machine but still had snappy one-liners.


Was there really that much less character development across the board between Rogue One and ANH?

Cassian and Jyn and K2 learn to trust each other. Cassian refrains from killing Galen. Everyone sacrifices their lives.

Luke becomes a hero, Han does a noble thing for his new friends and a cause, Ben sacrifices himself.

RO: Finding Trust and Redemption + Sacrifice
ANH: Hero?s Journey, Sacrifice, and Finding A Conscience.


In my estimation the problem is not ?backstory? it?s dramatic character arcs.

The characters in Rogue One?s relationships change but the characters themselves don?t change that much.

In ANH some of the characters transform and find themselves dramatically.

Arguably, Chewie, Ben and Leia don?t change at all, and neither do the droids. But what change we do see in others is dramatic.

If the differing agendas of Jyn and Cassian had been shown to have more stakes like Luke and Han?s, and if they had changed more dramatically, maybe we?d like them more.

Jyn *did* find purpose and friendship. Cassian *did* find redemption and a purpose for the things he?s done, but we didn?t feel them so much.

That could come down to script and chemistry.

Han and Luke were buddies, they had banter and schemed together. Han disillusioned Luke and ditched him. Then he had a change of heart and saved the day.

That was chemistry (Luke the wide-eyed idealist vs. Han the cool cynic) and pacing we reacted to (trench run remains suspenseful and well-paced to this day).

So tldr; Rogue One needed more chemistry, better writing, more contrast between Jyn and Cassian, and more transformative character arcs.

Not more backstory.

In that sense I'd have to agree that Cassian lacked charisma, but actually so did Jyn, hence no chemistry. K2 stole the show personality-wise.

EDIT: And we should all know that "More Backstory" is actually the kiss of death for Star Wars.
 
A little early for one of my epic posts but I have coffee so:

They had 1 film; how much backstory could they fit in and how much did we need?

Compare with ANH:

  • We knew Ben fought in the Clone Wars and knew Luke?s dad, and had beef with Vader.
  • Uncle Owen was grumpy, Beru cooked things and was more chill.
  • Luke was sexually frustrated and bored.
  • The droids had seen some action.
  • Leia was a sassy rebel spy.
  • Han was shady and in debt, Chewie was furry and violent.
  • The other rebels were red-shirts and after Act 1 so were the stormtroopers.
  • We knew Vader was more machine than man, twisted and evil, and killed Luke?s dad.
  • Tarkin was e-vil.


I can?t see a huge difference between these characters and Rogue One.

I?d say the weakest character that made little sense was Saw. Everyone else?

  • K2 was a sassy re-programmed Imperial Droid.
  • Jyn had a hard life after watching her mother die and father abducted.
  • Cassian was a hard-*** spy and killer.
  • Base and Chirrut were unemployed; one lost his faith the other kept it.
  • Bodhi was an Imperial defector in over his head.
  • Galen devoted the remainder of his days to sabotaging the Empire?s planet killer.
  • Saw was a violent lunatic who inexplicably decided on suicide-by-debris.
  • Other rebels were red-shirts.
  • Orson was a psychopathic career social climber and power hungry.
  • Tarkin was e-vil.
  • Vader was a killing machine but still had snappy one-liners.


Was there really that much less character development across the board between Rogue One and ANH?

Cassian and Jyn and K2 learn to trust each other. Cassian refrains from killing Galen. Everyone sacrifices their lives.

Luke becomes a hero, Han does a noble thing for his new friends and a cause, Ben sacrifices himself.

RO: Finding Trust and Redemption + Sacrifice
ANH: Hero?s Journey, Sacrifice, and Finding A Conscience.


In my estimation the problem is not ?backstory? it?s dramatic character arcs.

The characters in Rogue One?s relationships change but the characters themselves don?t change that much.

In ANH some of the characters transform and find themselves dramatically.

Arguably, Chewie, Ben and Leia don?t change at all, and neither do the droids. But what change we do see in others is dramatic.

If the differing agendas of Jyn and Cassian had been shown to have more stakes like Luke and Han?s, and if they had changed more dramatically, maybe we?d like them more.

Jyn *did* find purpose and friendship. Cassian *did* find redemption and a purpose for the things he?s done, but we didn?t feel them so much.

That could come down to script and chemistry.

Han and Luke were buddies, they had banter and schemed together. Han disillusioned Luke and ditched him. Then he had a change of heart and saved the day.

That was chemistry (Luke the wide-eyed idealist vs. Han the cool cynic) and pacing we reacted to (trench run remains suspenseful and well-paced to this day).

So tldr; Rogue One needed more chemistry, better writing, more contrast between Jyn and Cassian, and more transformative character arcs.

Not more backstory.

In that sense I'd have to agree that Cassian lacked charisma, but actually so did Jyn, hence no chemistry. K2 stole the show personality-wise.

EDIT: And we should all know that "More Backstory" is actually the kiss of death for Star Wars.

People easily lose sight of this. As someone who saw ANH in the theater opening week (when it was just SW episode IV, what the hell is that?) we knew NOTHING about most of the characters before the films set time. People now amalgamate all the crap thats come out over 40 years and somehow think all that existed in 77. It did not.

We were hungry for more, and that hunger fueled everything that followed.




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A little early for one of my epic posts but I have coffee so:

They had 1 film; how much backstory could they fit in and how much did we need?

Compare with ANH:

  • We knew Ben fought in the Clone Wars and knew Luke?s dad, and had beef with Vader.
  • Uncle Owen was grumpy, Beru cooked things and was more chill.
  • Luke was sexually frustrated and bored.
  • The droids had seen some action.
  • Leia was a sassy rebel spy.
  • Han was shady and in debt, Chewie was furry and violent.
  • The other rebels were red-shirts and after Act 1 so were the stormtroopers.
  • We knew Vader was more machine than man, twisted and evil, and killed Luke?s dad.
  • Tarkin was e-vil.


I can?t see a huge difference between these characters and Rogue One.

I?d say the weakest character that made little sense was Saw. Everyone else?

  • K2 was a sassy re-programmed Imperial Droid.
  • Jyn had a hard life after watching her mother die and father abducted.
  • Cassian was a hard-*** spy and killer.
  • Base and Chirrut were unemployed; one lost his faith the other kept it.
  • Bodhi was an Imperial defector in over his head.
  • Galen devoted the remainder of his days to sabotaging the Empire?s planet killer.
  • Saw was a violent lunatic who inexplicably decided on suicide-by-debris.
  • Other rebels were red-shirts.
  • Orson was a psychopathic career social climber and power hungry.
  • Tarkin was e-vil.
  • Vader was a killing machine but still had snappy one-liners.


Was there really that much less character development across the board between Rogue One and ANH?

Cassian and Jyn and K2 learn to trust each other. Cassian refrains from killing Galen. Everyone sacrifices their lives.

Luke becomes a hero, Han does a noble thing for his new friends and a cause, Ben sacrifices himself.

RO: Finding Trust and Redemption + Sacrifice
ANH: Hero?s Journey, Sacrifice, and Finding A Conscience.


In my estimation the problem is not ?backstory? it?s dramatic character arcs.

The characters in Rogue One?s relationships change but the characters themselves don?t change that much.

In ANH some of the characters transform and find themselves dramatically.

Arguably, Chewie, Ben and Leia don?t change at all, and neither do the droids. But what change we do see in others is dramatic.

If the differing agendas of Jyn and Cassian had been shown to have more stakes like Luke and Han?s, and if they had changed more dramatically, maybe we?d like them more.

Jyn *did* find purpose and friendship. Cassian *did* find redemption and a purpose for the things he?s done, but we didn?t feel them so much.

That could come down to script and chemistry.

Han and Luke were buddies, they had banter and schemed together. Han disillusioned Luke and ditched him. Then he had a change of heart and saved the day.

That was chemistry (Luke the wide-eyed idealist vs. Han the cool cynic) and pacing we reacted to (trench run remains suspenseful and well-paced to this day).

So tldr; Rogue One needed more chemistry, better writing, more contrast between Jyn and Cassian, and more transformative character arcs.

Not more backstory.

In that sense I'd have to agree that Cassian lacked charisma, but actually so did Jyn, hence no chemistry. K2 stole the show personality-wise.

EDIT: And we should all know that "More Backstory" is actually the kiss of death for Star Wars.

Backstory is an integral part of a character arc lol

It adds the drama to make your dramatic arc.

When you learn to quiet your mind you?ll hear the story group speaking to you.

Nice post nonetheless.


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