Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

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Star Wars should not be just something that is 'tolerable'.

I don't know about that... Lets face it... The bad is overwhelmingly the norm in the SW universe now.

I don't think the PT is any good when you get down to it.. I tolerate its existence.
I don't think the first two films in the ST are very good.. The 3rd one filled in some holes that I happened to like... So it made them PT tolerable

SW and ESB are the only two perfect SW films.

I love parts of ROTJ but some of the film I have to tolerate (Han, Leia, boring Ewok battle, some really bad script writing).

RO is very good.. I would argue that Vader's scene took it to that very good level. But SW and Empire it is not.

Solo... That film has lost some of its appeal to me.. I would say I tolerate it / borderline ignore it.


Hell I tolerated a lot of bad episodes of the Mandalorian.

It seems that SW is a series that we end up having to tolerate a whole ton.

Basically it boils down to the fact that I loved the Universe, many of the characters and find the first two films to be perfect movies with ROTJ having a few perfect moments.

TROS and RO happened to hit some of the things that made me love the OT and that's why I like them both. I tolerate the rest. TROS helped me to tolerate the first 2. Had TROS not hit the landing for me I would right off the whole ST as whole.. Hell TROS helped me to tolerate the PT more... Will it stand the test of time for me? That I cant answer.
 
You forgot the biggest question for a-dev:

23.) How does ajp4mgs have enough free time to come up with all these questions? :wink1:

I'll never fault a person for spending too much time dwelling on Star Wars, lol.

:lol

https://youtu.be/kEztkckjRtE?t=41


Had a thought on why they had Rey ending Palpatine by way of his own force lightning.

It was a way of killing him 'passively', and not in anger and hatred as he needed. Another possible reason why his spirit couldn't pass into her.

As for his failure to change strategy - yeah I think you just have to put that down to stubborn arrogance.

Just a couple of rationalizations that I could probably buy if I were willing to accept this overall storyline for a ST.



:lol

Holy crap that totally makes sense, nice work!

Wait until Khev reads that you?re getting this:

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:lol Indeed plus a hearty:

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:D

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Would you mind telling ajp that the Anakin bloodline has destroyed Palpatine once again lol

And are you sitting down...

Anakin bloodline therefore his midichlorian not only changed Rey from a Palpatine to a Skywalker he also stopped another person from dying so Anakin got the last word in afterall because in ROTS Palpatine robbed him of doing just that.

Even with ALL the Jedi helping Rey it was STILL Anakin who resurrected her into her new post Palpatine life so it was only fitting that she carried the Skywalker name going forward especially since his freaking midichlorians are mixed in with hers.

Anakin literally converted the Sith bloodline into Skywalker bloodline. Rey had to die for that to happen for her Palpatine bloodline to be fully eradicated.


Please let this be the last word that Anakin Skywalker accomplishments were all for nothing in the OT lol

Come here now let Khev give you a hug.

There is no saving a-dev though.

Terminator franchise is dead.

SW franchise is dead.

NECA toys is dead.

2019 no bueno for a-dev lol

Hooooleeeee crap.....

:thud:

"With all due respect, Master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring Balance to the Force??

"Destroy the Sith AND bring Balance to the Force."

We always connect those as if they are all part of the same action.

What if "destroying the Sith" is simply its own thing? Namely killing Palpatine, which he did by himself in ROTJ and then again with all the Jedi in TROS.

AND bring Balance to the Force, another *unrelated* action entirely?? Namely resurrecting a girl through his direct heir, leaving one single remaining Jedi with both Palpatine blood and Skywalker midichlorians?? BALANCE. :panic:

Wow.. TROS might just be the best SW movie now. :)

JAWS may be right. :thud:

;)
 
Hooooleeeee crap.....

:thud:

"With all due respect, Master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring Balance to the Force??

"Destroy the Sith AND bring Balance to the Force."

We always connect those as if they are all part of the same action.

What if "destroying the Sith" is simply its own thing? Namely killing Palpatine, which he did by himself in ROTJ and then again with all the Jedi in TROS.

AND bring Balance to the Force, another *unrelated* action entirely?? Namely resurrecting a girl through his direct heir, leaving one single remaining Jedi with both Palpatine blood and Skywalker midichlorians?? BALANCE. :panic:

;)

Oh man... Mind blown!!!
 
Will it stand the test of time for me? That I cant answer.

That's the big question. I'm quite certain it will fade into Solo status for you by next year and beyond. Its really not good overall, and simply "the latest and final chapter" is all it really has going for it.

Imagine how it will play over time. With RO, a lot of people here weren't sure what to make of it -- it has this amazing finale but no one liked the characters much, it was the first one-off, everyone died, awkward OT plug-ins, etc. Yet, over time for most, people came around to why its so good especially after multiple viewings when you settle in -- there's nothing to derail your enjoyment: it has no blatant logic problems, no truly cringey moments, no undoing something that proceeded it. It flows like a great song.

TROS on the other hand, I believe its flaws will simply become more apparent with time and become more obnoxious and difficult to ignore. There's no outstanding set-piece that is that great that you want to experience again and again like that RO climactic end battle. Its full of moments followed by bumps to disregard. It flows like an OK song; there's a beat you like and a section you enjoy but then there's that chorus that's pretty bad that plays again and again. Kids will love it because its fast and busy, colorful and loud... just like Jedi was in its day. It's the ST's 'greatest hits' much like Jedi was to the OT.


I still prefer the ROTJ final space battle.. It just has more "wow" moments IMO.

I would love to see a count of the "wow" moments in the space battle of Jedi. I'm pretty sure RO could beat the count.
 
That's the big question. I'm quite certain it will fade into Solo status for you by next year and beyond. Its really not good overall, and simply "the latest and final chapter" is all it really has going for it.

Imagine how it will play over time. With RO, a lot of people here weren't sure what to make of it -- it has this amazing finale but no one liked the characters much, it was the first one-off, everyone died, awkward OT plug-ins, etc. Yet, over time for most, people came around to why its so good especially after multiple viewings when you settle in -- there's nothing to derail your enjoyment: it has no blatant logic problems, no truly cringey moments, no undoing something that proceeded it. It flows like a great song.

TROS on the other hand, I believe its flaws will simply become more apparent with time and become more obnoxious and difficult to ignore. There's no outstanding set-piece that is that great that you want to experience again and again like that RO climactic end battle. Its full of moments followed by bumps to disregard. It flows like an OK song; there's a beat you like and a section you enjoy but then there's that chorus that's pretty bad that plays again and again. Kids will love it because its fast and busy, colorful and loud... just like Jedi was in its day. It's the ST's 'greatest hits' much like Jedi was to the OT.

I am sure that RO will come out the winner. Repeat viewings of that film helped me like the characters more as I knew what they were all about.

I don't think TROS will fall to Solo like levels as I fell out of love with solo with the 2nd viewing and have only watched parts of it since.

But we will see. I never have issues admitting I am wrong with movies.




I would love to see a count of the "wow" moments in the space battle of Jedi. I'm pretty sure RO could beat the count.

Now I have seen Jedi a bunch more than RO obviously.. But I really don't recall anything that was WOW in RO. I remember the Hammerhead ship, which I didn't like.. But there was no Falcon running from the initial explosion of the death Star into the internal trench... Or Following the Falcon in to the trench.. OR that shot of all the ties, x wings and the falcon in that money shot... The Falcon Helping Wedge is a great shot. The Death Star Destroying ships...

I Don't know.. I pretty much love everything about the space battle in Jedi.

I liked the RO battle but I will have to give it another go as I don't remember the space battle well at all.
 
I liked the RO battle but I will have to give it another go as I don't remember the space battle well at all.

You have to watch it again. And again. I'm quite certain it will win you over in time as you and I have similar tastes, just different nostalgic eras to draw from. It will never "beat" ROTJ because that is a seminal film for you clearly... but I think you will come to relish the last 40 minutes of RO.
 
Okay, a-dev, now that you've answered the Palpatine lightning self-assassination conundrum, take a crack at these: :lol

1.) If the Sith Fleet of death star destroyers can't navigate out of Exogol without a navigation tower signal, how did the Resistance ships navigate out?

2.) If there are only two wayfinders to Exogol, and one nav tower to get out, how were all of the supplies and manpower getting to and from there?

3.) How did Leia know that Rey was a Palpatine? Jedi have the ability to sense someone's lineage now? That would've come in handy when Vader was interrogating Leia in ANH.

4.) If Palpatine created Snoke, and possessed that body with his spirit, what happened to Palpatine's spirit when Snoke was killed? Shouldn't it inhabit the one who "strikes him down?"

5.) When Palpatine was Snoke, his powers were overwhelming Rey. Snoke outmatched her, read her mind, and made her look foolish. So, what does Palpatine need Rey for?

6.) How do the FO TIE Fighters follow Poe's "lightspeed skipping" in real time? How could they possibly know his jump coordinates that quickly?

7.) Is Force lightning something that gets inherited now? It's not something you need to learn how to manifest? Does that mean that Rey is a Sith by birth?

8.) How did all of the planet-hopping adventures happen in the 16-hour timeframe that was given in the movie?

9.) How could Lando possibly recruit and gather that many ships from around the galaxy in much less than 16 hours?

10.) If the Resistance ships were following Rey's signal to R2-D2, how did Lando's Fleet get there afterwards?

11.) Why didn't the Resistance ships fall to the ground (while in Exogol's atmosphere) after Palpatine disabled them?

12.) How did Rey and Kylo know about Force healing and resurrection, but Anakin - under 10-year tutelage of the Jedi council, and with the Jedi library at his disposal - was never aware of it?

13.) How could Palpatine not know about Rey and Kylo's "Force dyad" connection? Wasn't he Snoke? Wasn't he aware of bridging their minds?

14.) How did Rey sense Chewbacca on the star destroyer, but Kylo couldn't sense Rey (his "Force dyad" partner) there when the two of them simply swapped locations?

15.) When Palpatine drained Rey and Ben, and no longer needed either one of them, why flick Ben into a pit and do nothing to Rey? Why not Force choke both?

16.) How did the KOR know that he was Ben not Kylo, and just started attacking him? And why didn't Ben use the Force to subdue them?

17.) If Palpatine could get in Kylo's head to manipulate him from anywhere, couldn't he have done the same with Rey (his own grandaughter) all along?

18.) Did Palpatine know that Leia was going to keep Kylo from killing Rey? It seems that risking it otherwise would've been pretty dumb.

19.) If Luke was looking for a wayfinder with Lando, why didn't Anakin's ghost tell his son about Vader's wayfinder on Mustafar (the one that Kylo took)?

20.) What was Palpatine hoping for when he was Snoke and put Rey was her knees at Kylo's mercy? Did Palps want Rey dead, or want Kylo to kill Snoke? Either way, how does that line up or make any sense?

21.) How did any aspect of Palpatine survive the DS2 explosion? Was the real him on Exogol the whole time?

22.) Where did Kylo find a functioning OT TIE Fighter to get off the Endor moon? And how did it have a hyperdrive?

I got carried away (sorry :lol). I have to stop there since it's kickoff time. But, a-dev, if you want more, I could probably come up with another twenty. TROS is the nonsense gift that keeps on giving. :lol

I admit that some of these are very minor and trivial (and perfectly forgivable); they're no different than the same type of nonsense in every SW movie. But some are true head-scratchers that become plot holes. In totality, TROS is in a league of its own when it comes to curious logic.

Wow. This brain is doing all the thinking for me.:clap

That's the big question. I'm quite certain it will fade into Solo status for you by next year and beyond. Its really not good overall, and simply "the latest and final chapter" is all it really has going for it.

Imagine how it will play over time. With RO, a lot of people here weren't sure what to make of it -- it has this amazing finale but no one liked the characters much, it was the first one-off, everyone died, awkward OT plug-ins, etc. Yet, over time for most, people came around to why its so good especially after multiple viewings when you settle in -- there's nothing to derail your enjoyment: it has no blatant logic problems, no truly cringey moments, no undoing something that proceeded it. It flows like a great song.

TROS on the other hand, I believe its flaws will simply become more apparent with time and become more obnoxious and difficult to ignore. There's no outstanding set-piece that is that great that you want to experience again and again like that RO climactic end battle. Its full of moments followed by bumps to disregard. It flows like an OK song; there's a beat you like and a section you enjoy but then there's that chorus that's pretty bad that plays again and again. Kids will love it because its fast and busy, colorful and loud... just like Jedi was in its day. It's the ST's 'greatest hits' much like Jedi was to the OT.

Even though I'm still sorta-kinda in the "had fun with some of it" and enjoyed pulpy-Palps to some degree, and feel like TROS is the best ST movie, this is a pretty good summation.:goodpost:


You know I'm a huge ANH advocate, but I'd have to say the RO finale battle trumps all Star Wars battles, even the trench run.

I still prefer the ROTJ final space battle.. It just has more "wow" moments IMO. Does the Asteroid chase count?? That's number 2 for me.

Yeah, even though I really do like the RO battle a lot, the ROTJ space battle itself I think has the edge in terms of clever bits/visuals (even characters - Ackbar > Raddus, Nien Numb > Favreau Raccoon) ship design (love the TIE interceptors, a-wings and b-wings, and not a huge fan of kinda meh ship designs like the battering ram ship and the lander shuttle in RO) and backdrop with DS vs "gate" thing, even though yeah ROTJ's battle is marred by the often silly-cringey shenanigans on Endor surface.

Another issue you have to take into account is the FX eras they were made in. It's sort of incredible that ROTJ vs RO could be kind of evenly matched given not just FX but also editing style and audience expectations of early 1980s to mid-late 2010s.

I do think you also have to credit originality - it's clear that the RO battle + planet surface incursion is sort of a remake of the ROTJ battle in many ways, replicating numerous key elements.
 
Going strictly off of memory...I feel as if RO gave you a better overview with some tight set-pieces (running the shield-gate, Y-Wing run on Star Destroyer which was later rammed, X-Wing run) whereas there was something more up close and personal about the ROTJ battle and I can't put my finger on why. I'll have to actually watch and compare them.

The ANH Trench Run is *still* suspenseful and tense to this day, must be because it was burned into my childhood memory.
 
I do think you also have to credit originality - it's clear that the RO battle + planet surface incursion is sort of a remake of the ROTJ battle in many ways, replicating numerous key elements.

It is the battle we wished we got in 1983, as several people here have put it. Of course the effects are better in 2016, and of course it is topping what had been done in 1983, but it does it so well and adds some genuine military "strategy" and suspense to an otherwise busy pinball machine of a battle in 1983.

AND RO gives us an extra middle ground battle: an atmospheric dogfight battle against fighters and walkers in the skies overhead besides the epic battle in space amongst star destroyers AND the battle in the "trees" between soldiers.

The ANH Trench Run is *still* suspenseful and tense to this day, must be because it was burned into my childhood memory.

My inner child will never forget that. Never. It will always mean more to me... but I still have to give it to RO. Besides, the ANH trench run is more like a small assault (like in RO on that rainy platform) as opposed to a massive space battle.

ROTJ has the distinction to finally give audiences the ultimate space spectacle that the name "Star Wars" promised.

Clearly RO has the advantage of time. If intent was the finish line, then ROTJ would win. I guess my finish line here is in realization.
 
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You have to watch it again. And again. I'm quite certain it will win you over in time as you and I have similar tastes, just different nostalgic eras to draw from. It will never "beat" ROTJ because that is a seminal film for you clearly... but I think you will come to relish the last 40 minutes of RO.

I think I might sound like I am coming down on RO a little bit too hard.. I love RO. Its been a bit since I watched it. TLJ really ruined all things SW for me for the last two years and other than one viewing of SOLO I had not watched anything SW until the Mandalorian and then I watched ANH with the kids and the two ST films the week before the new movie.

It is a film I thought got better with repeat viewings and its really well made and one of the best looking SW films. I do wish the characters were a little stonger but as I said they did get better with repeat viewings.

I just think there are some great shots in ROTJ... But having said that I really cant remember any of the space battle in RO :lol

Ive seen it 4 times now... I just don't remember any stand out moments.. But it has been almost 2 years.. Sounds like I'm due for another viewing :)
 
You're not wrong, but we were comparing TFA and TLJ fights, so HUH????

Ah yeah, well I had to stop posting because I got interrupted.

My point was the TFA fight in the snow to me was way more intense than the TLJ over choreographed dance.

I actually liked the TFA battle slightly more than ROS simply because the snow works so well with the sabers.



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Wait is RO?s greatness in question?

What they did in one film is outstanding.

I actually consider RO the best of Disney SW to date.




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Ah yeah, well I had to stop posting because I got interrupted.

My point was the TFA fight in the snow to me was way more intense than the TLJ over choreographed dance.

I actually liked the TFA battle slightly more than ROS simply because the snow works so well with the sabers.

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I agree with you about the snowy setting for the TFA fight. I actually watched both movies back-to-back on TV today, and that pregnant pause didn't bother me quite as much as I remembered it, as Kylo seemed to prefer teaching her over simply killing her (so he may have thought she was considering his offer). But the TLJ fight also didn't seem quite as choreographed, mainly due to Kylo's unpredictable/unorthodox fighting style. I still prefer that one, but its advantage isn't as clear-cut as I recalled.

I didn't think about it this way before but Kylo's phrasing in the TFA fight could be seen as foreshadowing of his betrayal of Snoke in TLJ, as he said he wanted to teach Rey the ways of the Force, not turn her to the Dark Side.
 
I'm watching TLJ on TNT and my dad just saw Snoke get cut in half. :lol

He's like, "What happened to him?"

Me - "That guy cut him with the lightsaber."

"That wasn't very nice of him"

Did you notice the continuity error when Rose slammed into Finn's fighter on Crait? Twice they showed her looking at Finn out the right side of of her fighter (so she was on his left), then she slammed into him from his right. :slap
 
Ok finally had some free time so I watched:

RO 3rd act on my 80? 3D, absolutely stunning!

TLJ Praetorian lightsaber battle on my Quantum X then on my 80? 3D, absolutely stunning!

I?m happy lol



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