Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Khev]

I know you?re kidding but it?s crazy-pills to me that this where we are when talking about Luke Skywalker.

To be fair, even LFL and Leland Chee got nothing when it comes to explaining why exactly Luke dies in TLJ.

But hey - it's only the death of Luke Skywalker.

Yeah, I can see why people are up in arms over Luke's "death" but since TLJ wasn't the final word on Luke Skywalker and I loved how he was handled in TROS I am able to just shrug my shoulders at what RJ did in TLJ. At least his TLJ death was poetic and beautifully filmed, even if it was odd and confusing at the same time, lol.

Since his Spirit was able to help Rey defeat Palpatine on multiple levels (stopped her from destroying his saber, gave her Leia's saber, provided her a ship, and then both encouraged her verbally and helped blast Palpatine with the other Jedi, damn he really did quite a bit actually) I am able to write off his TLJ death as "Ben Kenobi-ish" and serving a higher purpose.

Did I have this mindset prior to TROS? Not particularly, but that's the power of sticking the landing in satisfying fashion.

 

[Khev]

Well, it's tricky. Because stormtroopers are toxic white males. But as soon as they mutiny or join the resistance, they become POC.

Not all of them.

Okay technically not a "Storm" trooper but close enough.

 

[TaliBane]

Yeah, I can see why people are up in arms over Luke's "death" but since TLJ wasn't the final word on Luke Skywalker and I loved how he was handled in TROS I am able to just shrug my shoulders at what RJ did in TLJ. At least his TLJ death was poetic and beautifully filmed, even if it was odd and confusing at the same time, lol.

Since his Spirit was able to help Rey defeat Palpatine on multiple levels (stopped her from destroying his saber, gave her Leia's saber, provided her a ship, and then both encouraged her verbally and helped blast Palpatine with the other Jedi, damn he really did quite a bit actually) I am able to write off his TLJ death as "Ben Kenobi-ish" and serving a higher purpose.

Did I have this mindset prior to TROS? Not particularly, but that's the power of sticking the landing in satisfying fashion.

Just not Luke's hair in TROS. Handled well I mean.

And you put death in quotations. Death in the age of branded IP.

As Bob Iger said in his brief ST cameo - "Let the past die, kill it you have to, especially if it's what Twitter wants. But no branded character is ever truly gone."

 

[Khev]

Yes death in quotes since it's handled a little differently when it comes to Jedi. And yes I noticed Luke's Fabio hair in TROS too, lol.

 

[TaliBane]

Not all of them.

Okay technically not a "Storm" trooper but close enough.

He worked for the Empire - fighting, killing and bombing? Huh, I don't recall seeing that in the movie.

I did see him doing a lot of running around, semi comedically, wearing an Imperial uniform though. Kind of like in ANH.

The way Disney usually handles it, they mutiny on their very first day, before that first pull of the trigger. Which I believe usually qualifies as a lack of nerve, not mutiny. But it is oh-so believable and real world relevant and I'm sure touches many people out there.

These are the "Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman" stormtrooper-virgin mutineers.

 

[TaliBane]

Yes death in quotes since it's handled a little differently when it comes to Jedi. And yes I noticed Luke's Fabio hair in TROS too, lol.

It had a kind of a straight vermicelli pasta pad look.

And yeah, I get that Jedis "don't die," but they are from then on forever blue, which makes them harder to look at, though it doesn't affect what they can do in the story anymore. So quotes are more than appropriate.

 

[Khev]

Well to be fair I don't think showing young Han Solo blowing away terrified insurgents trying to defend their homes would be appropriate for an all ages fairy tale, no matter which studio was in charge. Rogue One crossed into that territory and more than a few people considered it "off brand" as a result. I wonder how many Alliance allies Cassian will murder in his upcoming series, lol.

 

[TaliBane]

Well to be fair I don't think showing young Han Solo blowing away terrified insurgents trying to defend their homes would be appropriate for an all ages fairy tale, no matter which studio was in charge. Rogue One crossed into that territory and more than a few people considered it "off brand" as a result. I wonder how many Alliance allies Cassian will murder in his upcoming series, lol.

It just becomes a bit meaningless, a cheat, if you say it but never show it, or even hint at it, and then never bother to even show any impact on the character. Like at all. Finn the trained killer is happy go lucky.

Maybe it was proximity to the Vietnam war, but ANH and ESB rarely shied away from brutality - people rarely questioned what was appropriate for an all ages fairy tale back then maybe. But it's one of the things that has made the OT mean something - and endure.

I mean one of the first scenes of the OT is Vader crushing a man's thorat and throwing him against a wall. The thing you are singling out here is one of the core problems with the ST, one of the reasons it will be forgotten.

 

[ironwez20]

Well, it's tricky. Because stormtroopers are toxic white males. But as soon as they mutiny or join the resistance, they become POC.

That's why the resistance is super diverse, majority POC - like as if Twitter voted on who got in - but the FO is like 95-98% white male (the FO is not above tokenism.)

It's just a thing that we don't dwell on. So it's been touched on, briefly, because you asked, and now we move on.

But I saw a black guy and a few girls in the FO?

 

[Wor-Gar]

Cassian killing that loud-mouth whiner was great.

Also, Baze shooting the already-downed stormtrooper execution style in the head was nice to see. Such is war.

 

[Wor-Gar]

But I saw a black guy and a few girls in the FO?

Future mutineers.

 

[Khev]

In thinking it through a little further I'll revise my comments. Showing Han blowing away innocents and then becoming good wouldn't be out of line in and of itself, just out of line for a character that really has never been tainted by that kind of darkness. Even growing up knowing his off screen backstory of him temporarily being an Imperial I never really pictured him killing "good guys."

It just becomes a bit meaningless, a cheat, if you say it but never show it, or even hint at it, and then never bother to even show any impact on the character. Like at all. Finn the trained killer is happy go lucky.

Maybe it was proximity to the Vietnam war, but ANH and ESB rarely shied away from brutality - people rarely questioned what was appropriate for an all ages fairy tale back then maybe. But it's one of the things that has made the OT mean something - and endure.

Actually I would say that the ST did anything but cheat in that regard. I'm not talking about Finn of course but rather Ben Solo. There's your "Solo" character who starts out on the wrong side right there. And the perpetrator of the arguably the most disturbing murder of the entire Saga, is then *deeply* impacted across three entire films, and then does forsake his dark path in favor of the light. I can easy see such a ballsy path for a main character keeping the ST in people's minds for decades to come.

Giving Finn the exact same path would be redundant and come across as a pale imitation IMO.

In short I think they've quite well in balancing fun and adventure with dark character journeys and brutalities of war.

 

[Khev]

Future mutineers.

 

[Captain Clown]

Spoiler

 

[SvenDokki]

Neither Kenobi or Luke are looking to redeem their opponents and they both explicitly say so.

You sure about that? I?m not talking about movie lines. I?m talking about the expressions on their face in the last moments.

 

[jye4ever]

Or... that you can watch people with ("hey Luke.... look at that creepy little green guy watching you from over there! Oh wait he just disappeared.")

Well to be fair I don't think showing young Han Solo blowing away terrified insurgents trying to defend their homes would be appropriate for an all ages fairy tale, no matter which studio was in charge. Rogue One crossed into that territory and more than a few people considered it "off brand" as a result. I wonder how many Alliance allies Cassian will murder in his upcoming series, lol.

Cassian and Rose Tico grandmother would make for a deadly assault team.

Cassian killing that loud-mouth whiner was great.

Also, Baze shooting the already-downed stormtrooper execution style in the head was nice to see. Such is war.

Two tubes should?ve been given a good kill or a good death.

But I saw a black guy and a few girls in the FO?

Asians too lol

Future mutineers.

lol

In thinking it through a little further I'll revise my comments. Showing Han blowing away innocents and then becoming good wouldn't be out of line in and of itself, just out of line for a character that really has never been tainted by that kind of darkness. Even growing up knowing his off screen backstory of him temporarily being an Imperial I never really pictured him killing "good guys."



Actually I would say that the ST did anything but cheat in that regard. I'm not talking about Finn of course but rather Ben Solo. There's your "Solo" character who starts out on the wrong side right there. And the perpetrator of the arguably the most disturbing murder of the entire Saga, is then *deeply* impacted across three entire films, and then does forsake his dark path in favor of the light. I can easy see such a ballsy path for a main character keeping the ST in people's minds for decades to come.

Giving Finn the exact same path would be redundant and come across as a pale imitation IMO.

In short I think they've quite well in balancing fun and adventure with dark character journeys and brutalities of war.

Poor Talibane my man is so happy hosting what he believes to be a perfect analysis party and then you just come crashing thru the wall like the Kool Aid man lol


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[Username]

Not discarded but lost. Along with Force Projection. Apparently going back to the written source of all teachings contained revelations that had *not* been fully passed down across all the generations. Possibly some ancient Jedi Council began censuring out the texts that taught abilities that could potentially kill you just by using them and therefore potentially valuable teachings got lost. If we go by Obi-Wan's speech that says the Jedi are "over a thousand generations" old then that's over *25,000* years.

I have no trouble accepting that certain writings would be lost over such an insane period of time. Come on ajp where's the fun in having 25,000 year old books show up in the films if nothing cool can be gleamed from them?

There's also the issue of the Jedi remaining stagnant the entire time Yoda was a master. Under normal lifespan Jedi, most creatures would be born and die within 150 years or so, but with Yoda, he probably taught almost every Jedi for the last 800 years or so(I'm not meaning every Jedi was his Padawan, just like in the classrooms we saw in AOTC), so he likely taught everything as he had been taught. We know from Jocasta Nu that they were incredibly staid in their thinking(If it's not in the archives, it doesn't exist), so it's easy to imagine the mere knowledge of certain force powers falling out of use or, more importantly, "new" force abilities remaining undiscovered because the Jedi had remained so unchanged in Yoda's tenure on the council.

 

[DiFabio]

Watched the OT with family this week.

Guess what?

Force projection is mentioned specifically by Yoda in ESB....

Yoda: ?this one, a long time have I watched, all his life, as he looked away, to the future, the horizon.....?

Yoda obviously was physically watching him somehow............from VERY far away.

Must have been some sort of projection/force skype.

BS

In the dialogue right before this he specifically mentions training Jedi for 800 years and how he had a council.

this one, a long time have I watched, all his life, as he looked away, to the future, the horizon

Could mean any one of his students in those 800 years, from Obi-Wan to Anakin himself. Before TLJ, you would never interrupt that he was watching Luke grow up. It was always meant to be interrupted as a student Yoda had that Luke relates to. Yoda even looks up to Ben as he says this and Ben is constantly reminding Yoda that he was once like Luke as well as a green, impatient youth.

And if I'm wrong and Yoda was somehow keeping tabs on him, then I'd chalk that up as is using foresight and sensing Luke's feelings in that moment, reading his heart and mind. In Empire Yoda IS watching him for a awhile before revealing himself. Luke tells him so much while in the guise of a crazy old creature. To think he projected himself at Lars Homestead and studied Luke is just absurd, and missing the point of the scene entirely. TLJ and ROS are a farce when it comes to time and space.

Lets not twist and warp the OT to fit the horrible sequels. I don't want Disney getting ideas of going back and tinkering with them even further after the damage sustained by the PT.

 

[YoNoSe]

You sure about that? I?m not talking about movie lines. I?m talking about the expressions on their face in the last moments.

Yes I’m sure. Even from the grave Kenobi encourages Luke to murder Vader, regardless of his facial expression.

 

[jye4ever]

BS

In the dialogue right before this he specifically mentions training Jedi for 800 years and how he had a council.

this one, a long time have I watched, all his life, as he looked away, to the future, the horizon

Could mean any one of his students in those 800 years, from Obi-Wan to Anakin himself. Before TLJ, you would never interrupt that he was watching Luke grow up. It was always meant to be interrupted as a student Yoda had that Luke relates to. Yoda even looks up to Ben as he says this and Ben is constantly reminding Yoda that he was once like Luke as well as a green, impatient youth.

And if I'm wrong and Yoda was somehow keeping tabs on him, then I'd chalk that up as is using foresight and sensing Luke's feelings in that moment, reading his heart and mind. In Empire Yoda IS watching him for a awhile before revealing himself. Luke tells him so much while in the guise of a crazy old creature. To think he projected himself at Lars Homestead and studied Luke is just absurd, and missing the point of the scene entirely. TLJ and ROS are a farce when it comes to time and space.

Lets not twist and warp the OT to fit the horrible sequels. I don't want Disney getting ideas of going back and tinkering with them even further after the damage sustained by the PT.

DiFabio...

DiFabio..........

You will go to the Freaks system.

There you will learn from Khev, the franchise master who instructed me.




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