Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER
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Keep in mind that sidelining Luke in favor of the new female Jedi (originally called "Kira") was done by Michael Arndt under George's watch. He was the one who famously said "anytime I tried to find a spot to introduce Luke into the story he just seemed to take over the movie." It was George's idea to have him in self-imposed exile on the island.
Now that doesn't mean that you have to agree with how Abrams, Kasdan, RJ, etc., fleshed out those concepts but the concepts still originated from George.
Here's an excellent breakdown of what we could have gotten had he not sold the company to Disney.
The only thing I like from George's original treatments were having a Darth Talon-esque villain. *Everything* else would have been decidedly worse, with the biggest irritation (for me) being him continuing to stray further and further away from his original OT-era ST plans.
Now obviously you can say that it doesn't matter because if you hate this ST and dismiss them what's the difference whether or not LFL produced George's new ST exactly as he wanted since worst case scenario you'd just dismiss that one too. Which would be fair enough but it does go to show just how difficult Disney's task was in bringing the best version of the ST to the big screen, when with SW you want to give the creatives just enough control to create something exciting and inspired but not so much control that they destroy their own creation in the process. And that applies to RJ, JJ, and even George himself.
Look at the films that George has most famously been "happy" with: ROTJ and the PT. Look at the ones that he is openly dismissive about or always wants to "fix": ANH, ESB, and the ST. I know which ones I prefer.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
I'd like to know what George's original idea was for episode 7. The ideas from that video seem to be after the PT. Those are evil George's plans. I saw an interview with Hamill from 1983 where he briefly talked about episode 7, and he said, "George has talked to me about working on the last trilogy at the turn of the century, but it wouldn't be on the same plane of existence." Then the interviewer said, "Sounds to me like you will be playing a father and there will be a Luke jr." Hamill smiles, "You're a very clever man." Anyway, I don't know what he meant by "plane of existence", but to me sounds like ghost Luke, like Obi Wan after he dies.
Yeah George was obviously just going to double down on his post-PT narrative with microscopic Whills and Darth Talon. Talon would have been cool but I'm guessing that it'd just be another TPM situation where you have this sweet villain in a movie that people hate. I think George had even indicated that he was going to direct them again. Yikes.
There's very little information about George's *original* Episode VII plans beyond what Gary Kurtz divulged about the entire original ST and Mark Hamill's brief comments in televised interviews way back when. From what we can infer from Kurtz' statements Episode VII would have involved young post-ROTJ Luke going off in search of his sister and maybe finding her by the end of that film.
Training with her (or maybe he trains her directly) in Episode VIII before they take on Palpatine in a final showdown in IX. That'd be my best guess.
There's very little information about George's *original* Episode VII plans beyond what Gary Kurtz divulged about the entire original ST and Mark Hamill's brief comments in televised interviews way back when. From what we can infer from Kurtz' statements Episode VII would have involved young post-ROTJ Luke going off in search of his sister and maybe finding her by the end of that film.
Training with her (or maybe he trains her directly) in Episode VIII before they take on Palpatine in a final showdown in IX. That'd be my best guess.
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I don't know how George would have done it in the end, nobody does...maybe not even George. If George's version happened on screen and sucked I would criticize that too. I care most about what I see on the screen, the rest is just interesting theory.
I typed in a much longer winded version initially but the above paragraph more concisely delivers how I feel about the "well George would have" defense of the ST.
Getter Dragon
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I have to disagree. Using the Lucas treatment would have resulted in a far more cohesive story-line with actual character arcs and not the botched rush-job we ended up with which has irreparably damaged the value of the brand (the PT had a story just badly executed, the ST had no planned story whatsoever).
Looks like the major story beats of the Lucas trilogy were the same as the ST, but with improvements such as the hero Kira Solo being an actual Skywalker that survives at the end, Luke kicking ass until Episode 9, interesting new Sith Lords like Talon, etc. The only bad thing I see is all the midichlorian/whills crap. Why Lucas is so obsessed with giving the force a biological explanation is baffling to me. This Disney trilogy was in desperate need of some of Lucas' weirdness.
I would also bet the farm Talon was dropped as the main villain due to Kennedy's toxic white feminist agenda.
You seemed to have missed my point. I literally stated that in your mind it might not matter if George's version was just as bad or worse. The point was the astronomical difficulty LFL had in negotiating the minefield of trying to extract the best ideas, presenting them in the best possible manner, and discarding the rest (no matter who came up with them.) I just think that that's worth noting. Obviously you can hate these films (or any imagined alternate films) but it's not like LFL had guaranteed successes on a silver platter that they pissed away, at least with regard to the story.
What they *did* have on a silver platter was fan goodwill which they *did* piss away with their sweeping public comments about fans being toxic, misogynist, and what have you. That 100% is on them and even though they seemingly recognized the damage to their own brand that they caused by this and tried to course correct it does seem to be too little too late for a lot of people with regard to TROS' release.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
Luke looking for another sister? So he had two?
You mean like "Syfo-Dias," the unexplained conception of Anakin, Padme inexplicably dying for no reason, completed abandoned character motivations like Anakin wanting to see all the stars and come back to free Tatooine slaves, Qui Gon learning how to become one with the Force *after* his death, and a ton of other half-baked story elements? I seriously doubt that so on that yes we disagree.
Now on that I definitely do agree.
No. Leia wasn't originally going to be his sister.
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So KK and company get a pass because their job was too difficult? If that is the case then clearly she was a poor choice for the job to begin with which has proven very true. I am not saying it was an easy job, but like any job if you fail you take the blame.
She sure didn't help herself by shoehorning in her agendas and relying on Star Wars creatives like RJ and the story group.
What are you talking about?
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that.
I really liked him as Ben Solo too, especially when fighting.
Yeah Driver's acting and charisma was off the charts in this film, both as Kylo and "Ben."
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
Oh, I see. Anyway, George's plan in that video is awful too. Particularly, having Han and Leia separated only to have them get back together. That is just lazy, uncreative writing. Undoing something that was previously established, only to do it again shows a lack of ideas, a cheap way to create conflict for the characters without really moving things forward in any significant way. I hate when sequels separate couples. It ruins the previous movies, only to retread old ground, so that the sequel can have some kind of small subplot. It's one of the reasons I don't like Ghostbuster 2. Soooo many sequels do it too, except Gremlins 2.
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Your previous post about how difficult a task the ST was for LFL.
Getter Dragon
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You are just listing plot holes (which TROS has every 30 seconds), but you cannot deny the PT had an overall plotline; something the ST did not. The fact I am using the Prequels as an example of better film making just goes to show how garbage these Disney SW movies are.
Disney & LFL have NO EXCUSE for this debacle. They had BILLIONS of dollars and the most creative people in the world at their disposal and still failed miserably.
Yes and my point stands. Difficult is difficult and worth noting. I never said anyone "gets a pass" to not deliver. And KK most certainly doesn't get a pass from me for her agenda driven crap which had no part in either version of the ST.
Thankfully that was mostly sidelined for TROS but I do think that the lesbian kiss was super lame. In the history of SW *no one* ever kisses except main characters. Luke and his sister, Han and Leia, Anakin and Padme, Han and Q'ira, Rey and Kylo. And the *only* characters to break that tradition are...two 10th tier lesbians? Give me a break. No, nothing agenda driven there.
The only thing it shows is your opinion. Which is fine but I can easily use the ST to show how poorly made the PT was.
Getter Dragon
Checklist Freak
The PT was complete trash. I'm saying the ST is what lies beneath it scraping the bottom of the dumpster. A preschooler could point out how poorly made the PT was. Comparing the ST to the PT is trying to decide which type of manure smells worse - doesn't matter they are both still ****. I don't see how any of that refutes my original point - PT had a planned story, ST did not.
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