Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

There's definitely some truth to that, lol. Yub nub.

But I'll happily enjoy RO, Solo, Mando and the ST while you guys pine for the "good old days" of the PT.

I actually think Kurtz was wrong for wanting to kill Han Solo and for the majority of ROTJ to be about the search for Han. I think Lucas did the right thing to make the search and rescue of Han into a concise sequence, which made the first act of ROTJ very memorable. A movie about searching for Han and Luke doing more training would be unnecessary, given that a time gap take care of it off screen. Having said that, having a second death star and Han doing nothing for the rest of the film wasn't good either, but at least Han being alive and staying alive provided a great first act and a happy ending that is more satisfying to watch than what Kurtz probably wanted. Kurtz clearly was on a darker path and Lucas had a lighter, more family friendly tone in mind which is better suited for a final film.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

My initial thought was to have him like the MCU Odin. A super powerful character (moreso than all the main heroes they'd introduce)

I never saw that Odin in the MCU. I remember Anthony Hopkins tho.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Kurtz clearly was on a darker path and Lucas had a lighter, more ....

...toy oriented ambition to make mega-bucks for himself and to expand his oasis in Marin County.

"I want Ewoks to replace the Teddy bear"... the ambitious mind at work.

 

[ZE_501]

My initial thought was to have him like the MCU Odin. A super powerful character (moreso than all the main heroes they'd introduce) but having him kept largely separated from the young adventurers due to the administrative duties of running a Jedi Order, galactic politics and so on.[...]

I could never see Luke as an administrator or political type. The closest I could come to the above would be to have him as a reclusive, meditative mentor.

I mean we never expected Yoda to leave Dagobah and whup Vader's ass in ESB, but the expectation is implicit with a character like Luke, so I've yet to find a satisfying way to keep him out of the main action.

And taxation of trade routes, don't forget those. People love that.

Wait...are Jedis unionized? That could be a thing...

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

...toy oriented ambition to make mega-bucks for himself and to expand his oasis in Marin County.

"I want Ewoks to replace the Teddy bear"... the ambitious mind at work.

Maybe, but it seems like Kurtz wanted to extend things past a trilogy, while Lucas wanted it to end with a third film. I can respect that. Ironically, had they made more movies, they would have sold more toys through out the 80's and early 90's, given that they would have continue to make SW films well into the late 80's. The SW toy line died after 83, along with Lucas' domination of the Teddy bear. Lucas then went on to become a teddy bear himself.

 

[ZE_501]

I actually think Kurtz was wrong for wanting to kill Han Solo and for the majority of ROTJ to be about the search for Han. I think Lucas did the right thing to make the search and rescue of Han into a concise sequence, which made the first act of ROTJ very memorable. A movie about searching for Han and Luke doing more training would be unnecessary, given that a time gap take care of it off screen. Having said that, having a second death star and Han doing nothing for the rest of the film wasn't good either, but at least Han being alive and staying alive provided a great first act and a happy ending that is more satisfying to watch than what Kurtz probably wanted. Kurtz clearly was on a darker path and Lucas had a lighter, more family friendly tone in mind which is better suited for a final film.

I agree with all of that.

I don't think a second Death Star was the very worst thing they could have done. Ewoks and Han's treatment on the other hand...that could have been better.

I've never given an alternate ending for ROTJ much thought. A final assault on Coruscant may have accomplished the same story beats though.

A strike team trying to take out the planetary defense shield on the surface with a climactic space battle raging above would still work, no second Death Star needed.

 

[Wor-Gar]

had they made more movies, they would have sold more toys through out the 80's and early 90's,

Instead, the man who gave us Indiana Jones and Star Wars gave us... Howard the Duck and Willow as his swan songs for the 80's.

 

[ZE_501]

I suppose...for the ST...we could have had Luke training new Jedi and maybe bogged down with the responsibility of keeping them from the Dark Side and anger stoked by First Order attacks inciting a new war.

A direct and devastating assault on his new Jedi Temple might have him come out of retirement to hunt down the Snoke separately, samurai style while his brightest students under the command of people like Han and Leia took on the First Order military and whoever Snoke's apprentice(s) were.

You could have two equally important but parallel plot threads, giving new characters a chance to be mentored by Han/Leia and shine on their own, while Luke goes off on his loner hunt for the shadowy and super-evil being behind it all.

Point is, you can't have him fighting alongside anyone, not at this point in his character's timeline. He'd need to be a warrior monk, and need to take on extremely dangerous and lonely missions like Gandalf in LOTR.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Or they could have played Luke against a naive new hero (Rey) where he is not recognizable to everyone and plays like a new Obi-Wan or Yoda. Luke didn't know about Obi-Wan Kenobi or Yoda from the old wars, even though he likely would have heard tales... something they played on with Luke in the ST. But they could have easily went with the "crazy old hermit" bit again and only the audience is wiser, waiting for the hero to learn the truth about his crotchety mentor.

 

[ZE_501]

Or they could have played Luke against a naive new hero (Rey) where he is not recognizable to everyone and plays like a new Obi-Wan or Yoda. Luke didn't know about Obi-Wan Kenobi or Yoda from the old wars, even though he likely would have heard tales... something they played on with Luke in the ST. But they could have easily went with the "crazy old hermit" bit again and only the audience is wiser, waiting for the hero to learn the truth about his crotchety mentor.

This is actually why I didn't initially have a problem with his tossing the saber over his shoulder. He could have acted all kinds of crazy to take the measure of Rey before training her and it would have made sense. But then I found out he was a strung-out Sea-Cow Milk Junkie.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Kurtz's TLJ would have been about the search for Luke's neck.

 

[Khev]

Yes all good ideas. I only mentioned "administrative duties" (assuming they showed a bustling Jedi Order that would require such duties) as an excuse to give a valid reason why he could remain off screen until otherwise needed, not that they should actually show him in boring council meetings or what have you.

That said he was perfect in TROS IMO which allowed me to settle back into my initial impressions of him in TLJ when I was viewing his actions in a more favorable light.

 

[jye4ever]

TROS island Luke mocking his TLJ island Luke would?ve been even more epic had he knocked the sea cow off the cliff with the rising Xwing lol






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[ZE_501]

TROS island Luke mocking his TLJ island Luke would?ve been even more epic had he knocked the sea cow off the cliff with the rising Xwing lol






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He shoulda cut it open and stuck Rey inside it. Like poetry.

 

[pixletwin]

Lucas never understood what it is about Star Wars that was so appealing.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

TROS island Luke mocking his TLJ island Luke would?ve been even more epic had he knocked the sea cow off the cliff with the rising Xwing lol






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Or burning it like Keaton burned the devil guy in Batman Returns.

Cut to Luke like...

 

[The Buffinator]

Or they could have played Luke against a naive new hero (Rey) where he is not recognizable to everyone and plays like a new Obi-Wan or Yoda. Luke didn't know about Obi-Wan Kenobi or Yoda from the old wars, even though he likely would have heard tales... something they played on with Luke in the ST. But they could have easily went with the "crazy old hermit" bit again and only the audience is wiser, waiting for the hero to learn the truth about his crotchety mentor.

Somehow I think that after all the criticism of TFA being a rehash of ANH, that novel idea wouldn't exactly have been universally praised here.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I could see Luke speaking backwards too.

 

[TaliBane]

TROS is only barely going to pass Rogue One, both domestically and worldwide, and end up with almost $100m less than TLJ domestically and around $200m less worldwide.

The totals for the ST will likely be:

TFA - $248m opening/$936m domestic/$2B worldwide,
TLJ - $220m opening/$620m domestic/$1.3B worldwide,
TROS - $177m opening/$530m domestic/$1.1B worldwide

(Incredibly, TROS is only just barely going to pass Joker's worldwide total - which no one would have believed six months ago)

TROS is basically going to be slightly above RO across the board:

RO - $155m opening/$523m domestic/$1.05B worldwide

As many had paralleled TLJ's performance to ESB (as a normal "middle trilogy film drop"), here is a domestic comparison of the OT initial releases, even if yeah, a VERY different BO era to today:

ANH: $307m
ESB: $209m
ROTJ: $253m

But if that OT/ST parallel were to be correct, and the TFA/TLJ drop was a normal phenomenon, then TROS should have grossed $1.65B worldwide as the "end of the trilogy" climax (though TROS was sold, and to some degree written, as both end of trilogy AND end of the 9 film saga, which should have in theory increased its appeal.)

My feeling all along was that SW always relies heavily on what came before: TFA was huge because it was a return to heavy OT-esque story/visuals after the trauma of the PT, and after a SW 10 year hiatus, and the film delivered big on nostalgia (copying ANH and mining OT warm-fuzzies) TLJ did pretty well because its predecessor TFA was popular. And TROS hasn't lived up to that OT parallel (where the third film lands halfway between the first and second films' BO) because TLJ was so incredibly divisive.

So that ESB/TLJ BO parallel (and some even tried to argue there was a "backlash" against ESB also) was garbage all along.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

The PT

TPM - $924
AOTC - $649 - Yikes
ROTS - $849