Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[JAWS]

I knew this movie was going to make less than TLJ. I'll be surprised if it passes a billion to be honest. The domestic box office haul is half of TFA. Kennedy really did kill off half the fandom with her incompetance.

She sure did... Even though I liked TROS and it helped salvage the other two movies for me.. Man did she just fumble the ball the entire time.. Disney deserves some of the blame as I think TFA's soft reboot was the wrong decision (even though the box office say different) but story wise it was a bore... TLJ was a giant mess and TROS had a huge challenge in front of it.. And for me it somehow succeeded.... But it did it by being a big mess of ideas all stuffed into a 2 hour and 20 min film.. There are enough things going on that it could have been two 2.5 hour films..

But for me it was fun and enjoyable... But for many its not...

We have Kennedy and to thank for this mess.. Cant wait for her to go and start producing other projects that she understands better and cares about more or just retire

 

[JAWS]

I'm pretty sure Disney has made a lot more than 4.5 billion since buying SW, so I have to disagree.

This is true.. And now that the SW park at Disney has the main ride open I guess things are picking up there. Friend of mine said it was really cool... I still have no intrest in going

 

[Getter Dragon]

I'm pretty sure Disney has made a lot more than 4.5 billion since buying SW, so I have to disagree.

It's highly unlikely they have recouped the investment yet considering all the expenditures vs net profit. Plus they did pay most of that in Disney shares to George. Its the shareholders that are losing out.

We have Kennedy and to thank for this mess.. Cant wait for her to go and start producing other projects that she understands better and cares about more or just retire

She should go back to the only thing she was ever good at... fetching coffee for Spielberg.

 

[TaliBane]

Holy crap Clown is right they really do look alike!

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Jye's best photoshop yet.

Star Wars is definitely not worth the 4.5 billion Disney paid for it now. If I were a majority share holder I would be demanding Kennedy's termination effective immediately.

Yeah, given this is a sort of "end of phase one" moment I wonder what the accounting is so far for Star Wars at Disney. After TFA it seemed like MCU level - now it's more like Winnie the Pooh level.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'm pretty sure Disney has made a lot more than 4.5 billion since buying SW, so I have to disagree.

I would really love to know the actual calculation.

 

[a-dev]

You can't do this to me. YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I'VE SACRIFICED?!!

 

[Darth Madden]

Star Wars is no longer worth the 4.5 billion Disney paid for it. If I were a majority share holder I would be demanding Kennedy's termination effective immediately.

They cleared that a long time ago. Heck, the merchandise alone probably cleared that.

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[Username]

There's definitely some truth to that, lol. Yub nub.

But I'll happily enjoy RO, Solo, Mando and the ST while you guys pine for the "good old days" of the PT.

Lol.
This is just my own opinion, because i know you guys all seem to loathe the PT, but here goes:
I love the PT because it pretty much tells a cohesive story(When taken as one narrative, and you try to ignore the podrace ad Jar-Jar. And the really pitiful love talk in EPII).
We know, from the OT where it needs to end. Anakin needs to turn evil, and Palpatine needs to be in charge of the empire. I just like the tale it tells. Jedi at the height of their powers(And hubris), a hungry Sith lord, ready to achieve power, but knowing that trying to fight to the top won't work, and that far more subtle means need to be used.
Although it's far far away from being Mamet or Scorsese(And let's be fair, neither was the OT), we see a Republic that, while not strictly evil per-se, is bloated with bureaucracy enough that a skilled political tactician can manipulate them and pull the strings to get into power. All the while, very skilfully manoeuvring his only real enemies far away from him, surrounded by an army of troops loyal only to him.
I know a lot of people mock the taxation of galactic trade routes storylines. And i also know that everyone here knows these movies back to front and inside out, so i am not telling anyone anything they don't know.
I love the fact that the entire time we, the audience(Like an episode of Columbo), know exactly who the baddies are, and the good guys never seem to be able to work it out. And they pay the ultimate price for that.
Star Wars is such a rich universe, and i am often amazed with the visuals. So much going on in the background of every shot.
I grew up with the OT in my life the whole time(Being born only a year before it started, so i have always been aware of SW), so i love it all.
I can understand people being disappointed with the direction of the PT(And i respect the opinions of a lot of you guys on here), even though i love it all(Except the parts mentioned above). I myself don't find a lot to redeem Solo. And i have tried a few times. It hits a lot of beats but still misses the mark for me. But i still keep trying to "get it". So i assume that's what's happening with a lot of you on the PT.
But...
Those of you on here who don't, could you give me a quick three paragraph(One per episode), outline of what you would have done? A quick outline of what would have happened in your idealised version of the PT?
Thanks in advance for those who take the time to do it.

 

[ironwez20]

Rots will forever **** on the ST. Bad dialogue and all

 

[TaliBane]

They cleared that a long time ago. Heck, the merchandise alone probably cleared that.

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It's an interesting discussion. They have probably spent $8+ billion all up (including each movie with a negative cost of $325-400m, Mando's maybe $150m for Season 1 and Galaxy's Edge cost $1B) on the SW brand since 2012 and the movies have taken in about $5.5B in total so Disney probably received about $3B from theatrical (they negotiated a slightly higher take from theater owners than the normal 45%.) Mando surely must be a primary driver for Disney+ but is harder to account for.

Since the boom of TFA, Disney has been reporting slipping SW merchandise sales for several years now, in some cases quite strongly down from the peak of $700m in sales the year of TFA. Disney doesn't disclose what percentage it takes in on merch, but it's between 6% and 10% of the yearly gross (so if a property sells $1B in merch, Disney receives $60-100m in royalties.) I seem to recall it was down about 40% by the time of TLJ.

Not sure how all that balances up, but SW has not been anything close to what Marvel has been, bought for the same $4B price and only 3 years earlier.

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Looks like Vader misgendered zir and paid the price for triggering.

 

[SvenDokki]

My god, that is awesome. They need to make this movie.

Agreed. It would blow the rest of the Star Wars saga away.

 

[jye4ever]

You can't do this to me. YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I'VE SACRIFICED?!!

Holy crap lol


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[Getter Dragon]

They cleared that a long time ago. Heck, the merchandise alone probably cleared that.

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No way they made 4.5 billion net profit on just merch sales. That is not how this business works.

 

[ZE_501]

[...]
Those of you on here who don't, could you give me a quick three paragraph(One per episode), outline of what you would have done? A quick outline of what would have happened in your idealised version of the PT?
Thanks in advance for those who take the time to do it.

Oh man...years ago I did that very thing somewhere on this board. I only remember some sketchy parts of it. Can't be found at this point, but maybe I have it somewhere. Still working out how I would have done the ST.

 

[jye4ever]

For starters I wouldn?t start with a 10 year old Anakin what benefits were there doing that....none!


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[ZE_501]

For starters I wouldn?t start with a 10 year old Anakin what benefits were there doing that....none!


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Yeah...I think I had the Jedi characterized a bit differently, and Anakin in my treatment was an extremely talented young pilot Obi Wan met by chance.

 

[The Buffinator]

Lol.
This is just my own opinion, because i know you guys all seem to loathe the PT, but here goes:
I love the PT because it pretty much tells a cohesive story(When taken as one narrative, and you try to ignore the podrace ad Jar-Jar. And the really pitiful love talk in EPII).
We know, from the OT where it needs to end. Anakin needs to turn evil, and Palpatine needs to be in charge of the empire. I just like the tale it tells. Jedi at the height of their powers(And hubris), a hungry Sith lord, ready to achieve power, but knowing that trying to fight to the top won't work, and that far more subtle means need to be used.
Although it's far far away from being Mamet or Scorsese(And let's be fair, neither was the OT), we see a Republic that, while not strictly evil per-se, is bloated with bureaucracy enough that a skilled political tactician can manipulate them and pull the strings to get into power. All the while, very skilfully manoeuvring his only real enemies far away from him, surrounded by an army of troops loyal only to him.
I know a lot of people mock the taxation of galactic trade routes storylines. And i also know that everyone here knows these movies back to front and inside out, so i am not telling anyone anything they don't know.
I love the fact that the entire time we, the audience(Like an episode of Columbo), know exactly who the baddies are, and the good guys never seem to be able to work it out. And they pay the ultimate price for that.
Star Wars is such a rich universe, and i am often amazed with the visuals. So much going on in the background of every shot.
I grew up with the OT in my life the whole time(Being born only a year before it started, so i have always been aware of SW), so i love it all.
I can understand people being disappointed with the direction of the PT(And i respect the opinions of a lot of you guys on here), even though i love it all(Except the parts mentioned above). I myself don't find a lot to redeem Solo. And i have tried a few times. It hits a lot of beats but still misses the mark for me. But i still keep trying to "get it". So i assume that's what's happening with a lot of you on the PT.
But...
Those of you on here who don't, could you give me a quick three paragraph(One per episode), outline of what you would have done? A quick outline of what would have happened in your idealised version of the PT?
Thanks in advance for those who take the time to do it.

OK first off, my apologies, because this wasn't what you asked for...

To be blunt, I would have preferred if the PT never happened at all. Sure there were some excellent moments and a few memorable characters, but after the OT I wanted to see where they would take the story next, not see the past. And by next I mean immediately following RoTJ, not 30 or 40 years later. IMO there are three primary reasons for why making the PT was a mistake. First, there was really no suspense with respect to the main characters, because (as you've indicated) we already knew who was going to live on and who wasn't. Every time Obi-Wan or Anakin had a lightsaber battle against someone or was in a perilous situation, you knew they'd survive. Secondly, (what I feel was the biggest mistake of all) it demystified the Jedi Order. Showing them as part of the bureaucracy and being duped by Palpatine time and again with nary a clue was irksome to me, as was their less than brilliant military strategies. Seeing this made one wonder what all the fuss was about with respect to Luke becoming a Jedi. Finally, CH just didn't work as Anakin for me. They needed a better actor, or at least someone who made the character more likeable prior to his descent into darkness. Without that connection to the audience, it made his seduction decidedly less tragic than it should have been, not to mention retroactively cheapening Luke's efforts to return him to the light. "There's still good in him". Really? After the PT, I wasn't sure there was any there to begin with.

 

[Khev]

TROS is only barely going to pass Rogue One, both domestically and worldwide, and end up with almost $100m less than TLJ domestically and around $200m less worldwide.

The totals for the ST will likely be:

TFA - $248m opening/$936m domestic/$2B worldwide,
TLJ - $220m opening/$620m domestic/$1.3B worldwide,
TROS - $177m opening/$530m domestic/$1.1B worldwide

(Incredibly, TROS is only just barely going to pass Joker's worldwide total - which no one would have believed six months ago)

TROS is basically going to be slightly above RO across the board:

RO - $155m opening/$523m domestic/$1.05B worldwide

As many had paralleled TLJ's performance to ESB (as a normal "middle trilogy film drop"), here is a domestic comparison of the OT initial releases, even if yeah, a VERY different BO era to today:

ANH: $307m
ESB: $209m
ROTJ: $253m

But if that OT/ST parallel were to be correct, and the TFA/TLJ drop was a normal phenomenon, then TROS should have grossed $1.65B worldwide as the "end of the trilogy" climax (though TROS was sold, and to some degree written, as both end of trilogy AND end of the 9 film saga, which should have in theory increased its appeal.)

My feeling all along was that SW always relies heavily on what came before: TFA was huge because it was a return to heavy OT-esque story/visuals after the trauma of the PT, and after a SW 10 year hiatus, and the film delivered big on nostalgia (copying ANH and mining OT warm-fuzzies) TLJ did pretty well because its predecessor TFA was popular. And TROS hasn't lived up to that OT parallel (where the third film lands halfway between the first and second films' BO) because TLJ was so incredibly divisive.

So that ESB/TLJ BO parallel (and some even tried to argue there was a "backlash" against ESB also) was garbage all along.

Yeah enough can't be said about the "Rian Johnson factor." He alone guaranteed that there will never be direct parallels in performance between the ST and the two Lucas trilogies.

TLJ is 10 times better than AOTC and yet TLJ is hated 10 times *more* than AOTC. All because of RJ. If that idiot had just said "I'm sad to see that so many were disappointed with the direction we took the story and characters in TLJ. But have faith because we love these characters as much as you do and there is a plan." Then I've got to believe that that would have caused 90% of the naysayers to wait out the next couple years to see how everything turned out.

But him lashing out at fans directly for months on end, belittling and mocking their concerns just fanned the flames of a burning hatred that continues for many to this day. In fact after Solo showed that SW was not invincible I suspected that TROS might be lucky to clear $750 million worldwide. It's a credit to that film's quality that so many who stayed away from Solo are watching, and enjoying, the final chapter of the Saga.

 

[Khev]

OK first off, my apologies, because this wasn't what you asked for...

To be blunt, I would have preferred if the PT never happened at all. Sure there were some excellent moments and a few memorable characters, but after the OT I wanted to see where they would take the story next, not see the past. And by next I mean immediately following RoTJ, not 30 or 40 years later. IMO there are three primary reasons for why making the PT was a mistake. First, there was really no suspense with respect to the main characters, because (as you've indicated) we already knew who was going to live on and who wasn't. Every time Obi-Wan or Anakin had a lightsaber battle against someone or was in a perilous situation, you knew they'd survive. Secondly, (what I feel was the biggest mistake of all) it demystified the Jedi Order. Showing them as part of the bureaucracy and being duped by Palpatine time and again with nary a clue was irksome to me, as was their less than brilliant military strategies. Seeing this made one wonder what all the fuss was about with respect to Luke becoming a Jedi. Finally, CH just didn't work as Anakin for me. They needed a better actor, or at least someone who made the character more likeable prior to his descent into darkness. Without that connection to the audience, it made his seduction decidedly less tragic than it should have been, not to mention retroactively cheapening Luke's efforts to return him to the light. "There's still good in him". Really? After the PT, I wasn't sure there was any there to begin with.

I'm really glad that Disney has created most of their SW films in a "you decide if you want these to sync with the PT or not" approach. You really can just watch the unaltered OT and then go right into the ST without any need for the PT at all. I'm glad they didn't show Jedi ghosts helping Rey. I mean let's be honest after thousands of generations of Jedi it would have been silly if the *only* Jedi to appear were just five that we recognized from the PT. It's not like Qui Gon or Mace Windu would have meant anything more to Rey than thousands of other equally powerful Jedi. So they would have appeared literally as a wink to the audience and would have not made any sense story-wise. Just hearing a cacophony of voices was much better IMO.

But also by not showing PT Jedi it doesn't cause confusion for any viewers who didn't watch the PT, which is cool. If you've seen the PT then you recognize the voices and if you haven't no big. So it works both ways.

 

[a-dev]

OK first off, my apologies, because this wasn't what you asked for...

To be blunt, I would have preferred if the PT never happened at all. Sure there were some excellent moments and a few memorable characters, but after the OT I wanted to see where they would take the story next, not see the past. And by next I mean immediately following RoTJ, not 30 or 40 years later. IMO there are three primary reasons for why making the PT was a mistake. First, there was really no suspense with respect to the main characters, because (as you've indicated) we already knew who was going to live on and who wasn't. Every time Obi-Wan or Anakin had a lightsaber battle against someone or was in a perilous situation, you knew they'd survive. Secondly, (what I feel was the biggest mistake of all) it demystified the Jedi Order. Showing them as part of the bureaucracy and being duped by Palpatine time and again with nary a clue was irksome to me, as was their less than brilliant military strategies. Seeing this made one wonder what all the fuss was about with respect to Luke becoming a Jedi. Finally, CH just didn't work as Anakin for me. They needed a better actor, or at least someone who made the character more likeable prior to his descent into darkness. Without that connection to the audience, it made his seduction decidedly less tragic than it should have been, not to mention retroactively cheapening Luke's efforts to return him to the light. "There's still good in him". Really? After the PT, I wasn't sure there was any there to begin with.

My response to point A (already knowing the outcome for these characters and therefore no suspense) would be that it could still have at least been engaging if it had been done well. My response to point B (demystifying the Jedi Order) would be that it could still have worked if George didn't make them look like complete idiots. My response to point C (the failure to make Anakin a compelling character with a plausible transition from good to evil) - well, again, it could still have worked if George's writing and directing abilities went beyond just the broad strokes.

And maybe it needed a better actor in the role but I'm not willing to place all the blame on Christensen on account of the other factors. After-all some known great actors in the PT delivered probably career-worst performances with George's direction and dialogue.

The real tragedy of the PT is not in the story it told where it belonged, the tragedy is that those movies could have been great (and enhanced the OT in the process) but instead they were abominable and only enhanced the OT by being so crap by comparison.