Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

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This is preposterous and impossible to implement... yet the simplest of explanations to justify anything.

First, does the Force work on a perfectly balanced scale? Everything in the universe must have equal weight? So wasn't it out of balance when Ben and Yoda died but Vader and Emperor were alive? And what about the Death Star instantly reducing Alderaan to ash -- somewhere in the galaxy, did an entire planet spring to life to balance the universe?

How does one balance the Force without embracing equal evil into the world?

And does the Force work on a human time scale as well? I always envisioned that you could have centuries of evil rule because the Force would only have to balance that with centuries of good at some point. But living during the "evil period" a mere human would perceive only evil in his world. How come the Force works so quickly to balance itself with the Skywalkers -- a simple little family that has no true baring on the overall balance of the universal Force.

I agree with what you said but GL created this **** not me. To answer your last question about the skywalkers its cause they are supposed to be the last of the light left in the galaxy no others in tune with the lightside of force until Rey. Obviously the mandolorian tv show throws a major rinkle in this cause baby yoda is obvously force sensitve but maybe just being force sensitive like finn is supposed to be doesnt impact the balance until they have committed to a path..

Btw i moved my post to the proper thread
 
Its a good discussion wherever its posted.

I can't subscribe to something so quaint and simple as "perfect balance". Nor the idea that Luke at one time was the last of the good light? I never heard that, and it certainly makes little sense. GL says the Force is in everything. Said that from Day 1.

The Force itself is not good or bad... its all in how its used. But of course that gets contradicted all the time.

The Force is beginning to make about as much sense as midichlorians.

As many have said, sometimes the mystery is far better than a current misunderstood explanation. You know, like when scholars explained in detail how and why the world was flat.
 
Its a good discussion wherever its posted.

I can't subscribe to something so quaint and simple as "perfect balance". Nor the idea that Luke at one time was the last of the good light? I never heard that, and it certainly makes little sense. GL says the Force is in everything. Said that from Day 1.

The Force itself is not good or bad... its all in how its used. But of course that gets contradicted all the time.

The Force is beginning to make about as much sense as midichlorians.

As many have said, sometimes the mystery is far better than a current misunderstood explanation. You know, like when scholars explained in detail how and why the world was flat.

I think you answered your own question here. The fact that one is force sensitive does not throw the force out of balance because they are neutral like the force itself however once they chose a path and exert pressure on the force in one direction it tips out of balance, like a pendulem. Baby yoda is a good example he is neither good or bad he uses the force equally in situations. One second he is healing (the light) next second he is force choking (dark) someone he thinks is hurting his step dad
 
Yeah during the writing of the original scripts it was determined that balance didn't mean Light Side Jedi vs. Dark Side Sith it meant that *anyone* who uses the Force should make sure they use it in proper balance. A Jedi was allowed to use the "Dark Side" as long as they were calm and using it defensively (Luke choking the Gamorrean Guards that raised their axes against him compared to Vader Force choking as the means to win an argument, lol.) It was the Sith alone that threw things out of balance by overrusing the Dark Side to the near exclusion of the Light.

So you can kill all the Sith and still have balance. RJ started to change all that with Snoke's speech but now we can just assume that it was just Palpatine BSing Kylo in order to hide Rey's lineage from him.
 
I think you answered your own question here. The fact that one is force sensitive does not throw the force out of balance because they are neutral like the force itself however once they chose a path and exert pressure on the force in one direction it tips out of balance, like a pendulem. Baby yoda is a good example he is neither good or bad he uses the force equally in situations. One second he is healing (the light) next second he is force choking (dark) someone he thinks is hurting his step dad

OK, so if the Force inherently neutral, how could it ever be out of balance? Does it keeps tabs on how its used? How does the Force know what's bad? I mean, Palpatine, he's doing good things -- security and order for the galaxy.
 
[...]quick outline of what would have happened in your idealised version of the PT?
[...]

Okay. Yes it's got problems and plot holes, and yes it's a wall of text. But these are the sketchy, bare bones of a Prequel Trilogy, each film in 3 acts.

- The Jedi are less an administrative body and more a way of life.
- Obi Wan, Qui Gonn and Anakin are all several years older when this starts.
- Yoda is still basically a crazy old hermit.
- Palpatine is a bit more like Frank Underwood in House of Cards, the Chancellor is more like the scared old Emperor in the ANH novelization.
- Palps has orchestrated most of this, and is very good at going with the flow.
- At the close of his plan he no longer needs Dooku and engineers victory over the Separatists to wrap things up.
- He uses the trauma of war and fear of losing Padme to manipulate Anakin, who growing up homeless without a family, was always going to be vulnerable and angry.

Phantom Menace:

Act 1:

Decades of galactic unrest caused by disputes over territory, resources, and skirmishes between systems has flared up into war. Separatists cite corruption, decadence and incompetent rule in the aging Republic, which tries to maintain control. Senator Palpatine is whispering advice to the aging and fearful Chancellor while moving skillfully within the Senate itself.

The Jedi are a sect of warrior monks scattered throughout the galaxy. They don't have the numbers to prevent war, and most of them retreat to neutral areas due to the confusing nature of this conflict. They defend against despots, murderous pirates and warlords, they don't wage politically motivated war on dissidents. The enigmatic Master Yoda has no cure for worldly greed and corruption, but warns the other Jedi that there is a dark undercurrent fomenting this unrest.

Act 2:

A notable few Jedi find themselves involved in spite of their official neutrality, attempting to protect civilians and aid humanitarian efforts. A resource rich planet in the Outer Rim territories comes under Separatist attack. Backed by the technocratic Trade Federation their ground troops are the feared and hated IG series battle droids. Brutally efficient, merciless and numerically superior to make up for their lack of imagination and lateral thinking, they begin to exterminate the populace. Obi Wan and his old mentor Qui Gonn find themselves on the losing side of this invasion and prepare to die defending the civilians they sought to protect.

Act 3:

Help arrives in the unlikely form of a fleet led by local pirates backed by Outer Rim gangsters that hold off the droid army long enough for Republic forces to arrive. There's an almost preternaturally gifted young pilot in the freebooter fleet. His name is Anakin and he grew up on the streets of a backwater asteroid settlement in the Ring of Kafrene before falling in with pirates and smugglers. He doesn't know who his parents were and goes by the nickname 'Skywalker' because he makes flying look easy.

It seems time for an uneasy alliance between disdainful Republic forces and the dubious Pirate Fleet, but negotiations are interrupted by a shadowy assassin -- a Zabrak with a double-bladed, crimson lightsaber who cuts down the Republic general and his aides before turning his attention to the Jedi. Qui Gonn is killed -- in shock and horror Obi Wan nearly suffers the same fate were it not for Anakin risking his life to save him. They succeed in driving the assailant off, later concluding that his real target was the Republic leadership and he must be Separatist, and shockingly -- Sith. Meanwhile, the Separatists are re-grouping.

In a climactic orbital battle the combined forces of the Pirate Fleet and the Republic evict the Separatists and free the planet. Obi Wan looks at Anakin and says "There's someone you have to meet".

Attack of the Clones:


Act 1

As the Separatists gain the upper hand, Senator Palpatine reveals a large army of clone soldiers prepared in the previous decade on the remote world of Kamino. This forbidden technology is in direct contravention of several Republic statutes which the desperate Chancellor abrogates out fear of losing the war. As for the vast cost of such a force, the corrupt Senator Palpatine used threats, influence and fear of impending war to funnel funds out of Republic coffers and cut illegal deals with the Cloners of Kamino in years previous. He's been very busy in the Senate.

As a result the Republic loses its moral high ground even as they gain military advantage over the Separatists. The Senate erupts into chaos and in-fighting while the war draws in system after system. Most of the Jedi find they can no longer act neutral lest more innocents die, but they're now hopelessly entangled in a war they wanted no part of.

Act 2

Obi Wan has been teaching Anakin the ways of the Force in spite of Master Yoda's admonition that there was too much anger in the young pilot. They find themselves at the heart of the conflict as personal escorts to the Chancellor himself. Anakin is in awe of Coruscant's glittering promise and falls in love with the firebrand Senator Amidala, which soon interferes with his training, particularly the lessons about detachment and sacrifice for the greater good. Not all of the Separatist forces are droids, and Anakin tends to fight the living with the same fury and lack of compassion the Jedi normally reserve for droids. This does not bode well.

Act 3

The shadowy assassin -- Darth Maul -- strikes again. This time he uses the cover of a daring attack on Coruscant itself to fight his way through to the Chancellor and succeeds in killing him. Obi Wan reaches him too late, and they engage in a brutal duel in the palatial Galactic Senate building as a battle rages above Coruscant and in the streets nearby.

(Notably, they got through thanks to highly placed droids having been hacked into and corrupted to enable a security breach).

Anakin makes a fateful choice and abandons Obi Wan to spirit Padme Amidala away from the fighting, turning his back on his obligations as a soldier and a Jedi in order to protect the woman he loves. Many die due to his dereliction of duty.

Obi Wan is badly wounded but succeeds in defeating Maul. The Separatist attack abruptly ends as their remaining forces retreat from Coruscant.

He later berates Anakin for making the emotional choice. Anakin retorts that Padme is "all he's ever had" and vows revenge for the day's losses. Obi Wan reminds him vengeance is not the Jedi way.

"Maybe it should be."
"You don't mean that!"
"Look around you, the world is on fire. Jedi idealism isn't going to stop any of this. And besides...look to your own hands before lecturing me, *General* Kenobi."

As Anakin turns and storms off, Obi Wan looks down at his hands, covered in the blood of the slain.

In the chaotic aftermath of the attack, Palpatine is elected Chancellor and granted emergency powers, to the fear and consternation of Senator Amidala.


Rise of the Sith


Act 1:

War has consumed every system in the galaxy. The Republic is now under 'temporary' martial law for the 'safety of its citizens'. Anakin is now a member of Palpatine's elite special forces while Obi Wan has just left Coruscant with an expeditionary force to track down former Jedi Count Dooku, who now openly leads Separatist forces, committing war crimes and sowing violence at will. Surely this was the Dark Side that Master Yoda sensed at the beginning of the conflict...but with Maul dead there is only Dooku to contend with.

Padme is pregnant. Years of war have hardened Anakin and made him cruel, he struggles with rage and PTSD, putting a strain on their relationship. At this point he's Obi Wan's student in name only and Padme says as much, enraging him further. The Jedi have abandoned their ideals to fight alongside Clone armies hoping to end the destructive conflict decisively in hopes of preventing a decade or more of bloodshed and tragedy.

Palpatine encourages what he calls Anakin's 'bravery' and 'pragmatism' in 'doing what needs to be done'. He slowly convinces him that his outsider status allows him to see clearly, unlike the Jedi. Anakin at this point has learned to master the Force at a prodigal rate, but darkness swirls around him. He's a merciless combatant and brutal interrogator. Sensing this, Master Yoda implores Obi Wan to try and reach his friend and bring him back from the brink.

Before Obi Wan can confront his friend and former proteg?, the Separatists make what at first seems to be a fatal mistake, concentrating their forces and key leadership in a vulnerable system; but they're using civilians as human shields. The Republic halts their attack and leaves Obi Wan and his recon unit pinned down.

Dooku's personal fleet regroups for repair and re-supply, protected by the nearby Separatist armada. When a massive Republic attack falls on them, Dooku's support withdraws. Dooku is betrayed!

He's killed by Anakin himself when his command ship is boarded by elite Republic troops in the battle. Mad with bloodlust, Anakin slaughters the crew and directs the troopers under his command to wipe everyone out and take no prisoners.

Act 2:

Anakin feels powerless to do good, no amount of killing he's done has ended the war or ensured the safety of his wife and unborn child. Palpatine stokes his fear and rage, pointing out that the Jedi are willing to make sacrifices for the greater good. Surely the logical extension of this philosophical detachment would be to end the Separatist threat once and for all, human shields or not. Some innocents would die but their sacrifice would save far more lives in the years to come. Anakin agonizes over this choice while plagued constantly by nightmares of Padme's death, still holding on to an idea of what their relationship was before the war estranged them. Surely the war will end and things will go back to the way they were, and he can make her understand he did it all to protect her.

Succumbing to fear, he agrees to join an assault on the Separatists that will result in mass civilian casualties. He has given in to fear and anger, and succumbed to Palpatine's 'pragmatic' doctrine. Padme notes that it makes no sense that the Separatist armada would fall back and allow so many of their allied ships to be destroyed just to betray Dooku, it seems too costly. Anakin brushes this off and points out they're acting overconfident and bloodthirsty, because they think the Republic is weak. It was an overconfident power play that the Republic can exploit. Padme discovers the human shields and challenges him. Anakin flies into a dark rage and starts to force choke her. He stops short and flees to do battle. Padme stares after him in horror and collapses in grief.

Before he leaves, he feels great guilt and vows to make it right. He asks two Jedi he trusts to watch over her and keep her safe.

Act 3:

Thanks to the fog of war and his control over information, most of the Republic is unaware of what's transpiring. Chancellor Palpatine executes Order 66 and the Clones turn on the Jedi to wipe them out. Still trapped with his recon force, Obi Wan barely escapes with his life and finds himself in the city when the Republic attack starts. The bombardment is unprecedented.

Obi Wan begs Anakin to cease and desist, desperately calling on Republic forces to stop what they're doing but it's too late. In the middle of a bombed out city, with orbital combat overhead, Obi Wan wanders in despair, helping survivors wherever he can and defending them against stray Separatist units.

It's at this point a broadcast goes out to the galaxy. The Chancellor points out that the Separatist threat has been crushed but that years of war have left the galaxy in disarray and the Republic vulnerable to threats both external and internal -- such as the Jedi who tried to betray them. In order to restore order and peace to rebuild, he declares himself Emperor and sweeps aside the "corrupt and spent husk" of the old Republic. Long live the Empire.

At this point anyone in the Senate who resists is purged with greater ease than the Jedi were. Padme has given birth in the interim and manages to get her twin babies offworld. Her remaining loyal servants, the 2 Jedi bodyguards and herself are brutally killed by a Clone Death Squad carrying out the purge ordered by the Emperor.

Back on the last battlefield of the Clone Wars, Obi Wan is in shock from the message. Emperor Palpatine transmits a message to Anakin to eliminate the last of the Jedi wherever he finds them. Momentarily in disbelief himself, he's incited to blind grief and rage when the Emperor tells him Padme was killed in the Jedi uprising.

Anakin reaches the planet's surface and cuts down the last of the Separatist leadership as they try to surrender, and eventually comes upon Obi Wan over a bombed out geothermal plant.

Horrified at what he's become, Obi Wan turns off his lightsaber and casts it aside, begging with him to listen to reason, that something is horribly wrong, that Palpatine is a liar.

He ignites his lightsaber and lunges as Obi Wan retrieves his and their duel begins.

The fight is very, very fast, like a Kendo match at full-speed. Fast, precise strikes and counters meant to kill, with no flourishes or pauses. It quickly winds up far above a pit of molten rock used by the power plant.

The violence of Anakin's attack increases but at this moment, overcome with grief, Obi Wan connects peacefully to the Force and succeeds in turning Anakin's energy against him, evading his blows, grievously wounding him and seeing him plummet to what Obi Wan thinks is his doom.

Grieving, Obi Wan goes in search of Master Yoda.

Sensing what's happened, the Emperor speeds to the planet and retrieves Anakin's broken body, determined to use Dark Science and the Power of the Dark Side to bring him back from the brink.

As he works, the purge continues and the former Republic falls into line.

(We all know how it ends.)
 
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lol
 
OK first off, my apologies, because this wasn't what you asked for...

To be blunt, I would have preferred if the PT never happened at all. Sure there were some excellent moments and a few memorable characters, but after the OT I wanted to see where they would take the story next, not see the past. And by next I mean immediately following RoTJ, not 30 or 40 years later. IMO there are three primary reasons for why making the PT was a mistake. First, there was really no suspense with respect to the main characters, because (as you've indicated) we already knew who was going to live on and who wasn't. Every time Obi-Wan or Anakin had a lightsaber battle against someone or was in a perilous situation, you knew they'd survive. Secondly, (what I feel was the biggest mistake of all) it demystified the Jedi Order. Showing them as part of the bureaucracy and being duped by Palpatine time and again with nary a clue was irksome to me, as was their less than brilliant military strategies. Seeing this made one wonder what all the fuss was about with respect to Luke becoming a Jedi. Finally, CH just didn't work as Anakin for me. They needed a better actor, or at least someone who made the character more likeable prior to his descent into darkness. Without that connection to the audience, it made his seduction decidedly less tragic than it should have been, not to mention retroactively cheapening Luke's efforts to return him to the light. "There's still good in him". Really? After the PT, I wasn't sure there was any there to begin with. :lol

Great post.:clap

Yeah enough can't be said about the "Rian Johnson factor." He alone guaranteed that there will never be direct parallels in performance between the ST and the two Lucas trilogies.

TLJ is 10 times better than AOTC and yet TLJ is hated 10 times *more* than AOTC. All because of RJ. If that idiot had just said "I'm sad to see that so many were disappointed with the direction we took the story and characters in TLJ. But have faith because we love these characters as much as you do and there is a plan." Then I've got to believe that that would have caused 90% of the naysayers to wait out the next couple years to see how everything turned out.

But him lashing out at fans directly for months on end, belittling and mocking their concerns just fanned the flames of a burning hatred that continues for many to this day. In fact after Solo showed that SW was not invincible I suspected that TROS might be lucky to clear $750 million worldwide. It's a credit to that film's quality that so many who stayed away from Solo are watching, and enjoying, the final chapter of the Saga.

Yeah it's not like RJ's STILL on social media banging that same drum (I mean even of lot of TLJ-beating youtubers have moved on) :monkey3

And I always wonder where that "neckbeards wanted their mega-meta-uber hero Luke to destroy all those ATATs on Crait with the flick of a finger while twirling five lightsabers with his mind" idea came from...

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Disney Star Wars movies should just be one-offs that solve the great unanswered mysteries like they did with RO: how'd they get the DS plans?

Here's some other possible mysteries to solve:

How did Palpatine kill Darth Plagueis?

Who built the Millennial Falcon?

Exactly how many Bothans died to get them this information?

What did the Sandpeople do to Shmi all that time?

Why does Chewbacca have a crossbow that fires laser blasts?

I hope that was a simple typo.:rotfl

And I've said it before and I'll say it again - I would be unashamedly 100% onboard for a RO-type movie set a week or so before the battle of Hoth, so set "inside" ESB the way RO is set "inside" ANH.
 
Disney Star Wars movies should just be one-offs that solve the great unanswered mysteries like they did with RO: how'd they get the DS plans?

Here's some other possible mysteries to solve:

How did Palpatine kill Darth Plagueis?

Who built the Millennial Falcon?

Exactly how many Bothans died to get them this information?

What did the Sandpeople do to Shmi all that time?

Why does Chewbacca have a crossbow that fires laser blasts?

And speaking of, how the hell was Episode VII the first time Han ever borrowed Chewie's bowcaster?
 
?The Children of Rey? :yuck

Seriously you have to warn people before you say things like that. Now I have a mess to clean up!

So does Disney but just remember, u gotta get every bit of that milk out and the Mouse paid plenty for this franchise. I mean, I never thought I'd see
Portman back in the MCU again - and don't remember anyone ASKING for that, but there it is.

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https://www.businessinsider.com/george-lucas-says-he-sold-star-wars-to-white-slavers-2015-12
When Disney bought Lucasfilm for $4 billion in 2012, it gave Disney ownership of the "Star Wars" franchise. At the time, Lucas had some ideas for how "Episode VII" could be told. But it seems once the papers were signed, Disney told Lucas to take a hike.

"They looked at the stories and they said, 'We want to make something for the fans,'" Lucas said. "I said, 'All I want to do is tell a story'? They decided they didn?t want to use those [my] stories, they decided they were going to do their own thing. They weren?t that keen to have me involved anyway ? if I get in there, I'm just going to cause trouble, because they're not going to do what I want them to do. And I don't have the control to do that anymore. All I would do is muck everything up. And so I said, 'OK, I will go my way, and I'll let them go their way.'"
 
The sea cow breast milk I could keep down. Rey breast feeding young padawans is a different story.

I would rather watch baby Yoda strangling her with the force, and then force healing her so he can strangle her again.
 
Yeah I'd be more than content if they just stick to Disney+ from here on out. For movies I hope they stay far away from the Episode I-IX characters and timeline going forward.

Here is my unpopular opinion... I don't want any SW films unless they take place at the same time or close to the same time as the events of the OT.

I don't care if its on the other side of the galaxy... But its just not SW unless you know that the evil Empire is out there.

Otherwise its just a sci fi adventure with SW pasted on it.

I don't need any of the main characters but perhaps a story about how others were dealing with the Empire during the events of Episode 4-6

Think RO without it being so closely related to Episode 4.

 
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