Get yourself an avatar Ducky, with multi-quote responses like that it seems like you should fit right in here and I don't mean that as a jab.
As to your post, honestly, I don't really want to go into this too much. It's a dead horse that's been truly, savagely beaten quite enough over the years and I don't think one side ever persuades the other so all I'm going to do is point to one piece of disagreement I have - not about the ST - I definitely agree about those. It sounds like you're not a fan and neither am I. I guess I'm just not a fan of 3 more films than you are.
Was it entitlement to expect the prequels to line up with the references to that era contained in the OT? Almost the entirety of Obi-wan's dialogue to Luke and that of Uncle Owen in ANH is completely ignored by the PT. There was a lot of implied drama behind much of what those characters told us about the Clone Wars and Anakin and none of it happened on screen - let alone the very good acting subtleties from Alec Guinness and Phil Brown in their respective scenes that hinted at so much potential - but the dialogue - virtually none of it borne out by the prequel movies themselves and I think it's a cop-out at best just to say that it was all lies/made-up by Obi-Wan and Uncle Owen.
Heck Owen knew Anakin for probably less than a day in AOTC and never saw him again as far as the films are concerned. He doesn't even meet Obi-wan till the last scene of ROTS. I don't think it was unreasonable to expect that the movies (as opposed to EU books/comics etc) would elaborate on this stuff. So I don't agree about your unfounded entitlement point.
And that's to say nothing about how unconvincing the core relationships and character developments were in the prequels which is their primary failing for anyone who dislikes those movies - namely Anakin and Obi-wan's friendship, Anakin's love story with Padme and his fall to the dark side. It was difficult if not impossible for us to buy these vital elements due to terrible scriptwriting, no scriptwriting (i.e stuff that was just left off screen/ meant to be taken for granted) and godawful acting (yes, worse than almost anything in the OT - but we'll probably just have to agree to disagree on that)
Well, I happen to think ROTS is the worst of the prequels. You heard that right, of those films I put Phantom Menace on top - best visuals, best score, best actor (Neeson), best villain (Maul).
Thanks! I’ll have to find an appropriate avatar.
You bring up a good point and I agree with it. There are some holes in my theory and this is one of them, so unfounded was the wrong choice there, as some expectations going into these movies should have been explored more or showcased better. There always seemed to be tension there and AOTC never really explored that tension. To be honest, Anakin killing all those Tusken Raiders was doing the Lars Homestead a favor, so I don’t see why Uncle Owen would hold any anger toward the Jedi for it or for Kenobi always protecting the Lars Homestead. It never made sense to me. Sure, they dropped a kid off at their door, but at that point the Empire never knew about Luke. Now, to put myself in the OT fans shoes when these movies first came out, I certainly would have thought something happened in the Clone Wars on Tatooine, like Kenobi/Anakin killed Owen’s father accidentally/responsible for his death or destroyed the Homestead or something more dramatic to create that tension between Owen and the Jedi. I guess the easiest explanation for this is that he loved Luke, knew the Jedi were being hunted, and didn’t want Luke to have that life.
I never had a problem with the Anakin/Kenobi relationship, but that’s probably because I’ve read books and comics that flesh out that relationship, so my opinion towards this is a bit tainted. Sure, I’ve seen some argue that Kenobi should have been in the Jinn role, but I think Kenobi failing as a master is a big reason, and for me, further justification for why Anakin turns to the darkside. Plus, just like in the OT, Lucas jumps forward in time and makes the audience create some assumptions (like Luke from ESB to ROTJ becoming a Jedi Master). In this case, from AOTC to ROTS the assumption is that Anakin grew as a person and Kenobi (and Padme) helped with that growth and over the course of the Clone Wars that bond became stronger. They show it in ROTS. Maybe it was too late.
The romance stuff I agree with. They needed to show it, but they did a bad job with it in AOTC. It was too Shakespearean? Not sure if that is the correct word. But it failed and failed hard. The Clone Wars TV show does a better job at highlighting their relationship. It sucks too, because AOTC is a pretty damn good movie to me with a lot of cool stuff. Rework that romance stuff and it becomes a much better movie and I think people’s opinions on it change for the better. That said, I think ROTS does a wonderful job showing the Anakin/Padme love. Subtle, but great.
Now, the fall to the dark side stuff was completely believable to me and ties in with Yoda’s hate/anger/suffering quote, along with the death of his mother/Palpatine manipulation. Problem is, the damn ST takes a giant crap on it all with force healing being done by Rey of all people. I have a lot to write on this topic, if you want to hear it, I’ll do it, if not that's fine too. Agree to disagree.
And from a personal standpoint, ROTS is my favorite Star Wars movie ever
So, I don’t think we’ll ever see eye to eye on that one
Let's just say it's a situation of The OT Got Fingered. First in the early 2000's by an emotionally constipated neckbeard who never left his parent's basement, and again in the late 2010s by a snarky libtard who never had an original thought. But... it's still around, recently de-specialized and doing just fine.
I don’t whether to take this as an insult, light hearted rib, or a great joke, either way.... that was funny
WHAT?!
This is getting silly now.
The American Film Institute consistently has Star Wars/ANH within the top 15 in its list of 100 greatest films of all time (always topped by Citizen Kane,) SW music score always at #1, and has two SW characters (Han and Ben from ANH) in the top 50 top film characters ever created. ANH was also nominated for 11 Academy Awards including Best Picture (at a time when that really meant something.)
And as for whether the acclaim for the OT is solely about ANH (and yes, these are two different polls nearly five years apart, not the same one in two different articles)...
What does that even mean though? Because something is based on a book, it's inherently better?
I agree with you on this. ANH/ESB aren’t only in the discussion for greatest Sci-Fi movies of all time, but greatest movies of all time. Star Wars has shown in can be truly great cinema from that critic standpoint. It’s hard to follow something up like that though.
