Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Khev]

Nope. She was already trained from force downloading her powers and the BS Disney line of believing in the force.

Let’s see, she knows mind tricks. Beat Kylo. Fights those guards. Lifts like a 100 rocks easily, something we never even saw Yoda do. Why does she even need training? And that’s a joke too, because Leia “abandoned” her Jedi training.

So, Rey has never been fully trained yet 10x better than Luke ever was. It’s a joke.



“cannot interfere” trumps all of this.

Yoda and Kenobi would have helped Luke defeat the Emperor if they could have.

I find your understanding of all of the above to be lacking.

 

[TheDucky]

I find your understanding of all of the above to be lacking.

Help me understand then.

I don’t get it.

How can Rey force download her powers? Why didn’t Luke? Why can Rey be a better Jedi than Luke? Why can Rey lift 100s of rock? How was Rey trained by Leia, when Leia abandoned her own training?

Why can force ghosts all of a sudden interact with force lightning? Why didn’t Yoda or Kenobi help Luke then? Why even mention “cannot interfere” as in he physically can’t as opposed to won’t?

I don’t get any of it.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Nope she was personally trained by Leia for multiple years between TLJ and TROS.

My pic was mostly meant as a spoof on her mechanical know how.

But the Leia training bit doesn't explain Rey's shenanigans before meeting her. The question of exactly what Leia's level of force abilities are is another can of worms. And it sure as hell doesn't explain why every force ghost of Christmas past is doing whatever the **** that was with Rey, but pulled a no show in ROTJ.

And force ghost interference/interaction is ridiculous. Why not have ghost Yoda force push Palps off the edge. Or he could just use the also new and ridiculous force teleportation/object theft to retrieve his old lightsaber and stab Palps right in the back. This is the kind of stupid **** that is now in play.

In the Disney Star Wars universe you aren't safe until you are dead

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Yep George himself stated that the Jedi Spirits were actually personified manifestations of the Force itself and last I checked the Force is capable of manipulating physical objects.

Wow you really are willing to stretch any BS reasoning to validate this awful trilogy.

Just because a ghost can appear doesn't make them capable of using the force in the real world. You need to be alive to do that, otherwise see my post above ^

By your logic, Kenobi could have sacrificed himself as he did in SW, then immediately returned as a ghost, picked up his saber and lopped off Vader's head. Brilliant!

 

[Neal136]

I'm guessing Rey's ability to "download" information from Kylo had something to do with their dyad … a power that none of the other Jedi mentioned had or shared with anyone else.

 

[TheDucky]

Khev getting ready to defend the ST:

Khev reading these replies:

Khev replying:

 

[ajp4mgs]

Help me understand then.

I don?t get it.

While you're waiting for Khev to respond, maybe I can clear up some of the answers that I think LFL would give you.

How can Rey force download her powers?

Her aptitude with the Force is now tied to her having been a Palpatine all along. Touching the saber in TFA awakened her abilities, and having Kylo in her mind shortly thereafter allowed her to access his mind (and how he uses is to summon Force abilities).

Why didn?t Luke?

LFL would probably tell you that Luke wasn't part of a "Force dyad" that connected Rey to Kylo in such a way as to allow each one unique access to one another's consciousness during those occasions when they're bridging their minds.

Why can Rey be a better Jedi than Luke?

Palpatine was more powerful than anyone (Luke included), so his granddaughter inherited a higher ceiling. Especially if she's able to draw from both the light side and the dark side of the Force.

Why can Rey lift 100s of rock?

That's nothing compared to Palpatine using the Force to lift a thousand Star Destroyers out of the ground.

How was Rey trained by Leia, when Leia abandoned her own training?

Abandoning her training doesn't mean she'd forget what she learned. And that's why the novel says she continued hearing Jedi voices after ending her training with Luke.

Why can force ghosts all of a sudden interact with force lightning?

The Force ghosts exist by way of utilizing the Force itself, so there's no reason why they wouldn't be able to interact with other Force powers the same way as when Yoda caught lightning in the PT.

Why didn?t Yoda or Kenobi help Luke then?

Because Anakin was the Chosen One *AHEM!* to end Palpatine and the Sith. Helping Luke would not have led to Anakin being motivated to fulfill his destiny by saving his son.

Why even mention ?cannot interfere? as in he physically can?t as opposed to won?t?

"Cannot interfere" can be just as much of a moral or intellectual stance as it could be a physical limitation.

I don?t get any of it.

I probably didn't help you. But I enjoyed doing it, and I'm selfish.

Khev is better at this than LFL, and much better than I am, so I hope he responds to you. Should be a great read.

 

[Khev]

My pic was mostly meant as a spoof on her mechanical know how.

Ohhh, well then update your memes before posting!

 

[Khev]

While you're waiting for Khev to respond, maybe I can clear up some of the answers that I think LFL would give you.



Her aptitude with the Force is now tied to her having been a Palpatine all along. Touching the saber in TFA awakened her abilities, and having Kylo in her mind shortly thereafter allowed her to access his mind (and how he uses is to summon Force abilities).



LFL would probably tell you that Luke wasn't part of a "Force dyad" that connected Rey to Kylo in such a way as to allow each one unique access to one another's consciousness during those occasions when they're bridging their minds.



Palpatine was more powerful than anyone (Luke included), so his granddaughter inherited a higher ceiling. Especially if she's able to draw from both the light side and the dark side of the Force.



That's nothing compared to Palpatine using the Force to lift a thousand Star Destroyers out of the ground.



Abandoning her training doesn't mean she'd forget what she learned. And that's why the novel says she continued hearing Jedi voices after ending her training with Luke.



The Force ghosts exist by way of utilizing the Force itself, so there's no reason why they wouldn't be able to interact with other Force powers the same way as when Yoda caught lightning in the PT.



Because Anakin was the Chosen One *AHEM!* to end Palpatine and the Sith. Helping Luke would not have led to Anakin being motivated to fulfill his destiny by saving his son.



"Cannot interfere" can be just as much of a moral or intellectual stance as it could be a physical limitation.



I probably didn't help you. But I enjoyed doing it, and I'm selfish.

Khev is better at this than LFL, and much better than I am, so I hope he responds to you. Should be a great read.

Nope I think you know full well that you nailed this one, nicely done.

To elaborate a little more on the "cannot interfere" Ben doesn't mean he was incapable of interfering, just that he could not in order for things to properly play out as they should. If he and Yoda really would have done *anything* to help Luke as you suggest well then why not just appear as ghosts to distract Vader and the Emperor? Wave their hands around going "booga booga!" while Luke deals the killing blow, lol.

See it wasn't about that nor was it about that when Rey faced Palpatine either.

Yoda and Kenobi would have helped Luke defeat the Emperor if they could have.

They did though, just not directly.

 

[Khev]

Khev getting ready to defend the ST:

Khev reading these replies:

Khev replying:

You forgot "Young fool...only now, at the end...do you understand."

 

[ajp4mgs]

If he and Yoda really would have done *anything* to help Luke as you suggest well then why not just appear as ghosts to distract Vader and the Emperor? Wave their hands around going "booga booga!" while Luke deals the killing blow, lol.

That would've been epic!

BTW, I hope you caught the *AHEM!* in my post when referencing the Chosen One. That prophecy stuff actually does help settle certain OT questions. Just sayin . . .

 

[Khev]

That would've been epic!

BTW, I hope you caught the *AHEM!* in my post when referencing the Chosen One. That prophecy stuff actually does help settle certain OT questions. Just sayin . . .

Ha ha, yes, that's correct of course. If you want to tie in prequel stuff that certainly works as a valid explanation.

Like I said TROS not only beautifully wraps up the ST but it also beautifully wraps up OT + ST *and* PT + OT + ST. Just sayin', don't shoot the messenger, lol.

 

[TaliBane]

Nope she was personally trained by Leia for multiple years between TLJ and TROS.

Leia trained her how to speak without mouth/lower face movement, and how to give too-long closed-eyes hugs, the two iconic ST Leia powers.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Ohhh, well then update your memes before posting!

Sometimes you get a two-fer

 

[jye4ever]

Ha ha, yes, that's correct of course. If you want to tie in prequel stuff that certainly works as a valid explanation.

Like I said TROS not only beautifully wraps up the ST but it also beautifully wraps up OT + ST *and* PT + OT + ST. Just sayin', don't shoot the messenger, lol.

Khev I ain?t falling for these PT cultists trap.

They are trying to get me to worship ROTS and the fall of Whining-Kan while duping me into hating Luke, Leia and Han but it ain?t happening lol

Chosen one this, save people from dying that at the end of the day it all boils down to their disappointment that Snoke wasn?t Plaqueis that is why they are all carrying on this way.

ajp is the phantom menace lol



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[JAWS]

lol

more then enough reason in that gif right there to justify my dislike of ROTS

Oh yeah... And this

I don't hate it like the ST because it didn't smear and ruin the OT.

Had it not been for TROS I might agree with this... But TROS fixed the wrongs of the previous two films and gave a satisfying ending to the SW saga.

The PT did plenty to crap on the OT... I still have difficultly taking Vader seriously after the PT. He is just not as threatening anymore and it has nothing to do with seeing his good side or seeing him as a kid.. It has too do with a poorly directed performance and that fact he got owned so quickly after turning to the dark side..

Also before the PT I was cool with Vader being redeemed... But now I have trouble getting the idea that he is a mass murderer of Children out of my head. I can accept that he saved his kid... But to be rewarded by becoming one with the force... IDK about that one.

Yoda was ruined in the PT also... Luckily the CGI helps me disconnect my feelings of those films and enjoy the wise jedi masted puppet we get in the OT.

I could go on about the who 3PO's maker, Boba Fett is a clone, the Jedi being almost cartoonish in their abilities. Not too mention all the crap I have to ignore form PT to OT.. Obi Wan aging horribly and forgetful memory, Leia remembering her mother, R2-D2 knowing everything and telling nobody...

It took me a long time to get over this stuff.. It really impacted my enjoyment of the OT

Having said that.. So did the first two films of the OT. A super powerful force user, Han is a **** father, Leia ignores Chewie, unimaginative saber fights, space battles and set designs.... Rose, Holdo, Hux, DJ, Maz and Ryan Johnson's face all over the press circuit

TROS fixed most of that for me... Not all..... The final space battle was a bit of a let down.. But man seeing all the ships show up with Lando more then made up for what was to follow.



I cant believe I am see people defend AOTC.. Hate on the ST all you want but you render your point useless when you defend AOTC.

Its about as bad as a big movie can get. I mean its not far off from Battlefield Earth type quality.. OK that is a bit harsh... But really it offers next to nothing.

I would say that Anakin killing the Sand People was a good moment and I liked the design of the creatures that the the trio fought in the arena.

Worst saber fight in all of Star Wars except for maybe Luke vs Kylo (does that even count? )

Not one interesting action set piece in the entire film.

 

[jye4ever]

more then enough reason in that gif right there to justify my dislike of ROTS

Oh yeah... And this

View attachment 480795



Had it not been for TROS I might agree with this... But TROS fixed the wrongs of the previous two films and gave a satisfying ending to the SW saga.

The PT did plenty to crap on the OT... I still have difficultly taking Vader seriously after the PT. He is just not as threatening anymore and it has nothing to do with seeing his good side or seeing him as a kid.. It has too do with a poorly directed performance and that fact he got owned so quickly after turning to the dark side..

Also before the PT I was cool with Vader being redeemed... But now I have trouble getting the idea that he is a mass murderer of Children out of my head. I can accept that he saved his kid... But to be rewarded by becoming one with the force... IDK about that one.

Yoda was ruined in the PT also... Luckily the CGI helps me disconnect my feelings of those films and enjoy the wise jedi masted puppet we get in the OT.

I could go on about the who 3PO's maker, Boba Fett is a clone, the Jedi being almost cartoonish in their abilities. Not too mention all the crap I have to ignore form PT to OT.. Obi Wan aging horribly and forgetful memory, Leia remembering her mother, R2-D2 knowing everything and telling nobody...

It took me a long time to get over this stuff.. It really impacted my enjoyment of the OT

Having said that.. So did the first two films of the OT. A super powerful force user, Han is a **** father, Leia ignores Chewie, unimaginative saber fights, space battles and set designs.... Rose, Holdo, Hux, DJ, Maz and Ryan Johnson's face all over the press circuit

TROS fixed most of that for me... Not all..... The final space battle was a bit of a let down.. But man seeing all the ships show up with Lando more then made up for what was to follow.



I cant believe I am see people defend AOTC.. Hate on the ST all you want but you render your point useless when you defend AOTC.

Its about as bad as a big movie can get. I mean its not far off from Battlefield Earth type quality.. OK that is a bit harsh... But really it offers next to nothing.

I would say that Anakin killing the Sand People was a good moment and I liked the design of the creatures that the the trio fought in the arena.

Worst saber fight in all of Star Wars except for maybe Luke vs Kylo (does that even count? )

Not one interesting action set piece in the entire film.

That love dialogue by Anakin in AOTC truly is one for the ages.

That Jango Fett battle on Kamino is sooo bad with Kenobi holding onto a fish string.

Jango is a bumbling fool lol


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[TheDucky]

While you're waiting for Khev to respond, maybe I can clear up some of the answers that I think LFL would give you.


Her aptitude with the Force is now tied to her having been a Palpatine all along. Touching the saber in TFA awakened her abilities, and having Kylo in her mind shortly thereafter allowed her to access his mind (and how he uses is to summon Force abilities).

Why didn't Luke touching his father's saber awaken his abilities then? The Force Download thing is still terrible. "That's not how the Force works."

LFL would probably tell you that Luke wasn't part of a "Force dyad" that connected Rey to Kylo in such a way as to allow each one unique access to one another's consciousness during those occasions when they're bridging their minds.

Pretty convenient that some brand new Force Dyad BS pops up. Reeks of Twilight ****. It's like they have to invent something new to make up for all the mistakes they made along the way. Where was any of this stuff in the previous 6 movies?

Palpatine was more powerful than anyone (Luke included), so his granddaughter inherited a higher ceiling. Especially if she's able to draw from both the light side and the dark side of the Force.

I'd accept that answer if she had training, but she really didn't. Luke got his ass kicked by Vader his first duel and Rey beat Kylo, a fully trained whatever he is in her first fight.

That's nothing compared to Palpatine using the Force to lift a thousand Star Destroyers out of the ground.

True.

Abandoning her training doesn't mean she'd forget what she learned. And that's why the novel says she continued hearing Jedi voices after ending her training with Luke.

I mean... it's like abandoning a language when you just learned the basics. Sure, you can be ok in a very casual conversation, but talking to a fluent person beyond "my name is... i come from America" they will be lost. What does Leia even have to teach Rey if she already downloaded stuff from a fully trained Kylo. It still doesn't make sense.

The Force ghosts exist by way of utilizing the Force itself, so there's no reason why they wouldn't be able to interact with other Force powers the same way as when Yoda caught lightning in the PT.

That was changed in the ST. Why didn't Yoda or Kenobi help Luke at all then? At any point. Why didn't they just kill the Emperor while he was sleeping?

Because Anakin was the Chosen One *AHEM!* to end Palpatine and the Sith. Helping Luke would not have led to Anakin being motivated to fulfill his destiny by saving his son.

Yoda didn't even believe in it and Kenobi was guilt tripped into believing it. Even then, both had hope in Luke to begin with to restore balance to the force. And there is zero chance they would just let Luke die like that if Vader didn't help.

"Cannot interfere" can be just as much of a moral or intellectual stance as it could be a physical limitation.

If that was the case, he would used "I will not."

I probably didn't help you. But I enjoyed doing it, and I'm selfish.

Khev is better at this than LFL, and much better than I am, so I hope he responds to you. Should be a great read.

Nah, you helped, makes more sense, so thanks, but I don't accept it though

As I said earlier, I think the line is drawn between accepting new concepts added in to cover their mistakes vs not accepting that additional material. If you accept that stuff, like the Force Download, like the Dyad, like Rey Palpatine.... ST becomes easier to understand.

Some of my dislike is entitlement based, but the natural progression of Luke, Han, Leia and their character arcs make no sense. They ALL are burnt out failed losers now? Come on. Just to prop up Rey/Finn/Poe...

Khev I ain?t falling for these PT cultists trap.

They are trying to get me to worship ROTS and the fall of Whining-Kan while duping me into hating Luke, Leia and Han but it ain?t happening lol

Chosen one this, save people from dying that at the end of the day it all boils down to their disappointment that Snoke wasn?t Plaqueis that is why they are all carrying on this way.

ajp is the phantom menace lol

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You mean... the ST didn't make you hate the OT Gang... but somehow the PT... which didn't ruin a single character of Luke, Leia, Han will make you hate them?

The ST turned your hero Luke into a failed hermit who wanted to kill his own nephew. Then force projects himself to death.

The ST turned your princess into a failed mother, jedi, senator, rebellion leader. Ultimate failure.

The ST turned your once scoundrel to hero rebel and great friend into a regressed sack of **** who sold his medal off because he is a drunk, a failed father, a failed husband, and a failed rebel leader.

But sure, it's the PT that wants you to hate them

more then enough reason in that gif right there to justify my dislike of ROTS


Had it not been for TROS I might agree with this... But TROS fixed the wrongs of the previous two films and gave a satisfying ending to the SW saga.

How did it fix Luke, Leia, Han, and the entirety of the OT being replayed out and making the OT pretty much pointless?

The PT did plenty to crap on the OT... I still have difficultly taking Vader seriously after the PT. He is just not as threatening anymore and it has nothing to do with seeing his good side or seeing him as a kid.. It has too do with a poorly directed performance and that fact he got owned so quickly after turning to the dark side..

So, you didn't get what you want so you didn't like it?

Also before the PT I was cool with Vader being redeemed... But now I have trouble getting the idea that he is a mass murderer of Children out of my head. I can accept that he saved his kid... But to be rewarded by becoming one with the force... IDK about that one.

So it was ok for Vader to slaughter millions of kids on Alderaan... but a few younglings just crossed the line?

Yoda was ruined in the PT also... Luckily the CGI helps me disconnect my feelings of those films and enjoy the wise jedi masted puppet we get in the OT.

Another case of didn't get what you wanted, so it's ruined?

I could go on about the who 3PO's maker, Boba Fett is a clone, the Jedi being almost cartoonish in their abilities. Not too mention all the crap I have to ignore form PT to OT.. Obi Wan aging horribly and forgetful memory, Leia remembering her mother, R2-D2 knowing everything and telling nobody...

Rey is half a clone, but that's ok?

Rey isn't cartoonish in her abilities? She literally believes in the force after realizing it's real and then can do it.

Obi-Wan lived on Tatooine. How else do you think he would age?

I don't see how C-3PO being made by Anakin is so bad. Worse cases of small world than that. And it's Star Wars, the whole thing started with R2 and 3PO finding Luke.

It took me a long time to get over this stuff.. It really impacted my enjoyment of the OT

Having said that.. So did the first two films of the OT. A super powerful force user, Han is a **** father, Leia ignores Chewie, unimaginative saber fights, space battles and set designs.... Rose, Holdo, Hux, DJ, Maz and Ryan Johnson's face all over the press circuit

TROS fixed most of that for me... Not all..... The final space battle was a bit of a let down.. But man seeing all the ships show up with Lando more then made up for what was to follow.

So.... to quote myself...

The ST turned your hero Luke into a failed hermit who wanted to kill his own nephew. Then force projects himself to death.

The ST turned your princess into a failed mother, jedi, senator, rebellion leader. Ultimate failure.

The ST turned your once scoundrel to hero rebel and great friend into a regressed sack of **** who sold his medal off because he is a drunk, a failed father, a failed husband, and a failed rebel leader.

But, none of that... knowing all the OT gang did and all there growth was ultimately pointless and worthless... doesn't ruin the OT for you?

But an aged man living on Tatooine and Boba being a clone does?

I cant believe I am see people defend AOTC.. Hate on the ST all you want but you render your point useless when you defend AOTC.

Its about as bad as a big movie can get. I mean its not far off from Battlefield Earth type quality.. OK that is a bit harsh... But really it offers next to nothing.

I would say that Anakin killing the Sand People was a good moment and I liked the design of the creatures that the the trio fought in the arena.

Worst saber fight in all of Star Wars except for maybe Luke vs Kylo (does that even count? )

Not one interesting action set piece in the entire film.

What was one interesting action set piece in the entire ST? I rather watch 9 hours of Jango vs Kenobi space battle.

 

[ironwez20]

Khev I ain?t falling for these PT cultists trap.

They are trying to get me to worship ROTS and the fall of Whining-Kan while duping me into hating Luke, Leia and Han but it ain?t happening lol

Chosen one this, save people from dying that at the end of the day it all boils down to their disappointment that Snoke wasn?t Plaqueis that is why they are all carrying on this way.

ajp is the phantom menace lol



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Lol most of the people hating on this don?t even like the PT. You and khev are just desperate to try and say this wrapped up your little story because your afraid to admit your childhood heroes are forever ruined and there is no going back.

Lol the fact that you two kept this thread alive trying to piece together why the ST makes sense is proof that it didn?t wrap up perfectly at all.

A comic comes out tomorrow explaining that Rey?s farts helped her pilot the falcon and you?ll eat it up and say it all made sense from the beginning and how it ties well perfectly with the OT.

I bet You and khev just do this to get a rise out of people. You two can?t possibly believe this is good storytelling.

 

[greedo737]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/xTiT...45b940ca9718c355892c55b2154dc58&rid=giphy.gif