I truly don't understand this. Not trying to be an ass to you, really am not, but I just don't get how the PT ruined the OT for you but the ST didn't
I would have agreed with you but TROS saved the ST for me.. Simple as that.. I felt like a kid again.. First time I felt that way since ROTJ
I know, I admitted it in a post above
Entitlement plays a role for all sides.
Ok fair enough.
That's like saying Himmler wasn't bad, because Hitler gave the orders. Extreme example, but I couldn't think of anything else.
I guess seeing a planet blow up is not as drastic feeling as seeing a little child moments before he is sliced in half by a saber (face to face) feels more serial killer like.
That was explained in AOTC though. Their mastery of the force was equal, so then they went to the light-saber. Same thing happened with Palpatine. The Clone Wars cartoon shows this with Yoda when he just toys with Asajj Ventress and force pulls her lightsabers away.
You know when I was a kid my best friend and I use to draw pics of Yoda with light sabers and flying Xwing fighters to make each other laugh. It just seemed so silly. First time viewing it was kinda cool I will admit.. But ROTS ruined what should have been at most one fleeting moment. Repeat viewings and knowing how they did even more of it in the ROTS made me hate yoda AOTC saber duel.
Anakin slaughtered a temple of Jedi though. And it was his master, the guy that trained him and knew his every move, all while he was in a fit of rage and overconfidence, which did him in. If that was Vader in the suit, he'd destroy Obi.
Younglings and Jedi in training... All the Jedi were out fighting the Wars... He is shown killing some young teens on the hologram tapes. And he has a bunch of Troopers with him.. He then kills a bunch of unarmed aliens.. The moments could have been cool in a longer movie.. But Lucas screwed up the timeline and started back too far and had to hurry up to fast to get Anakin to the dark side..
Getting beat by Obi Wan is fine... Give Vader some truly stand out moments before that and perhaps it means more.
As for Vader in the Suit beating Obi Wan.. I dont think the Suit makes Vader a better Sith Lord..
The ST craps way more on the OT.
I guess because the events happen after the OT and because of that the events in the ST are never mentioned in the OT one can ignore the ST if they choose. Because the PT deals with and shows events discussed in the OT it makes it harder to clear them from my mind.
I was really looking forward to the story of Anakin / Vader.. The PT really ruined that character and really effected my enjoyment of the OT for a long time. I have to do a lot of rewriting in my head to correct the issues of the PT.
So, downloading her powers and having no training isn't cartoonish to you?
Cartoonish... No... Perhaps a bit of a logic leap.. But again making her the relative to the most powerful force user ever allows me to give it a pass. If I did not like TROS as much as I did I might agree with you.. But I did enjoy it and it worked for me. Plus at least by the time TROS came around Rey was getting training from Leia.
Not really. See what a tanning booth does to you in five years and Obi was out there for what... 15+ years?
18 years to be exact.
He had a hood, a hut and I bet some Jedi Sun Screen in his Jedi belt next to his Jedi underwater breathing apparatus
There could have been far better drama than ruining Luke. He never was going to strike his father down, but will his defenseless nephew... who didn't do anything? Come on.
It didn't ruin Luke for me.. And he didn't kill his nephew. He was tempted because of being manipulated by the Emperor (I think) or just a force vision... But he didn't.. Was not the first time Luke was tempted by the Dark Side.. He was ready to strike is father down.. He had to look at his hand to see the path he was going down to snap out of it.. He was not a kid at that moment. Like I said.. Flawed and its the reason I like Luke.
It's called regression and character assassination.
I just dont see it that way. I am no defender of TLJ.. Go read that thread.. But I always enjoyed the Luke parts of the story... I thought the one thing that the PT showed us is just how messed up the Jedi and their Dogma could be.. I had no problem with look coming to that realization and trying to step away..
He makes mistakes because he is still a young kid learning. He never learned from any of them. He was made into a pile of ****. But Rey... oh no, not Rey.
I thought that again TROS helped fix some of those Marry Sue moments.. She should have killed Chewie (just plot luck that she didnt) she is tempted and almost joins Kylo. She screws around with the Dark Side when she stabs Kylo... Lets face it... He let down his guard for her and dropped his weapon.. (All of this after beating her in the dual) yet she catches his saber and stabs him.. Cant help but think there is some dark side going on there.
The fact she was in that situation just shows her monumental failure and how she failed in everything after the OT. She regressed.
What did you want? A Marry Sue
Again I just don't see it that way.. Obviously she was not a failure. She loved her son and he knew it.. Its what brought him back.. Believe me I worked with troubled inner city Youth.. I have seen real failures at motherhood.
Yeah, it was in a ****** comic I think. Yavin 4 medal, sold off for another drink.
I dont read nor count comics as Canon.. Not too mention that leia has the medal herself.. So it seems he just left it behind.
That scene you described? Was all fake. Leia force projected that into her sons mind. Han didn't save anyone. He was a failed father, a failed husband, a failed rebellion leader, and his final act was getting stabbed by the son he failed.
This is assumptions that you are making (just like my explanation is) I choose to believe that it is Han.. Leia uses her powers to bring him back... Not a manipulation of the mind.. If your assumption is proven to be then that is unfortunate. First time viewing I figured it was just in Kylos mind... I was still fine with that. Leia manipulating him... Nah... I dont like that.. Besides how would she know how that conversation went down in TFA since much of that is repeated.
A failed Rebellion leader?? I guess if you think being a major playing in stopping the empire more then once a failure.. Well ok then.. What happened with his son.. Which actually was not his fault took a toll and he could not handle it.. When real people loose their kids it can often break up the family... He was not a perfect father (if we are to believe Kylo) but I dont think Han would be. But loosing your kid to the bad guys... Well... That's a hard thing to get over.
They literally did fight another war though???
Yes.. My point being... Any war that the OT characters had to go through was going to lesson the win at the end of ROTJ
It didn't do anything to the level of the ST. You are complaining because he lost a light-saber duel while the ST fundamentally shifted who the OT characters were.
Again I am not complaining that he lost a light-saber duel... I hate pretty much everything they did with Anakin as a character (especially in AOTC) and then when he finally becomes Vader... Well he Back fights a Jedi and cuts off his arm.. Kills kids... and Unarmed Aliens..
My comment about loosing to Obi wan is more about what little he did before that.. It was a lost opportunity.. Imagine him dueling with Mace and striking him down to save the Emperor.. How about a duel with some real jedi on some other planets.. Nope.. Little kids and unarmed aliens.. Again Lucas messed up the timeline.. and rushed Anakin's fall to the Dark Side.. BTW Game Of Thrones learned nothing from this
30 + years is a long time to remain the same... The characters grew and became imperfect.. But TROS fixed all of that for me... Had TROS no been the film it was I might be agreeing with you.. But I liked the film and thought it redeemed the issues I had with the other two films.
For me. the PT has no such film that redeems that series.
And so very true. Even I was ready to jump ship from the ST but TROS not only righted all the wrongs of TFA/TLJ but yes it even elevated the entire OT as well. Like jye said I now watch Han sliding into his seat in the cantina on SW4K77 and I just smile thinking of his full arc that comes to fruition in TROS.
