Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Khev]

Again, though, he *already told* a condensed and reformatted version of that story in ROTJ. Having a new "twins of the Force" and a takedown of the evil Emperor does nothing but undermine (or at least regurgitate) the story that Lucas had already told.

I disagree but to each his own.

Alternate versions of what a creator would've done with his IP is literally what fan fiction is.

Not quite. First off SW is no longer George's IP. Second you'd have to apply that erroneously broad definition of fan fiction to hundreds of sequels then, even those that are literal classics like ALIENS. Cameron completely retconned the life cycle of the alien to allow for his queen, something Scott and the original writers never intended. Now you can dismiss the sequel from your own personal canon but it ain't fan fiction. Hell by your definition you could even write off portions of films like ESB itself as fan fiction due to improvs and ad libs that George initially didn't like ("I know," etc.)

Look I'm not an idiot, I know why you guys are calling the ST fan fiction. It's just slang for "I'm so outraged by these films not telling the story I wanted to tell that I'm going to give them a label that objectively invalidates them!" But it ain't gonna work, sorry. If you don't like 'em then you just have to ignore them like so many have done with most of the EU and the PT.

 

[jye4ever]

ajp you simply won?t be able to get up from that Han / Vader defeat knock out punch from Khev please don?t try it just lay there and accept the count....

8..9..10! lol


I can?t believe all of this hatred of TROS just because Snoke turned out not to be Darth Plaqueis lol

Christ people hate it for the lack of an epic space battle and lame secondary characters like I do!


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[Khev]

ajp you simply won?t be able to get up from that Han / Vader defeat knock out punch from Khev please don?t try it just lay there and accept the count....

8..9..10! lol

As we speak he's calling out to the spirits of all the ST haters that came before him.

I can?t believe all of this hatred of TROS just because Snoke turned out not to be Darth Plaqueis lol

Yes ajp could you please once and for all explain why you think that Darth Plagueis was George's greatest creation so that we can finally understand why you keep circling back to that, lol.

 

[ajp4mgs]

@ Khev: If the only thing separating fan fiction from "official" is the license holder of the IP, you're certainly technically correct. But if I made a SW fan film with a plot that George Lucas would never have allowed, the only thing separating my fan fiction movie from TROS is the Disney copyright. Sure, these movies are "official" but how far removed from creator intent should things get before we balk at them?

And, Khev, how many times were you objecting to the ST last year and using "not connected with George Lucas" as your basis? Now because of tenuous connections to abandoned and revised prelim sequel plots, TROS has righted the ship? Hmmm . . . I'm thinking something's amiss.

@ jye

At the risk of boring every last person here with my TROS Palpatine grumblings, I just want to note that aside from objecting to how I perceive it as a slight to GL's intentions, there's also plenty of problems I have with his return from an execution standpoint. The TROS and extended universe logic is flimsy at best.

The story goes that Palps transferred his spirit out of his body before hitting the ground at the end of ROTJ. That means he can do spirit transfer before his physical body dies. But in TROS, he initially needs Rey to kill his physical body first before he can transfer his spirit to hers. How does that make any sense?

And why wait for Rey? If his Sith Eternal cultists were able to create a Force-sensitive Snoke who dominated Rey in Force mastery during TLJ, what's the deal with being tethered to a more feeble clone all this time? And if the answer is that his spiritual essence needs Palpatine blood/DNA, that's just ridiculous. Even with Rey, he'd have to subdue or end her own spiritual existence anyway.

So if Palpatine could transfer his spirit before his body went splat on the DS2, why wouldn't he have done it sooner? For example, why not let Mace Windu strike him down and take over Mace's Force-powerful, high-midichlorian body? Or better yet, Yoda's? Or better still, why not trick super-powerful Anakin into striking him down?

I guess I'm just not someone who can shove all the nonsense aside; not unless the rest of the film was executed brilliantly enough to have the incentive.

 

[spindrift]

ROGUE ONE still the best of recent SW films. SOLO is also excellent. I like the ST well enough but JJ had to pull a lot together in only one film...

 

[jye4ever]

@ Khev: If the only thing separating fan fiction from "official" is the license holder of the IP, you're certainly technically correct. But if I made a SW fan film with a plot that George Lucas would never have allowed, the only thing separating my fan fiction movie from TROS is the Disney copyright. Sure, these movies are "official" but how far removed from creator intent should things get before we balk at them?

And, Khev, how many times were you objecting to the ST last year and using "not connected with George Lucas" as your basis? Now because of tenuous connections to abandoned and revised prelim sequel plots, TROS has righted the ship? Hmmm . . . I'm thinking something's amiss.

@ jye

At the risk of boring every last person here with my TROS Palpatine grumblings, I just want to note that aside from objecting to how I perceive it as a slight to GL's intentions, there's also plenty of problems I have with his return from an execution standpoint. The TROS and extended universe logic is flimsy at best.

The story goes that Palps transferred his spirit out of his body before hitting the ground at the end of ROTJ. That means he can do spirit transfer before his physical body dies. But in TROS, he initially needs Rey to kill his physical body first before he can transfer his spirit to hers. How does that make any sense?

And why wait for Rey? If his Sith Eternal cultists were able to create a Force-sensitive Snoke who dominated Rey in Force mastery during TLJ, what's the deal with being tethered to a more feeble clone all this time? And if the answer is that his spiritual essence needs Palpatine blood/DNA, that's just ridiculous. Even with Rey, he'd have to subdue or end her own spiritual existence anyway.

So if Palpatine could transfer his spirit before his body went splat on the DS2, why wouldn't he have done it sooner? For example, why not let Mace Windu strike him down and take over Mace's Force-powerful, high-midichlorian body? Or better yet, Yoda's? Or better still, why not trick super-powerful Anakin into striking him down?

I guess I'm just not someone who can shove all the nonsense aside; not unless the rest of the film was executed brilliantly enough to have the incentive.

Well if its not in the movie it didn?t happen right....right.

His resurrection is left a mystery.

Did you accept a much less powerful force user like Maul being brought back from certain death?

Think about it when Palp fell down the shaft (shaft lol) the death star didn?t blow up right away and he was protected by his own dark aura where as Maul unlike Palpatine was literally cut in half with no dark aura.

As far as we know Palpatine utilized his mysterious teachings from Plaqueis.


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[JAWS]

I mean you can go anywhere on the internet or talk to any one and they just didn?t like the ST. The only people who talk about it in this thread are 2 people who kept it alive. Nobody else cares or talks about it. Like this is the only place where I see people talk about it. The rest of the world moved on.

Its at 83% on RT

I have only talked to one person who did not like the film.

Most people I know liked TFA and TROS. TLJ seems to be split among the casual fan. Most of the hardcore fans I know hate TLJ and think TFA is average at best.

Khev and jye prettt much need to bash the PT to make themselves feel better that the ST is garbage . Everybody else in this thread gives them straight facts on why the st is bad but they reply with

I don't frequent this thread enough to see what the straight facts are... I know that Jye has been disappointed with each film but comes around to liking them. Khev I believe like TFA (like most on this site seemed to) Loved TLJ (bit saw the error of his ways) and really loved TROS.

Me I really disliked TFA, hated TLJ, and loved TROS which helped rectify many of the issues I had with the other two films. I still think TLJ is garbage overall though and belongs at the bottom of the pile with AOTC.

? well PT sucks to? lol. Then jaws comes in every now cause he suddenly likes the ending now lol.

Not suddenly.. I have loved TROS since I first saw it. I have only seen it twice. I am curious to see how it stands up.

Like I understand you like it but bashing the PT to uplift this mess is hilarious. This franchise did a hell of a lot more damage then PT did. And the PT was heavy cgi, horrible dialogue and very boring most of the time

I said this back a few pages to another poster.. I would agree with the statement 100% as I think Khev might if TROS did not hit all the sweet spots for us. Since it did, we find it to be a worthy addition to the saga and thus helping make what things that were good about the previous two that much better and being a satisfying final chapter.

The PT gets brought up because it seems (to me anyways) that ST haters love to compare the PT to the ST so they can say just how bad the ST is. Since it seems to be accepted fact that the PT is awful. Because of that now the argument is which did more damage to the series.

For me its the PT and the treatment of Anakin / Vader that makes the PT the more damaging of the two trilogies.

I was fine with Leia, Really liked Luke, and Han was saved in TROS for me. The fact that Rey was the Emperor's granddaughter saved that plot thread for me also. Much less damaging then say how the [FONT=Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif]midichlorians changed everything I thought and knew about the force.

The Haters seem to have trouble letting this go also... As the pages and pages of tis thread and continuos YouTube channels show..

That is the way of things. The way of the Internet.
[/FONT]

 

[JAWS]

Well if its not in the movie it didn?t happen right....right.

His resurrection is left a mystery.

Did you accept a much less powerful force user like Maul being brought back from certain death?

Think about it when Palp fell down the shaft (shaft lol) the death star didn?t blow up right away and he was protected by his own dark aura where as Maul unlike Palpatine was literally cut in half with no dark aura.

As far as we know Palpatine utilized his mysterious teachings from Plaqueis.


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I am good with him being a clone with the Soul of the Emperor like the book stated.. Not because I think well if its in the book it must be fact.. But because it makes sense as its there on the screen. Explains why the emperor looks younger and how he did not survive a fall.. Its there on screen... Kind of

 

[Khev]

why wait for Rey? If his Sith Eternal cultists were able to create a Force-sensitive Snoke who dominated Rey in Force mastery during TLJ, what's the deal with being tethered to a more feeble clone all this time? And if the answer is that his spiritual essence needs Palpatine blood/DNA, that's just ridiculous.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I love the ridiculous stuff in TROS so I can't help you there. If you don't you don't.

Personally yeah I guess I'd assume that for the ritual to work it needs to be a Force sensitive direct descendant who strikes him down in anger. So not something that could be done with Kylo or any random peasant. If you reject it then so be it but I love that it feels reminiscent of those pulpy adventure movies that involve virgin sacrifice/rituals and whatnot. It also adds a fun dash of Thulsa Doom/Mola Ram to Palpatine's character that Ian was clearly having a ball portraying.

 

[Khev]

I am good with him being a clone with the Soul of the Emperor like the book stated.. Not because I think well if its in the book it must be fact.. But because it makes sense as its there on the screen. Explains why the emperor looks younger and how he did not survive a fall.. Its there on screen... Kind of

Yep I have no problem accepting the book's explanation of what Palpatine was in TROS because like you said it makes sense and fully supports what is shown on screen.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Well if its not in the movie it didn?t happen right....right.

His resurrection is left a mystery.

Did you accept a much less powerful force user like Maul being brought back from certain death?

Think about it when Palp fell down the shaft (shaft lol) the death star didn?t blow up right away and he was protected by his own dark aura where as Maul unlike Palpatine was literally cut in half with no dark aura.

As far as we know Palpatine utilized his mysterious teachings from Plaqueis.


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Dude, I think the Darth Maul resurrection is awful too. Especially with the canon explanation that he kept himself alive with "the power of his hate" or whatever the **** they use as the excuse.

If a villain dies, there's generally a good story purpose and payoff for doing it. Bringing that character back will inherently water that down. When it happens with the dead main villain that signified the full circle retribution arc that Anakin/Vader had in the Lucas saga, I just think it's way worse.

But neither one of us is gonna convince the other, and that's for the best. Be glad you see it the way you do. And BTW, I think your explanation of Palps surviving the DS2 fall is better than the official explanation of clone body spirit transfer. I can accept the most powerful Sith ever using the Force to keep himself from simply falling to his death much easier than I can accept sending his spirit to Exogol and sticking it in a ****ty clone body before hitting the ground.

After he brought himself down somewhere, he could've been escorted off DS2 by that purple-robed Imperial Dignitary who looked like Perry Farrell from Jane's Addiction.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I love the ridiculous stuff in TROS so I can't help you there. If you don't you don't.

Personally yeah I guess I'd assume that for the ritual to work it needs to be a Force sensitive direct descendant who strikes him down in anger. So not something that could be done with Kylo or any random peasant. If you reject it then so be it but I love that it feels reminiscent of those pulpy adventure movies that involve virgin sacrifice/rituals and whatnot. It also adds a fun dash of Thulsa Doom/Mola Ram to Palpatine's character that Ian was clearly having a ball portraying.

Yeah, just a case of different strokes for different folks. I dig the discussion, though, so the fact that we differ on these views is no big deal.

 

[Khev]

And, Khev, how many times were you objecting to the ST last year and using "not connected with George Lucas" as your basis?

Yes after aspects of TLJ were starting to sour for me Iger's tell all book really rubbed me the wrong way. I was starting to feel like the one-two punch of a problematic story that totally deviated from George's ideas was going to be too much.

Thankfully as I've said a number of times (and that JAWS has echoed above) TROS not only brought things BACK to George's ideas (it's an older idea, but it still checks out sir, lol) AND redeemed the "problematic" parts of the previous films caused a complete reversal in my fading enthusiasm for the ST.

 

[Khev]

Yeah, just a case of different strokes for different folks. I dig the discussion, though, so the fact that we differ on these views is no big deal.

Same!

 

[jye4ever]

Dude, I think the Darth Maul resurrection is awful too. Especially with the canon explanation that he kept himself alive with "the power of his hate" or whatever the **** they use as the excuse.

If a villain dies, there's generally a good story purpose and payoff for doing it. Bringing that character back will inherently water that down. When it happens with the dead main villain that signified the full circle retribution arc that Anakin/Vader had in the Lucas saga, I just think it's way worse.

But neither one of us is gonna convince the other, and that's for the best. Be glad you see it the way you do. And BTW, I think your explanation of Palps surviving the DS2 fall is better than the official explanation of clone body spirit transfer. I can accept the most powerful Sith ever using the Force to keep himself from simply falling to his death much easier than I can accept sending his spirit to Exogol and sticking it in a ****ty clone body before hitting the ground.

After he brought himself down somewhere, he could've been escorted off DS2 by that purple-robed Imperial Dignitary who looked like Perry Farrell from Jane's Addiction.



Yeah, just a case of different strokes for different folks. I dig the discussion, though, so the fact that we differ on these views is no big deal.

I?m ready for Die Hard 5 where Hans survived the fall and was resurrected by nano tech cultist lol

But in all honesty i?m ok with his transfer to a clone after the fall.




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[Khev]

I?m ready for Die Hard 5 where Hans survived the fall and was resurrected by nano tech cultist lol

I still think that people binging the Saga for the first time will have no trouble accepting Palps' return.

I mean if modern audiences didn't take any issue with Red Skull screaming, melting, and exploding into blue energy that shoots up into the air and then later returning as a floating zombie thing then I don't see why they'd have a problem with Palps screaming, falling, and exploding into blue energy that shoots up into the air and then later returning as a floating zombie thing, lol.

Zombie Unlimited Power Palps >>>>>> Zombie Red Skull the Polite and Helpful Guide, lol

 

[TheDucky]

ajp you simply won?t be able to get up from that Han / Vader defeat knock out punch from Khev please don?t try it just lay there and accept the count....

8..9..10! lol


I can?t believe all of this hatred of TROS just because Snoke turned out not to be Darth Plaqueis lol

Christ people hate it for the lack of an epic space battle and lame secondary characters like I do!


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You’ve said this like 5 times now, but people don’t hate TROS because Snoke wasn’t Plagueis... majority of people don’t even know who Plagueis was, they hate TROS because it is a bad movie in an awful trilogy with an ending that was thrown together last second to save face and cheap nostalgia that was bought right up. They hate it because they ended the Sith... ended the Jedi... reused the same story from the OT. Literally same plot lines and all.

Anyways, I can end this discussion in one sentence and not even you or Khev will have an excuse for it.

Total scenes in the ST with Luke, Han, and Leia: ZERO

That’s a damn tragedy. Mind boggling how that was allowed to happen.

 

[jye4ever]

I still think that people binging the Saga for the first time will have no trouble accepting Palps' return.

I mean if modern audiences didn't take any issue with Red Skull screaming, melting, and exploding into blue energy that shoots up into the air and then later returning as a floating zombie thing then I don't see why they'd have a problem with Palps screaming, falling, and exploding into blue energy that shoots up into the air and then later returning as a floating zombie thing, lol.

Zombie Unlimited Power Palps >>>>>> Zombie Red Skull the Polite and Helpful Guide, lol

holy crap polite helpful guide lol

You?ve said this like 5 times now, but people don?t hate TROS because Snoke wasn?t Plagueis... majority of people don?t even know who Plagueis was, they hate TROS because it is a bad movie in an awful trilogy with an ending that was thrown together last second to save face and cheap nostalgia that was bought right up. They hate it because they ended the Sith... ended the Jedi... reused the same story from the OT. Literally same plot lines and all.

Anyways, I can end this discussion in one sentence and not even you or Khev will have an excuse for it.

Total scenes in the ST with Luke, Han, and Leia: ZERO

That?s a damn tragedy. Mind boggling how that was allowed to happen.

I agree with you it was a damn shame and very noticeable and unfortunate.

Honestly I think behind the scenes there might have been some very deep and personal drama and financial animosity amongst the 3.

But then again Ford did speak at Hamill walk of fame star ceremony so who knows.

But yes very infuriating we the fans didn?t get to experience that.




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[jye4ever]

I would also like to add this very unfortunate fact but it is very infuriating and sad for me to say that the battlefront 2 game has better space battles in the cut scenes than the final movie of the Skywalker trilogy!

That is messed up.


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[Khev]

Total scenes in the ST with Luke, Han, and Leia: ZERO

That’s a damn tragedy. Mind boggling how that was allowed to happen.

I would also like to add this very unfortunate fact but it is very infuriating and sad for me to say that the battlefront 2 game has better space battles in the cut scenes than the final movie of the Skywalker trilogy!

That is messed up.

Both valid criticisms for sure.

 

[TheDucky]

As we speak he's calling out to the spirits of all the ST haters that came before him.



Yes ajp could you please once and for all explain why you think that Darth Plagueis was George's greatest creation so that we can finally understand why you keep circling back to that, lol.

Plagueis would have been better.

He really did master the force and could save himself from dying... and did. Weakened by Palpatine’s attack, he went to the unknown regions to plan his assaults against Palpatine and build up his army... of Yuuzhan Vong. Using his massive fortune, he helps funds the rebellion to weaken the Empire, but, surprisingly, they won. He finds out it was Luke Skywalker who robbed him of his revenge, who corrected the galaxy back to peace. Plagueis wants to rule. We see Ben Skywalker and Rey Solo as Jedi Knights, along with a rebuilt Jedi Order with Grand Master Skywalker. Plagueis manipulates Ben and we see him turn to the Dark Side. Ben leads the V8ng assaults against the new Republic. We see Leia, Han, Chewbacca, Lando all fighting in tis galactic war. Luke and Rey battles Plagueis and his apprentice, Darth Ren. And we get the reveal... “I am your Grandfather.” Plagueis manipulated the force to create life... it was he who created Anakin Skywalker. Luke, Rey, and Darth Ren (Ben) end up cutoff from Plagueis. Force Ghost Anakin appears to Kylo and tells him don’t make the same mistakes as I have. Anakin talks to his son and grabdson. Along with help from Luke, Ben, is finally redeemed. The three Skywalkers fight against the very being that sparked there existence. Luke becomes badly wounded, but Rey and Ben finish Plagueis off. But, Plagueis can save himself from dying and takes over Luke’s body, transferring his consciousness into Luke’s and healing Luke. Rey and Ben are fighting Luke (now Plagueis), as all the force ghosts appear to help the Skywalkers in their final fight and they manage to give Luke back control for a moment... to finally end Plagueis. Luke and Ben have a heart to heart moment as he tells his son the only way to end Plagueis once and for all is to “kill me.” Ben strikes the killing blow and we see Luke’s ghost appear telling his son and niece the Force will always be there with them.

10x better than the ST.