Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[ironwez20]

Can you give me a couple examples of bad acting that isn't from Little Anakin or AOTC Anakin?

I seriously don't have a problem with at least 75% of the acting in the PT. Probably the same for the ST, but I'd need to rewatch it again...

I haven't really defended the PT acting, I'm just saying it isn't awful and at the least average and mostly doesn't take anything away. I think the guys that did a really great job are Neeson, Lee, McDiarmid, McGregor, voice acting was pretty great throughout...





https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-08/heartbreak-syndrome-and-takotsubo-are-real-for-heart-disease/9523662

It is a real medical condition. I seriously don't understand the hate towards that.



Nowhere, but the fact she couldn't even try to move a few at a time to create a hole is a joke. And if she couldn't even do the bare minimum of lifting rocks, she had no business even training super powered Rey who knew everything.



Rian was the one overthinking when adding that. You have to operate withing the confines of the established universe. The ST rarely does.




It's Darth Vader, come on




Which line? Not yet was kind of bad, otherwise it was all fine to great.



God that is dumb. Why again didn't they help Luke then?

What about C-3PO with his "all my friends" BS line.





Why do you use me liking the PT as a defense of the ST? Like, both movies can have bad lines.




A book revealed Plagueis.




You say to have fun with my imagination, but that's the exact thinking on why people hate the PT...





I'm serious. His motion in the senate had more of an impact than any of those characters. He was gullible enough to do it and give Palpatine more power.




Yup. At least we hate TLJ together







Fair enough.



You are doing that with the ST though.... literally picking and choosing anything that aligns with your narrative and calling BS on everything else. You are doing it right now using me liking the PT as a defense of the ST What happened to judging a film on it's own merits?




When? If I did, that was a joke.

I gave my rankings and the OT scored the same personally and higher critically than the PT.

Holy ****, come on man. That's messed up to say that. It was the toxic fans harassing them non-stop. The fact you want to blame the film and not people's actions makes me think you were one of them.

As far as Lucas, that is wrong.

"I felt that I really wanted to put the company somewhere in a larger entity which could protect it. Disney is a huge corporation. They have all kinds of capabilities and facilities, so that there?s a lot of strength that is gained by this ?I?m doing this so that the films will have a longer life, and so that more fans and people can enjoy them in the future. It?s a very big universe I?ve created and there are a lot of stories that are sitting in there.?

That's why he sold it, to preserve it.




And once again, you pick one thing to attack with....

I gave out a line of like 30 things that stood on their own.

I find it hilarious thst he said he could dismantle each post line for line but can?t cause he knows deep down it just sucks way to hard.

People brought down the ST hard and he has no defense except ? well the pt ruined my childhood and didn?t have the OT stuff so I hate it?

 

[TheDucky]

I find it hilarious thst he said he could dismantle each post line for line but can?t cause he knows deep down it just sucks way to hard.

People brought down the ST hard and he has no defense except ? well the pt ruined my childhood and didn?t have the OT stuff so I hate it?

Yeah, plus the age defense.

This is how I imagine ST defenders after watching the ST and seeing all the OT heroes die, no wrap up, just Rey Rey Rey, they gone through a struggle and are beat up, but still return because they are addicted, like Jesse, an addict who still returns to cooking.

 

[aussiebottt]

Your love for the PT appears to have blinded you to the point where you'll seemingly pick and choose any criteria that props up the PT and diminishes the ST.

But that's exactly what you do make sense of the ST.

 

[Khev]

You are doing that with the ST though.... literally picking and choosing anything that aligns with your narrative and calling BS on everything else.

No. I don't play the "narrative" game like the NPC's on either side (SJW's or Fandom Menace.) I understand why a lot of people (many who grew up with the OT like me) disliked the ST but I don't need to try and invalidate every criticism leveled against them. I simply disagree with them. I don't even disagree with all the criticisms but for me they aren't dealbreakers.

You are doing it right now using me liking the PT as a defense of the ST What happened to judging a film on it's own merits?

Using you liking the PT as a defense of the ST? I don't even know what you're referring to. I've stated the merits as I see them for TROS many times over and they have nothing whatsoever to do with you liking the PT. Hell I've been talking about this movie for three months now and have interacted with you a comparatively small amount of that time. Comparing pros and cons of various entries in the Saga can be fun but once you start claiming that AOTC and ROTS are *not* filled with really bad dialogue, awkward and unconvincing acting and woeful low-res CG visuals that were subpar even on the years they were released and that the ST was somehow worse than that straight across the board then yeah you and I going back and forth to any extent regarding the films is pretty silly.

I can't relate to your take and you can't relate to mine and I'm fine with that.

At the end of the day TROS hit a bottom of the 9th grand slam for me to close the Saga in ways that were almost in exact alignment with what I've been hoping and wishing we could have gotten for literal decades on end. But if you want to bash it then bash it. If you want to say that the PT was superior go right ahead. For me there just isn't anything to be gained in spending a lot of time and energy refuting such claims. Obviously the movie wasn't everyone's cup of tea. *shrugs* That's just the way it is.

You know my hatred for RJ, but since I like the PT don't know how much this means,

but Knives Out was..... a..... good.... movie.....


That was tough to type.

No it appears that in spite of how unlikable RJ might come off as a person that he apparently delivered a quality whodunit so I will indeed check it out.

 

[TaliBane]

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I think the ST would have been a lot better had they doubled down on TLJ's story rather than course correcting in TROS. They already had a story outlined and planned (even a full script) on what was to happen after TLJ. Just like TFA, JJ Abrams took the very safe route. IMO, TLJ might be maligned by some fans, but there could have been a good arc to be had if they only stuck to their guns.

I enjoyed TROS, but to me it takes too little risks. They even "fake" deaths only to take it back a few scenes later. There are obvious dangling plot lines that needs looking outside the movie to resolve (novels, videogames and comics).

Really not sure what you mean by that. The guns you're talking about were totally out of blanks by the end of TLJ.

To me TLJ pretty much sort of ended the ST story right there. Unlike the end of ESB, where there were massive questions - character, story and world questions - on every level that even non-fans were eager to see resolved, there was literally nothing that was driving people to theaters in the wake of TLJ: no burning character, story or overarching theme questions at all.

It's the reason Palps had to not only be pulled out of the hat, but become pretty much the spine and heart of TROS - there was nothing left after TLJ to drive character or story for the final film, let alone interest.

Even with the towering figure of Palps - which was a genius stroke from a marketing/brand perspective - the movie underperformed and got a sort of middling-meh response from fans, so imagine if they'd tried to continue with what little tattered story/character threads they had left after TLJ.

 

[e30ernest]

Really not sure what you mean by that. The guns you're talking about were totally out of blanks by the end of TLJ.

To me TLJ pretty much sort of ended the ST story right there. Unlike the end of ESB, where there were massive questions - character, story and world questions - on every level that even non-fans were eager to see resolved, there was literally nothing that was driving people to theaters in the wake of TLJ: no burning character, story or overarching theme questions at all.

It's the reason Palps had to not only be pulled out of the hat, but become pretty much the spine and heart of TROS - there was nothing left after TLJ to drive character or story for the final film, let alone interest.

Even with the towering figure of Palps - which was a genius stroke from a marketing/brand perspective - the movie underperformed and got a sort of middling-meh response from fans, so imagine if they'd tried to continue with what little tattered story/character threads they had left after TLJ.

TLJ ended with Kylo as the supreme leader now, the rebels were scattered with very few members left to lead and fight. Rey would have been lost and the only link she had to the Jedi would have been the text. Rey as a nobody who descended from nobody would have been a great foundation for a new order of Force users. The war and First Order being funded by galactic corporations also set the tone of the Rebels striking an alliance, a lesser evil which could also sprout a new storyline (deal with the devil type) after the Skywalker saga.

I think they could have written a good story to go through from that. Instead, we ended up with TROS which was fun to watch, but hardly coherent. They didn't have to go with the discarded script (they couldn't use it anyway with Carrie's passing). But they could have expanded with the elements of TLJ.

Even the MCU had its misses (Thor: The Dark World, IM3 or IM2) but they never did a 180 like SW. In the end we got a consistent story arc over many movies that worked out. If LF held its ground and expanded on the storylines from TLJ, we could probably ended up with a better overall arc which would overshadow the shortcomings of the individual films.

 

[TaliBane]

TLJ ended with Kylo as the supreme leader now, the rebels were scattered with very few members left to lead and fight. Rey would have been lost and the only link she had to the Jedi would have been the text. Rey as a nobody who descended from nobody would have been a great foundation for a new order of Force users. The war and First Order being funded by galactic corporations also set the tone of the Rebels striking an alliance, a lesser evil which could also sprout a new storyline (deal with the devil type) after the Skywalker saga.

I think they could have written a good story to go through from that. Instead, we ended up with TROS which was fun to watch, but hardly coherent. They didn't have to go with the discarded script (they couldn't use it anyway with Carrie's passing). But they could have expanded with the elements of TLJ.

Even the MCU had its misses (Thor: The Dark World, IM3 or IM2) but they never did a 180 like SW. In the end we got a consistent story arc over many movies that worked out. If LF held its ground and expanded on the storylines from TLJ, we could probably ended up with a better overall arc which would overshadow the shortcomings of the individual films.

But what powerful, mythic moments is any of that really generating? A moody-emo Vader fanboy who occasionally has a frustrating tantrum and loses lightsaber fights to untrained girls is the big boss and Hux is his sniveling sidekick - what does that get you?

And at the end of ANH the Empire seemed down to a couple of ships and Vader, then boom - in comes a massive Imperial fleet and forces that were stationed away from the DS and the Empire's back in business again. Did anyone seriously think that was the end of the resistance in TLJ (even though they took it to kind of laughable levels, down to literally five people and a single blaster,) that we wouldn't see some massive rebel fleet in the next movie?

And Rey's lost and has a book - leading to what? Her beating up the moody emo again now that he's in charge? A key problem is that I had no clue what Rey's struggle/journey was in the whole trilogy in the first place - Luke's mythic journey is following the mysteries of a newly discovered family bloodline, who and what his father/family was and how that discovery (and how he responds to the revelations) could impact the entire galaxy.

They obviously tried to closely copy that with Rey (like literally almost beat for beat - desert planet, no parents, seemingly a nobody, crash-landed/hunted droid, etc etc) but it's all so muddled and weakly done and then suddenly trying to back out and say "nope folks, she really IS a nobody" undercuts expectations (like pretty much all of TLJ - it's far easier to tear down than create) but the problem is that just gets you to a "who cares?" place again. Being a nobody isn't exactly mythic. Maybe they could have pulled a "I'm Spartacus" moment, but that would have taken storytelling chops that just weren't available to the ST filmmakers.

And rebels teaming with corporations? Other than some funny meta-commentary on Disney and SW fans, who cares? The title crawl would rival TPM in its soporific potential - "The resistance has regrouped and formed an alliance with galactic corporations..." I mean seriously - *yawn*

What you're missing in all the above is the building mythic power and huge character/story cliff-hangers that were a part of the OT, things that were literally painful not knowing in the wake of ESB, even for people who weren't super SW fans. The whole world wanted to know whether Vader was really Luke's father. Love TLJ or hate it, or anything in between, there is just no disputing it failed at generating any momentum or interest for a third "concluding chapter" (esp. in the way ESB did.)

 

[jye4ever]

While I think Talibane is pretty much on point they could have continued with the TLJ plot in this rather shocking manner.

Are you ready.

What if....

WHAT IF....

IX is revealed that Kylo was NOT Han/Leia son BUT he was Palpatine?s slow aging son imbedded with clone / baby yoda dna!

Not grandson BUT HIS SON!

Show emperor either in flashbacks only or still have him show up in person like he did in TROS but Kylo remains a villain.

This time instead of his apprentice turning on him like Vader did Kylo sticks with him.

It will take all the Jedi to then defeat both.

That sounds almost as shocking as I am your father doesn?t it lol

That being said Rey Palpatine was just as effective if you ask me.


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[aussiebottt]

While I think Talibane is pretty much on point they could have continued with the TLJ plot in this rather shocking manner.

Are you ready.

What if....

WHAT IF....

IX is revealed that Kylo was NOT Han/Leia son BUT he was Palpatine?s slow aging son imbedded with clone / baby yoda dna!

Not grandson BUT HIS SON!

That sounds almost as shocking as I am your father doesn?t it lol


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Well done, Jye. Did you come up with that all by yourself or did Khev tell you to post that? lol

 

[e30ernest]

But what powerful, mythic moments is any of that really generating? A moody-emo Vader fanboy who occasionally has a frustrating tantrum and loses lightsaber fights to untrained girls is the big boss and Hux is his sniveling sidekick - what does that get you?

And at the end of ANH the Empire seemed down to a couple of ships and Vader, then boom - in comes a massive Imperial fleet and forces that were stationed away from the DS and the Empire's back in business again. Did anyone seriously think that was the end of the resistance in TLJ (even though they took it to kind of laughable levels, down to literally five people and a single blaster,) that we wouldn't see some massive rebel fleet in the next movie?

And Rey's lost and has a book - leading to what? Her beating up the moody emo again now that he's in charge? A key problem is that I had no clue what Rey's struggle/journey was in the whole trilogy in the first place - Luke's mythic journey is following the mysteries of a newly discovered family bloodline, who and what his father/family was and how that discovery (and how he responds to the revelations) could impact the entire galaxy.

They obviously tried to closely copy that with Rey (like literally almost beat for beat - desert planet, no parents, seemingly a nobody, crash-landed/hunted droid, etc etc) but it's all so muddled and weakly done and then suddenly trying to back out and say "nope folks, she really IS a nobody" undercuts expectations (like pretty much all of TLJ - it's far easier to tear down than create) but the problem is that just gets you to a "who cares?" place again. Being a nobody isn't exactly mythic. Maybe they could have pulled a "I'm Spartacus" moment, but that would have taken storytelling chops that just weren't available to the ST filmmakers.

And rebels teaming with corporations? Other than some funny meta-commentary on Disney and SW fans, who cares? The title crawl would rival TPM in its soporific potential - "The resistance has regrouped and formed an alliance with galactic corporations..." I mean seriously - *yawn*

What you're missing in all the above is the building mythic power and huge character/story cliff-hangers that were a part of the OT, things that were literally painful not knowing in the wake of ESB, even for people who weren't super SW fans. The whole world wanted to know whether Vader was really Luke's father. Love TLJ or hate it, or anything in between, there is just no disputing it failed at generating any momentum or interest for a third "concluding chapter" (esp. in the way ESB did.)

Well yes you will need some "powerful mythic moments". I just gave examples of strings that can be expanded on, not story beats that would be the basis of a complete film. You can have mythic moments without essentially doing obvious u-turns in the way ROTS did.

 

[jye4ever]

Well done, Jye. Did you come up with that all by yourself or did Khev tell you post that? lol

Duh of course khev helped...

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[Khev]

To me TLJ pretty much sort of ended the ST story right there. Unlike the end of ESB, where there were massive questions - character, story and world questions - on every level that even non-fans were eager to see resolved, there was literally nothing that was driving people to theaters in the wake of TLJ: no burning character, story or overarching theme questions at all.

So true. "How are they going to make me care about what happens next" should *not* be the only lingering question on everyone's mind when the second movie in a trilogy ends, lol. Probably would have been best (at least as far as generating interest) to end the movie with Palpatine's mysterious transmission. Hell imagine if they structured it so that *he* was the only one that answered the Rebellion's call for help.

"They heard us, but no one is responding. *heads lower* Wait! I'm getting something!"

"Help?? Yes! Who is it!"

And then the crackle over the dusty speaker as Palpatine's unmistakable laugh echoes through their base.

While I think Talibane is pretty much on point they could have continued with the TLJ plot in this rather shocking manner.

Are you ready.

What if....

WHAT IF....

IX is revealed that Kylo was NOT Han/Leia son BUT he was Palpatine?s slow aging son imbedded with clone / baby yoda dna!

Not grandson BUT HIS SON!

Show emperor either in flashbacks only or still have him show up in person like he did in TROS but Kylo remains a villain.

This time instead of his apprentice turning on him like Vader did Kylo sticks with him.

It will take all the Jedi to then defeat both.

That sounds almost as shocking as I am your father doesn?t it lol

That being said Rey Palpatine was just as effective if you ask me.

That could have worked too though I do like Dark Side Rey on the DSII wreckage as the result of her being a Palpatine.

Well done, Jye. Did you come up with that all by yourself or did Khev tell you to post that? lol

I am every voice he has ever heard inside his head, lol.

 

[jye4ever]

So true. "How are they going to make me care about what happens next" should *not* be the only lingering question on everyone's mind when the second movie in a trilogy ends, lol. Probably would have been best (at least as far as generating interest) to end the movie with Palpatine's mysterious transition. Hell imagine if they structured it so that *he* was the only one that answered the Rebellion's call for help.

"They heard us, but no one is responding. *heads lower* Wait! I'm getting something!"

"Help?? Yes! Who is it!"

And then the crackle over the dusty speaker as Palpatine's unmistakable laugh echoes through their base.



That could have worked due though I do like Dark Side Rey on the DSII wreckage as the result of her being a Palpatine.



I am every voice he has ever heard inside his head, lol.

A. Holy crap that ending would?ve elevated TLJ into RO territory with the camera zooming in on Leia face in horror (instead of broom CEO kid) hearing Palpatine while Luke not being there to comfort the resistance! Hnnnng Why did you come up with this Khev why why it burns it burns the power of JAWS compels you!


B. lol @ every voice


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[Khev]

A. Holy crap that ending would?ve elevated TLJ into RO territory with Leia face in horrible shock hearing Palpatine while Luke not being there to comfort the resistance! Hnnnng

You're right it would have been the literal opposite of RO's ending with instead of Leia smiling and saying "hope" her face is one of shock and dread and then cut to credits.

But Broom Boy was good too I guess, lol.

Why did you come up with this Khev why why it burns it burns the power of JAWS compels you!

 

[jye4ever]

You're right it would have been the literal opposite of RO's ending with instead of Leia smiling and saying "hope" her face is one of shock and dread and then cut to credits.

But Broom Boy was good too I guess, lol.

Holy crap now THAT is what I call pod ra....poetry , it rhymes!


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[JAWS]

So true. "How are they going to make me care about what happens next" should *not* be the only lingering question on everyone's mind when the second movie in a trilogy ends, lol. Probably would have been best (at least as far as generating interest) to end the movie with Palpatine's mysterious transmission. Hell imagine if they structured it so that *he* was the only one that answered the Rebellion's call for help.

"They heard us, but no one is responding. *heads lower* Wait! I'm getting something!"

"Help?? Yes! Who is it!"

And then the crackle over the dusty speaker as Palpatine's unmistakable laugh echoes through their base.

.

THAT..... Would have helped TLJ a lot... Entirely too cool of an idea for RJ though.

 

[JAWS]

I find it hilarious thst he said he could dismantle each post line for line but can?t cause he knows deep down it just sucks way to hard.

People brought down the ST hard and he has no defense except ? well the pt ruined my childhood and didn?t have the OT stuff so I hate it?

I think Khev don't what to put in the effort as nothing he is going to say will change anyone's minds. Ducky already has stated that he has no issues with the acting.. other then little Anakin and AOTC Anakin..

If you want a complete take down of the PT I say just put the PT films in and hit play..

I never said the PT ruined my Childhood... It did however ruin the main villain of SW and SW as a whole for me. TROS actually helped with my enjoyment of the two ST films and the PT films...

Yeah, plus the age defense.

This is how I imagine ST defenders after watching the ST and seeing all the OT heroes die, no wrap up, just Rey Rey Rey, they gone through a struggle and are beat up, but still return because they are addicted, like Jesse, an addict who still returns to cooking.

The age defense is your blinded love for the PT.. And that is fine.. I still love The Black Hole, Orca, and Tron

Obviously you have not read what we all have been saying... We got a wrap up.. We all were very happy with how the film ended and the path our heroes ended up on.. Those that don't like TROS are the ones that are struggling.

 

[JAWS]

Can you give me a couple examples of bad acting that isn't from Little Anakin or AOTC Anakin?

I seriously don't have a problem with at least 75% of the acting in the PT. Probably the same for the ST, but I'd need to rewatch it again...

I haven't really defended the PT acting, I'm just saying it isn't awful and at the least average and mostly doesn't take anything away. I think the guys that did a really great job are Neeson, Lee, McDiarmid, McGregor, voice acting was pretty great throughout...






Which line? Not yet was kind of bad, otherwise it was all fine to great.

Here is the scene.. If you have no issues with it that's fine.. No problem.. I see all sorts of issues.. The awful Saber duel, Sam Jackson's "He's the Traitor" and his grown of struggle, Palps awful faces, Anakin's entrance in the room (What a strange take)..

The goofy back and forth between Mace and Palps

Palps "Kill him Anakin he's a traitor"
Mace "He's the Traitor"

Mace "He's too dangerous to keep alive"
Palps "I'm too weak"

Palps "You're dumb"
Mace "No you're Dumb"

How about "No. No. No. No..." Delivery.

Sam Jacksons scream when he gets his arm cut off. I imagine that is hard for an actor who has played a bad ass his entire career to scream in pain. So I understand

Anakin is perfectly consistently boring.

Other then moments in TLJ there is noting in the ST that is consistently cringe worthy that goes on for as long as that scene.. And that is supposed to be a huge moment of the film... I did not even add the original Palps duel with the 4 jedi.. Yikes..

All that stuff just really took me out of the film... Just like Canto Bight and Haldo did in TLJ.


But I can still watch it and find some enjoyment out of it.. It feels more like SW then TFA and TLJ.. Its not as well made as either film but it does feel like SW.. Other then the final Saber duel, I hate the look and feel of TFA. TLJ looks better but as a whole.. Meh.

 

[Khev]

I think Khev don't what to put in the effort as nothing he is going to say will change anyone's minds. Ducky already has stated that he has no issues with the acting.. other then little Anakin and AOTC Anakin..

Yep, exactly.

If you want a complete take down of the PT I say just put the PT films in and hit play..

The goofy back and forth between Mace and Palps

Palps "Kill him Anakin he's a traitor"
Mace "He's the Traitor"

Mace "He's too dangerous to keep alive"
Palps "I'm too weak"

Palps "Your dumb"
Mace "No you're Dumb"

I still love The Black Hole, Orca, and Tron

Same!

At least I think I still love TBH. Haven't watched it in close to a decade. I really should revisit it on Disney+

Obviously you have not read what we all have been saying... We got a wrap up.. We all were very happy with how the film ended and the path our heroes ended up on.. Those that don't like TROS are the ones that are struggling.

Yep. I got what I wanted so I have no frustration that needs to be expended in any forced debates with anyone who can't relate to my experience in any way.

But I can still watch it and find some enjoyment out of it.. It feels more like SW then TFA and TLJ.. Its not as well made as either film but it does feel like SW.. Other then the final Saber duel, I hate the look and feel of TFA. TLJ looks better but as a whole.. Meh.

I too have enough nostalgia (if that's the right word, not sure when it comes to the PT lol) for them that I inevitably find myself revisiting them every 3-5 years, especially TPM. There are definitely moments here and there in each film that have redeeming value even if the overall productions were greatly subpar and made certain characters so lame that I'll never accept them as canon.

TFA I still love and yes to me it even feels like SW. TLJ gets a pass because it's beautifully shot and holds my interest from beginning to end and the only characters I don't care for are the new ones (Holdo and Rose) so no harm no foul for me. Plus I really love all the Luke scenes especially him and Yoda.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Omg when will this constant bickering ****ing end between which is better the pt or st. Its like comparing **** to **** and choosing which smells better (or which smells worse, it doesn't mean its better its just a matter of opinion and or taste not based on facts). People are passionate about their opinions, there is no objectivity. if you like the pt better, great stop banging your head against the wall trying to convince people its better than ST and visa versa. All these debates are dumb and go nowhere, nobody convinces anyone no matter how well written their point is on either side. Its futile and a complete waste of time