Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[guyver1]

Why not just order it online then.


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The sad thing is I usually by the blu rays lately just to get the digital code and then I just stream it on my Fire TV, Apple TV and Roku and store away the actual blu ray , barely to be touched again

 

[e30ernest]

PT vs ST defenders be like:

 

[guyver1]

PT vs ST defenders be like:

It’s annoying they label it Secondary or Sequel Trilogy

 

[Prime Clone]

Like Star Wars and Star Trek, it doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. I like both the PT and ST (but it DOES give me comfort seeing the ST get bashed instead of the PT for a change )

But I think most agree the OT is the ultimate, and is the main reason fans of a certain age care for the PT or ST anyway.

 

[e30ernest]

It’s annoying they label it Secondary or Sequel Trilogy

Haha yes. I still read "ST" as "Star Trek" in my mind whenever I go to this thread.

 

[jye4ever]

The sad thing is I usually by the blu rays lately just to get the digital code and then I just stream it on my Fire TV, Apple TV and Roku and store away the actual blu ray , barely to be touched again

What I meant to say is just buy the Blu-ray online so you don?t have to go to the store lol


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[Khev]

They didn?t need to change all that much to the point of bringing in Palpatine. The road map was blown up as they scrambled to fix Star Wars after TLJ.

Yes there was definitely an element of that. However their "fix" not only worked in its own right but also redeemed TLJ in the process so their roadmap being blown up actually turned into a double win.

Not from the examples I posted above of terrible shots/visuals, poor acting, and CRAP dialogue.

This just shows that when it comes to SW outside of the OT you and I really don't have much (if any) common ground. So if it seems like I'm being dismissive of your long posts that is why. Your love for the PT appears to have blinded you to the point where you'll seemingly pick and choose any criteria that props up the PT and diminishes the ST. Heck you yourself already said that you hold the PT higher than the *OT* so of course we won't ever see eye to eye with regard to PT vs. ST.

I could dismantle your posts line by line but why, so I could bash the PT for the 500th time? Not much sport in that. These are films that were so bad they had Ahmed Best contemplating suicide, turned Jake Lloyd to a life of crime and caused the creator of his own IP to just up and sell the whole thing with the hopes that someone could restore the brand to something close to its former glory so for me to pick them apart at this point in time, especially in a discussion with someone who loves them like you do would just feel mean.

The ST has a goofy line here and there (mostly in TLJ) but the dialogue isn't *pervasively* bad like the PT, on the whole it's actually quite good and that does include TLJ as well.

51% on RT, lower than TPM, was the end result.

Rottentomatoes? Really? Probably *the* most disgraced review site on the internet? Oh man running to them for cover just hurts your credibility even more. Okay I guess TLJ does objectively destroy the entire PT by your own admission then if you want to go by them. See what I did there, RT is *not* your friend. Man up and let your opinions stand on their own.

Like JAWS said that's cool if you love the PT, clearly you experienced them at an age and mindset where they could really be something special to you. But comparing them to the ST just isn't a debate that I feel is worth putting my energy into.

 

[Khev]

I should probably just watch TROS again before asking this, but I'm not sure I have it in me (that's what Threepio said!) Plus I might not be any more enlightened anyway...

Was Snoke just a vessel for Palps' consciousness,

No.

or did he have his own? If so, was it Plagueis or someone else?

Snoke had his own separate consciousness. According to the novelization his body was a clone of Plagueis but like a normal clone he had a different consciousness. Or if you want to ignore the book you don't have to assume he was a Plageuis clone but he still had his own separate consciousness.

If he was Palps, why did he want Rey dead one movie and want her to kill him the next?

He wasn't Palps.

Did Luke and Leia know who Rey was all along?

Luke definitely didn't know all along, Leia probably found out after TLJ once she started training her.

 

[ironwez20]

It?s not up for debate cause you know you?d easily lose it.

 

[e30ernest]

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I think the ST would have been a lot better had they doubled down on TLJ's story rather than course correcting in TROS. They already had a story outlined and planned (even a full script) on what was to happen after TLJ. Just like TFA, JJ Abrams took the very safe route. IMO, TLJ might be maligned by some fans, but there could have been a good arc to be had if they only stuck to their guns.

I enjoyed TROS, but to me it takes too little risks. They even "fake" deaths only to take it back a few scenes later. There are obvious dangling plot lines that needs looking outside the movie to resolve (novels, videogames and comics).

 

[Prime Clone]

No.



Snoke had his own separate consciousness. According to the novelization his body was a clone of Plagueis but like a normal clone he had a different consciousness. Or if you want to ignore the book you don't have to assume he was a Plageuis clone but he still had his own separate consciousness.



He wasn't Palps.



Luke definitely didn't know all along, Leia probably found out after TLJ once she started training her.

Thanks Khev! One last thing, when Palps said he had died many times before, does that suggest past lives pre-Sheev? Or just since the cloning experimentation?

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I think the ST would have been a lot better had they doubled down on TLJ's story rather than course correcting in TROS.

Me too. My main complaint about TROS is it's a complete 180 on TLJ. They should have taken Kylo as supreme villain and run with it.

That said, the Palps resurrection was a nice nod to the EU.

 

[jye4ever]

Yes there was definitely an element of that. However their "fix" not only worked in its own right but also redeemed TLJ in the process so their roadmap being blown up actually turned into a double win.



This just shows that when it comes to SW outside of the OT you and I really don't have much (if any) common ground. So if it seems like I'm being dismissive of your long posts that is why. Your love for the PT appears to have blinded you to the point where you'll seemingly pick and choose any criteria that props up the PT and diminishes the ST. Heck you yourself already said that you hold the PT higher than the *OT* so of course we won't ever see eye to eye with regard to PT vs. ST.

I could dismantle your posts line by line but why, so I could bash the PT for the 500th time? Not much sport in that. These are films that were so bad they had Ahmed Best contemplating suicide, turned Jake Lloyd to a life of crime and caused the creator of his own IP to just up and sell the whole thing with the hopes that someone could restore the brand to something close to its former glory so for me to pick them apart at this point in time, especially in a discussion with someone who loves them like you do would just feel mean.

The ST has a goofy line here and there (mostly in TLJ) but the dialogue isn't *pervasively* bad like the PT, on the whole it's actually quite good and that does include TLJ as well.



Rottentomatoes? Really? Probably *the* most disgraced review site on the internet? Oh man running to them for cover just hurts your credibility even more. Okay I guess TLJ does objectively destroy the entire PT by your own admission then if you want to go by them. See what I did there, RT is *not* your friend. Man up and let your opinions stand on their own.

Like JAWS said that's cool if you love the PT, clearly you experienced them at an age and mindset where they could really be something special to you. But comparing them to the ST just isn't a debate that I feel is worth putting my energy into.

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[Khev]

Thanks Khev!

Sure!

One last thing, when Palps said he had died many times before, does that suggest past lives pre-Sheev? Or just since the cloning experimentation?

In the film he actually just says that he has died before, not many times. So he was just referring to his one "death" in ROTJ.

Me too. My main complaint about TROS is it's a complete 180 on TLJ. They should have taken Kylo as supreme villain and run with it.

So Trevorrow's "Duel of the Fates" then? I remember way back when that you were pretty excited about how he would craft a finale that would be a tribute to all eight prior episodes. Do you think that the leaked script would have given you what you were looking for?

 

[punisher1974]

So true. I totally get people rejecting the ST for not showcasing the OT's main characters the way they wanted but they are still well constructed films on pretty much every level which is why they're so great for some of us who *do* like the direction they went. If these were all brand new characters then no one would be outraged that some hermit spilled milk on his beard or that some vice admiral sacrificed herself instead of a red fish guy. Obviously these movies do contain established, beloved, and iconic characters so audiences don't just judge them on their merits as films (and I include myself with this) but rather on how *they* think the story was supposed to go. Which is fine.

They took some risks and some worked and some didn't. I'm still annoyed with how RJ lashed out at fans who didn't like TLJ but I'd be lying if I said that I didn't think that his risks paid off now that we have TROS.

I know you do and that's why I like reading the back and forth here. It is very entertaining and some well thought out opinions on both sides. There aspects of each movie I really like and some that I don't like. Last Jedi to more overall was a boring waste of time but it did have some great Luke Moments and that makes up for a lot of the movie for me. I do like knives out and looper but Rian Johnson is just a "Richard' when people don't like his take on something. Not everyone agrees so grow a set and move on. Lashing out at people is infantile and stupid.

 

[punisher1974]

Satisfying conclusion for the primary players? I still don?t know what Finn was trying to say!

"Rey" "Rey" and "Rey"

 

[Prime Clone]

So Trevorrow's "Duel of the Fates" then? I remember way back when that you were pretty excited about how he would craft a finale that would be a tribute to all eight prior episodes. Do you think that the leaked script would have given you what you were looking for?

Have to admit I haven't fully read it - I didn't see the point mulling over what might have been. There's every chance it would have disappointed too, but might have at least flowed better after TLJ (and not been as bloated).

Actually there was one idea where I just thought, "Nooooooo". What might that have been?

 

[Khev]

"Rey" "Rey" and "Rey"

Yep he wanted to tell her that he was planning on screaming her name three more times but never got the chance, lol.

I know you do and that's why I like reading the back and forth here. It is very entertaining and some well thought out opinions on both sides. There aspects of each movie I really like and some that I don't like. Last Jedi to more overall was a boring waste of time but it did have some great Luke Moments and that makes up for a lot of the movie for me. I do like knives out and looper but Rian Johnson is just a "Richard' when people don't like his take on something. Not everyone agrees so grow a set and move on. Lashing out at people is infantile and stupid.

So true but based on your recommendation it sounds like I need to give Knives Out a shot.

 

[punisher1974]

Yep he wanted to tell her that he was planning on screaming her name three more times but never got the chance, lol.



So true but based on your recommendation it sounds like I need to give Knives Out a shot.

Knives out is entertaining if you like who done it mystery movies. Craig's accent takes a bit of getting used to but I enjoyed the movie. Great cast and cinematography.

 

[TheDucky]

I cant take you seriously when you attack the acting in the ST and defend it in the PT

Can you give me a couple examples of bad acting that isn't from Little Anakin or AOTC Anakin?

I seriously don't have a problem with at least 75% of the acting in the PT. Probably the same for the ST, but I'd need to rewatch it again...

I haven't really defended the PT acting, I'm just saying it isn't awful and at the least average and mostly doesn't take anything away. I think the guys that did a really great job are Neeson, Lee, McDiarmid, McGregor, voice acting was pretty great throughout...

And yet none of that was as bad as Padme dying of a broken heart...

But yeah.. Kiss was stupid.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-08/heartbreak-syndrome-and-takotsubo-are-real-for-heart-disease/9523662

It is a real medical condition. I seriously don't understand the hate towards that.

Where does it say Leia was as Powerful as Rey??

Nowhere, but the fact she couldn't even try to move a few at a time to create a hole is a joke. And if she couldn't even do the bare minimum of lifting rocks, she had no business even training super powered Rey who knew everything.

Even when I was full on Hatred mode of the ST... I always hated this argument.. Sometimes overthinking a space fantasy can ruin the fun of something cool.

Rian was the one overthinking when adding that. You have to operate withing the confines of the established universe. The ST rarely does.

He was not a Palps

It's Darth Vader, come on

Do you not listen to any of the dioluge and bad acting in the PT.. That scene you just showed is full of it.. Sam Jackson was at his worst in those films..

Which line? Not yet was kind of bad, otherwise it was all fine to great.

Rey was filled with all the Jedi by the way... Obviously the most powerful being ever at that very moment.. Hell even Mace was there.

God that is dumb. Why again didn't they help Luke then?

What about C-3PO with his "all my friends" BS line.

Dude... I am convinced that "Love has Blinded you" And made you Def

Why do you use me liking the PT as a defense of the ST? Like, both movies can have bad lines.

Hmmmm more books.

A book revealed Plagueis.

Maz and the saber... ****ing stupid.. 100% agree... Knights of Ren... Do you really need to know... Really.. come on.. Have some fun with your imagination.. Who was that Bad Ass Boba Fett that talked tuff to Vader.. Half of everyones love for him was because he was cool and mysterious.

You say to have fun with my imagination, but that's the exact thinking on why people hate the PT...

Defending Jar Jar?

I even like him (because of TCW) .. But dude..

I'm serious. His motion in the senate had more of an impact than any of those characters. He was gullible enough to do it and give Palpatine more power.

RJ Sucks

Yup. At least we hate TLJ together

Ducky I think I am going to go back and say it again... I assume you were a young kid when the PT came out.. And that's OK..... I am happy you love the films.. Nothing wrong with that at all.

The ST have its problems for sure.. And I will only speak for myself but TROS worked for me and helped me to accept things in the first tow films.. Hell it even helped me to appreciate the PT a bit more and accept as Canon as I was on my way to just ignoring the PT and ST as nothing but a bad dream and go back to my had Canon.

TROS was able to do that for me and I think for Khev..

But just like we cant convince you that the ST is good or at least TROS ( I wont argue with you about the other two) you cant convince me that the PT is not full of awful acting, wooden dialogue, Lazy directing, and goofy ideas.

But that's cool because even with all that bad... I can still find some enjoyment out of them because... Well STAR WARS

Fair enough.

Your love for the PT appears to have blinded you to the point where you'll seemingly pick and choose any criteria that props up the PT and diminishes the ST.

You are doing that with the ST though.... literally picking and choosing anything that aligns with your narrative and calling BS on everything else. You are doing it right now using me liking the PT as a defense of the ST What happened to judging a film on it's own merits?

Heck you yourself already said that you hold the PT higher than the *OT* so of course we won't ever see eye to eye with regard to PT vs. ST.

When? If I did, that was a joke.

I gave my rankings and the OT scored the same personally and higher critically than the PT.

I could dismantle your posts line by line but why, so I could bash the PT for the 500th time?

These are films that were so bad they had Ahmed Best contemplating suicide, turned Jake Lloyd to a life of crime and caused the creator of his own IP to just up and sell the whole thing with the hopes that someone could restore the brand to something close to its former glory so for me to pick them apart at this point in time, especially in a discussion with someone who loves them like you do would just feel mean.

Holy ****, come on man. That's messed up to say that. It was the toxic fans harassing them non-stop. The fact you want to blame the film and not people's actions makes me think you were one of them.

As far as Lucas, that is wrong.

"I felt that I really wanted to put the company somewhere in a larger entity which could protect it. Disney is a huge corporation. They have all kinds of capabilities and facilities, so that there?s a lot of strength that is gained by this ?I?m doing this so that the films will have a longer life, and so that more fans and people can enjoy them in the future. It?s a very big universe I?ve created and there are a lot of stories that are sitting in there.?

That's why he sold it, to preserve it.

Rottentomatoes? Really? Probably *the* most disgraced review site on the internet? Oh man running to them for cover just hurts your credibility even more. Okay I guess TLJ does objectively destroy the entire PT by your own admission then if you want to go by them. See what I did there, RT is *not* your friend. Man up and let your opinions stand on their own.

And once again, you pick one thing to attack with....

I gave out a line of like 30 things that stood on their own.

 

[TheDucky]

So true but based on your recommendation it sounds like I need to give Knives Out a shot.

You know my hatred for RJ, but since I like the PT don't know how much this means,

but Knives Out was..... a..... good.... movie.....


That was tough to type.