Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[The Buffinator]

That's right. EVERY SINGLE Force user who ever existed needed training before being competent. Even Palpatine himself but Rey gets a pass from Jye just because...

I kinda thought the Force Dyad helped explain that also.. After touching Luke's Saber she awoke the FORCE in her. Her Dyad connection with Kylo allowed her to "catch up" with his skill level. The only reason she could beat him in TFA was 1. Kylo was injured and 2. She also is a Palpatine.

Yes, in TFA Kylo had two injuries before battling Rey - on his left side from Chewie's shot and on his right arm/shoulder from his lightsaber battle with Finn. Plus he wanted her to join him, so he held back while he thought she was contemplating his offer (when she was actually opening herself up to the Force). Hence the pregnant pause in the fight while he had her backed up at the chasm.

The other factor that people seem to forget is that she was already shown to be quite adept at fighting/defending herself with her staff, a skill which transfers somewhat and likely made a lightsaber duel seem less foreign to her.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

One persons forgiveness is another persons slaughter.

By all means focus on Rey being a mary sue in TFA go at it devour it and then use it as the sole catalyst to instantly dismiss the entire ST trilogy and with the snap of your fingers you have once again regained control no more mary sue misery to disturb your inner SW safe space.

But for others like me who ALSO have many problems with the ST Rey so called mary sue being explained as being an offspring of the freaking emperor who grows in skill due to her force dyad awakening is good enough for me to not just dismiss 7 1/2 hours worth of SW especially since the core narrative was part of Lucas intentions with the OT cast.

If you want to dismiss 7 1/2 hours of SW may I suggest you start in 99 and end in 2005 lol


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Rey was an interesting character for about the first 30 minutes in TFA and then became absolutely ridiculous.

As for the Emperor he died on screen in ROTJ. He was a desperate 11th hour addition to the trilogy when they realized they desperately needed a band aid to fix/justify all the backlash to all the ridiculous storytelling and they also needed the Emperor for cheap nostalgia to get simpleton butts in the seats. It's beyond me how some lifelong fans of the OT can be duped like this. It's the worst kind of agenda motivated revisionist history, retconning things here there and everywhere.

 

[The Buffinator]

Rey was an interesting character for about the first 30 minutes in TFA and then became absolutely ridiculous.

As for the Emperor he died on screen in ROTJ. He was a desperate 11th hour addition to the trilogy when they realized they desperately needed a band aid to fix/justify all the backlash to all the ridiculous storytelling and they also needed the Emperor for cheap nostalgia to get simpleton butts in the seats. It's beyond me how some lifelong fans of the OT can be duped like this. It's the worst kind of agenda motivated revisionist history, retconning things here there and everywhere.

I would have to agree that Palpatine's addition was not what they envisioned at the start of the trilogy, but IMO it was not only RJ's narrative decisions in TLJ (especially killing off Snoke) but also Carrie Fisher's death that forced them to try to pull a rabbit out of their collective hat (you may think they pulled it out of a different place, but whatever ). Given that Leia was supposedly going to be a principal player in TROS, what they were able to accomplish with only a few outtakes was IMO truly remarkable.

 

[jye4ever]

I would have to agree that Palpatine's addition was not what they envisioned at the start of the trilogy, but IMO it was not only RJ's narrative decisions in TLJ (especially killing off Snoke) but also Carrie Fisher's death that forced them to try to pull a rabbit out of their collective hat (you may think they pulled it out of a different place, but whatever ). Given that Leia was supposedly going to be a principal player in TROS, what they were able to accomplish with only a few outtakes was IMO truly remarkable.

Divorce and in fighting messed up the real ST so i?ll take the runner up prize lol

Honestly I don?t know what bigger role they were going to have Leia perform it certainly wasn?t going to be her swinging any lightsabers UNLESS they went full blown de-aging of her and Luke having some form of confrontation with the emperor.

The future was always in motion....

https://youtu.be/4UGV7WVB-bA

Oh well no crying over spilt midichlorians just enjoy the view is my motto...

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[Khev]

The Gladiator fight with all the Jedi vs the robots is just bad. The way all the Jedi are swinging their sabers just looks so much like actors who are having trouble with their imaginations filling in the blanks on the green screen stage.

And what's crazy is that you're actually giving them too much credit because the arena Jedi were NOT actors, not stuntmen, or even accomplished fencers/swordsmen. Then were nothing but ILM employees that George let be in his movie. That's why they all look terrible. Every single child who appeared in the PT (except Jake Lloyd and Kitster) were also the children of ILM employees which is why they are so terrible as well. The kids watching Anakin build his pod racer, being trained by Yoda, and then of course Lucas' own children in other scenes.

I get being gracious and letting friends and family be in the movie but they should have all been static window dressing in group shots, patrons in a bar or marketplace or what have you and not playing the most skilled warriors in the galaxy.

 

[a-dev]

If you want to dismiss 7 1/2 hours of SW may I suggest you start in 99 and end in 2005 lol

Hmmm. To dismiss the PT or the ST...

 

[JAWS]

And what's crazy is that you're actually giving them too much credit because the arena Jedi were NOT actors, not stuntmen, or even accomplished fencers/swordsmen. Then were nothing but ILM employees that George let be in his movie. That's why they all look terrible. Every single child who appeared in the PT (except Jake Lloyd and Kitster) were also the children of ILM employees which is why they are so terrible as well. The kids watching Anakin build his pod racer, being trained by Yoda, and then of course Lucas' own children in other scenes.

I get being gracious and letting friends and family be in the movie but they should have all been static window dressing in group shots, patrons in a bar or marketplace or what have you and not playing the most skilled warriors in the galaxy.

Well that explains a lot.. They are all so bad.. Some of the Saber ignitions at the beginning of the scene is some of the most, if not the most, cringe worthy stuff in the entire PT.

Was Sam Jackson part of someone's family?? Some of his force deflections were very "armature"

It's a pretty important moment in the film when all the Jedi show up to fight.. I wish George wasn't on Peyote while filming the PT

 

[Khev]

Well that explains a lot.. They are all so bad..

Yep.

Was Sam Jackson part of someone's family?? Some of his force deflections were very "armature"

Kind of, lol. And I say that because George didn't write Mace Windu for someone like Sam Jackson but Jackson begged him to be in the trilogy (and to get his own lightsaber color) and so George famously agreed. So even with all the poor decisions George made in other areas he couldn't even stick to his guns and simply pick the best people for the various jobs or roles. So that led to us having the head of the entire Jedi Order played by a guy who appears anything but wise and in control and instead constantly looks like he wants to kill every mother****er that crosses his path.

It's like George was literally backwards in every single decision he made. He said no to all the professionals that wanted the movies to be awesome and then said yes to every stupid wish made by his personal friends and family members.

 

[JAWS]

I always put her Mary-Sue-ness down to her growing up as a scavenger and needing hand-to-hand combat skills to survive. That plus awakening Force powers = badass.

Also, now knowing about the dyad, in retrospect she probably ?downloaded? some Force knowledge from Kylo whenever their minds connected.

That wont fly with the ST haters... And I don't blame them.. If not for TROS I would have fought tooth and nail over that explanation

Luckily TROS came along and made her a Dyad and a Palps... Thus making the first part of you explanation more acceptable to me now ​

I always put her Mary-Sue-ness down to KK's "the force is female" agenda.
Look at Maz Kanata the female version of Yoda. Not only is she force sensitive like him she's older and more physically capable too. Just like Rey has to be better than any male Jedi who came before her.

I would agree with that.. Thank goodness JJ came in and erased all that by making her a Dyad and a Palps.

Rey was an interesting character for about the first 30 minutes in TFA and then became absolutely ridiculous.

As for the Emperor he died on screen in ROTJ. He was a desperate 11th hour addition to the trilogy when they realized they desperately needed a band aid to fix/justify all the backlash to all the ridiculous storytelling and they also needed the Emperor for cheap nostalgia to get simpleton butts in the seats. It's beyond me how some lifelong fans of the OT can be duped like this. It's the worst kind of agenda motivated revisionist history, retconning things here there and everywhere.

And there lies the difference between us..

I agree it was a desperate 11th hour addition.

But me personally... I don't care.. It worked. It saved the other two films. I don't care if it was planned or not because the end product worked for me.


Nobody planned on the Shark in JAWS not to work for the whole film.. So in the 11th hour Steven changed the way he would present the shark by using yellow barrels and keeping him off screen... It made the movie the film so much more effective and perfect.

Now I am not comparing TROS to JAWS... That would be silly My point being is that it really does not matter if it was a desperate move or not.

It wasn't planned but it worked.


For some of us.





But I get it.. If you don't like that aspect of the film then there is nothing to take from the ST. A bad ending for you is not going to improve your enjoyment.

I am so happy I am not in that camp.

 

[Khev]

I hate Indiana Jones because they never planned for him to be played by Harrison Ford and only changed it when Tom Selleck backed out.

Hugh Jackman's Wolverine also sucks because Dougray Scott was cast to play him but had to back out due to breaking his collarbone while filming a motorcycle stunt in M:I-2.

Unplanned awesomeness = Fail.

 

[The Buffinator]

Oh well no crying over spilt midichlorians just enjoy the view is my motto...

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Whoa, those are ample thighs! Was she sired by a minotaur?

 

[Victοr]

My opinion is that BOTH the PT AND the ST suck. Now this is some prime Star Wars Kino:

Spoiler

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

That wont fly with the ST haters... And I don't blame them.. If not for TROS I would have fought tooth and nail over that explanation

Luckily TROS came along and made her a Dyad and a Palps... Thus making the first part of you explanation more acceptable to me now ​

I would agree with that.. Thank goodness JJ came in and erased all that by making her a Dyad and a Palps.



And there lies the difference between us..

I agree it was a desperate 11th hour addition.

But me personally... I don't care.. It worked. It saved the other two films. I don't care if it was planned or not because the end product worked for me.


Nobody planned on the Shark in JAWS not to work for the whole film.. So in the 11th hour Steven changed the way he would present the shark by using yellow barrels and keeping him off screen... It made the movie the film so much more effective and perfect.

Now I am not comparing TROS to JAWS... That would be silly My point being is that it really does not matter if it was a desperate move or not.

It wasn't planned but it worked.


For some of us.





But I get it.. If you don't like that aspect of the film then there is nothing to take from the ST. A bad ending for you is not going to improve your enjoyment.

I am so happy I am not in that camp.

What about the fact that bringing back the screen confirmed dead guy undoes all the accomplishments of the heroes in the OT. What about the way they made the lives of the OT heroes turn out pathetic and the way they screwed with the force, hyper space, etc. There is much more to complain about but I'll stop there for now. All so Kathleen Kennedy's idealized version of her brunette self that never actually was can replace Luke as the hero of the "Skywalkers"

I put that laughing emoji in there, but it's not actually funny. Or "awesome" as Khev puts it. It's just bad and insulting.

 

[jye4ever]

What about the fact that bringing back the screen confirmed dead guy undoes all the accomplishments of the heroes in the OT. What about the way they made the lives of the OT heroes turn out pathetic and the way they screwed with the force, hyper space, etc. There is much more to complain about but I'll stop there for now. All so Kathleen Kennedy's idealized version of her brunette self that never actually was can replace Luke as the hero of the "Skywalkers"

I put that laughing emoji in there, but it's not actually funny. Or "awesome" as Khev puts it. It's just bad and insulting.

If your main complaint is the KK agenda then you are complaining to 2 people (Khev and JAWS) who 100% agree with you about her agenda YET what they AND I saw in TROS was KK agenda completely removed.

Like holy crap Khev and JAWS just spent dozens upon dozens of pages explaining in DETAIL how KK agenda was removed by Iger and JJ in TROS hence why they LOVE the movie YET here you are carrying on and on and on about the KK agenda ruining TROS!

Did you watch a different movie lol

There is a DAMN GOOD reason why the MSM hates TROS lol


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[Khev]

What about the fact that bringing back the screen confirmed dead guy undoes all the accomplishments of the heroes in the OT.

I will always find this to be the single most bizarre complaint of the ST haters since it ironically demands that the entire Saga should have ended like a Walt Disney cartoon such as Beauty and the Beast with people singing, ballroom dancing, and simply living happily ever after forevermore post-ROTJ. Nevermind that they originally intended the conflict to continue past Episode VI, or that George had his own plans for Luke passing the torch to a new generation of heroes, or hundreds of EU novels and comics where the OT heroes continued to battle remnants of the Empire, or even that it was George's idea that Luke end up exile. Honoring any versions of those stories is "insulting."

 

[jye4ever]

I will always find this to be the single most bizarre complaint of the ST haters since it ironically demands that the entire Saga should have ended like a Walt Disney cartoon such as Beauty and the Beast with people singing, ballroom dancing, and simply living happily ever after forevermore post-ROTJ. Nevermind that they originally intended the conflict to continue past Episode VI, or that George had his own plans for Luke passing the torch to a new generation of heroes, or hundreds of EU novels and comics where the OT heroes continued to battle remnants of the Empire, or even that it was George's idea that Luke end up exile. Honoring any versions of those stories is "insulting."

You know HOW INSULTING it would have been had they NOT brought the emperor back!

What am I missing with these so called OT fans lol

Kylo as the main villain in the galaxy...

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[Khev]

If your main complaint is the KK agenda then you are complaining to 2 people (Khev and JAWS) who 100% agree with you about her agenda YET what they AND I saw in TROS was KK agenda completely removed.

Like holy crap Khev and JAWS just spent dozens upon dozens of pages explaining in DETAIL how KK agenda was removed by Iger and JJ in TROS hence why they LOVE the movie YET here you are carrying on and on and on about the KK agenda ruining TROS!

Did you watch a different movie lol

There is a DAMN GOOD reason why the MSM hates TROS lol

Yep.

*How* many times would Rey have been dead in TROS if not rescued by a man, saved from a man, encouraged by men, or even brought back to life by a man? You'd have to be a fool to watch TROS and come away with the message that you can succeed if you're female or superior if you're female. No Rey is a great hero in TROS because she simply faces her fears and the danger head on even if she alone isn't strong enough to overcome them.

 

[jye4ever]

Yep.

*How* many times would Rey have been dead in TROS if not rescued by a man, saved from a man, encouraged by men, or even brought back to life by a man? You'd have to be a fool to watch TROS and come away with the message that you can succeed if you're female or superior if you're female. No Rey is a great hero in TROS because she simply faces her fears and the danger head on even if she alone isn't strong enough to overcome them.

Luke literally stopped her from ENDING THE JEDI ORDER while HOPING that Kylo turned good because she didn?t witness his full turn with Han!

I?m surprised she didn?t go get broom boy to throw into the burning tie fighter lol


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[Khev]

You know HOW INSULTING it would have been had they NOT brought the emperor back!

What am I missing with these so called OT fans lol

Kylo as the main villain in the galaxy...

Exactly! That's why *I* was starting to let go of the ST, because I realized that if all it would take is literally *any other villain* (Snoke, Kylo, etc.) to instantly bring the galaxy back down to its knees and throw the main OT characters into despair then IMO that *would* have greatly invalidated who they were as heroes. Wow, you guys learned nothing from the last conflict did you, lol. But by making it Palpatine it instantly explains how he could have specifically targeted their known weaknesses to bring them down only to make it more epic when they rose again to defeat him once and for all.

 

[jye4ever]

Exactly! That's why *I* was starting to let go of the ST, because I realized that if all it would take is literally *any other villain* (Snoke, Kylo, etc.) to instantly bring the galaxy back down to its knees and throw the main OT characters into despair then IMO that *would* have greatly invalidated who they were as heroes. Wow, you guys learned nothing from the last conflict did you, lol. But by making it Palpatine it instantly explains how he could have specifically targeted their known weaknesses to bring them down only to make it more epic when they rose again to defeat him once and for all.

Jesus dude if these haters can?t get onboard after what you just so eloquently described there then there is no changing their mind.

Lets get out of here lol


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