Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[jye4ever]

The single craziest SW theory I've ever heard was that after TROS Rey somehow traveled back in time when she visited the Lars homestead. And that after changing her last name to Skywalker she changed her first name to Shmi only to discover that Ben "transferring life" into her is what conceived Anakin.

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[punisher1974]

The single craziest SW theory I've ever heard was that after TROS Rey somehow traveled back in time when she visited the Lars homestead. And that after changing her last name to Skywalker she changed her first name to Shmi only to discover that Ben "transferring life" into her is what conceived Anakin.

Well if that's the case then Finn is in trouble after getting life from Poe.

 

[Khev]

Where and when the **** did Rey learn giant serpent anatomy!?

Same place that Luke learned Gamorrean Guard anatomy. For your theory to work Luke would have to perfectly visualize the inside of the guards' throats so as to know exactly what to use the telekinesis on, how far to move the inside of their throats, etc. So he either did that (which could also theoretically work in reverse) or he just told the Force to do something too complicated for him to medically understand (which could also work in reverse.) More great points ajp!

 

[Khev]

Can you imagine if they really did close that loop with the final scene and answered the greatest mystery of the entire Saga, lol.

Well if that's the case then Finn is in trouble after getting life from Poe.

 

[jye4ever]

Are you two seriously trying to suggest that Rey Force healing the giant snake was done by telekinetic connecting of tendons, tissue, and arteries?

Where and when the **** did Rey learn giant serpent anatomy!? You've gotta be kidding me, right?

Sorry fellas, applying the squeeze to someone's throat is a simple tactile act that can be naturally adapted to the concept of telekinesis. Healing mortal wounds is a medical process involving fusing biological matter with precision and knowledge.

Keep trying, though. I'm enjoying your efforts.

Would you prefer...

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[ajp4mgs]

Same place that Luke learned Gamorrean Guard anatomy. For your theory to work Luke would have to perfectly visualize the inside of the guards' throats so as to know exactly what to use the telekinesis on, how far to move the inside of their throats, etc. So he either did that (which could also theoretically work in reverse) or he just told the Force to do something too complicated for him to medically understand (which could also work in reverse.) More great points ajp!

I don't need to have any specific knowledge of anatomy to know that extreme pressure on a throat will constrict someone's breathing. If I can choke someone with my hand, then a Jedi can choke someone with telekinesis. No medical school required at all.

In fact, there were times throughout the Lucas saga where you could actually see objects being squeezed and contracted via the Force. Same concept as "Force choking."

 

[jye4ever]

Well if that's the case then Finn is in trouble after getting life from Poe.

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[Khev]

I don't need to have any specific knowledge of anatomy to know that extreme pressure on a throat will constrict someone's breathing. If I can choke someone with my hand, then a Jedi can choke someone with telekinesis. No medical school required at all.

In fact, there were times throughout the Lucas saga where you could actually see objects being squeezed and contracted via the Force. Same concept as "Force choking."

It's still internal though.

Vader doesn't use the Force to simply push on the outside of their neck, he manipulates their throats from the inside (yikes that sounded bad, lol.)

 

[ajp4mgs]

It's still internal though.

Vader doesn't use the Force to simply push on the outside of their neck, he manipulates their throats from the inside (yikes that sounded bad, lol.)

Too convoluted for me. I'm not saying you're wrong about what Force choke involves (who the **** knows?), but I just always interpreted it as applying pressure using a telekinetic "hand." Again, the same way that some metal cylindrical objects were shown to squeeze and contract when "grabbed hard" by the Force.

 

[Khev]

Too convoluted for me. I'm not saying you're wrong about what Force choke involves (who the **** knows?), but I just always interpreted it as applying pressure using a telekinetic "hand." Again, the same way that some metal cylindrical objects were shown to squeeze and contract when "grabbed hard" by the Force.

It only becomes convoluted when you try to make Force Healing convoluted. Because once you start to say that using the Force to heal requires perfect knowledge of the subject's anatomy then that adds a layer of convolution previously unheard of in the Saga. Do you really think that Jedi have a perfect understanding of any given alien's cerebral cortex when they alter their brains to make them susceptible to suggestion? No way. They wave their hand and through the magic of the Force their victim just repeats and believes whatever they say.

Same with Force Healing and Force Choking. Raise hand, choke, done. Raise hand, heal, done.

We learned way back in 1977 that the Force "obeys your commands." It doesn't require you to have all this random knowledge of all the physics and biology of the universe to accomplish what you want. It's less about understanding the specifics of what you're trying to accomplish and more about learning how to talk to the Force in a specific way to have it *do* what you want. So if you're choking someone the victim's neck isn't obeying your commands it's the Force obeying your command to choke them. That's according to Ben's first teachings on the Falcon anyway. So that greatly simplifies things and translates pretty seamlessly to healing.

Hey I know we greatly disagree on the quality of the various films but this has actually been a pretty fun (regardless of how ridiculously nerdy, lol) tangent.

 

[jye4ever]

It only becomes convoluted when you try to make Force Healing convoluted. Because once you start to say that using the Force to heal requires perfect knowledge of the subject's anatomy then that adds a layer of convolution previously unheard of in the Saga. Do you really think that Jedi have a perfect understanding of any given alien's cerebral cortex when they alter their brains to make them susceptible to suggestion? No way. They wave their hand and through the magic of the Force their victim just repeats and believes whatever they say.

Same with Force Healing and Force Choking. Raise hand, choke, done. Raise hand, heal, done.

We learned way back in 1977 that the Force "obeys your commands." It doesn't require you to have all this random knowledge of all the physics and biology of the universe to accomplish what you want. It's less about understanding the specifics of what you're trying to accomplish and more about learning how to talk to the Force in a specific way to have it *do* what you want. So if you're choking someone the victim's neck isn't obeying your commands it's the Force obeying your command to choke them. That's according to Ben's first teachings on the Falcon anyway. So that greatly simplifies things and translates pretty seamlessly to healing.

Hey I know we greatly disagree on the quality of the various films but this has actually been a pretty fun (regardless of how ridiculously nerdy, lol) tangent.

I?m starting to think ajp is a just a Trekkie trying to get revenge lol

Keep that science minutiae crap out of SW.

Force works in mysterious ways, done!


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[jye4ever]

Khev SHFA Praetorian guard is $35 on Amazon that is cheap hurry lol

But seriously that is cheap.


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[TheDucky]

Yes there was definitely an element of that. However their "fix" not only worked in its own right but also redeemed TLJ in the process so their roadmap being blown up actually turned into a double win.



This just shows that when it comes to SW outside of the OT you and I really don't have much (if any) common ground. So if it seems like I'm being dismissive of your long posts that is why. Your love for the PT appears to have blinded you to the point where you'll seemingly pick and choose any criteria that props up the PT and diminishes the ST. Heck you yourself already said that you hold the PT higher than the *OT* so of course we won't ever see eye to eye with regard to PT vs. ST.

I could dismantle your posts line by line but why, so I could bash the PT for the 500th time? Not much sport in that. These are films that were so bad they had Ahmed Best contemplating suicide, turned Jake Lloyd to a life of crime and caused the creator of his own IP to just up and sell the whole thing with the hopes that someone could restore the brand to something close to its former glory so for me to pick them apart at this point in time, especially in a discussion with someone who loves them like you do would just feel mean.

The ST has a goofy line here and there (mostly in TLJ) but the dialogue isn't *pervasively* bad like the PT, on the whole it's actually quite good and that does include TLJ as well.



Rottentomatoes? Really? Probably *the* most disgraced review site on the internet? Oh man running to them for cover just hurts your credibility even more. Okay I guess TLJ does objectively destroy the entire PT by your own admission then if you want to go by them. See what I did there, RT is *not* your friend. Man up and let your opinions stand on their own.

Like JAWS said that's cool if you love the PT, clearly you experienced them at an age and mindset where they could really be something special to you. But comparing them to the ST just isn't a debate that I feel is worth putting my energy into.

.....

Because he completely made it up. I never said anything of the kind.

Oh, but you did.

 

[TheDucky]

You been bashing on Daisy Ridley's looks...

Never did that, said her acting/facial expressions in the ST makes her look like a special needs child. When she doesn't act like that, she looks fine.

You probably have a bigger bone to pick with the comments saying she looks like a man and the likes, either in this thread or another.

 

[ajp4mgs]

It only becomes convoluted when you try to make Force Healing convoluted. Because once you start to say that using the Force to heal requires perfect knowledge of the subject's anatomy then that adds a layer of convolution previously unheard of in the Saga. Do you really think that Jedi have a perfect understanding of any given alien's cerebral cortex when they alter their brains to make them susceptible to suggestion? No way. They wave their hand and through the magic of the Force their victim just repeats and believes whatever they say.

Same with Force Healing and Force Choking. Raise hand, choke, done. Raise hand, heal, done.

We learned way back in 1977 that the Force "obeys your commands." It doesn't require you to have all this random knowledge of all the physics and biology of the universe to accomplish what you want. It's less about understanding the specifics of what you're trying to accomplish and more about learning how to talk to the Force in a specific way to have it *do* what you want. So if you're choking someone the victim's neck isn't obeying your commands it's the Force obeying your command to choke them. That's according to Ben's first teachings on the Falcon anyway. So that greatly simplifies things and translates pretty seamlessly to healing.

I agree that the concept of Force healing doesn't need to be convoluted. It's fine to just accept the "magic" of it (if you're okay with healing itself being a Jedi power). I'm just saying there's no logistical equivalence in my mind with something like Force choking.

Some Force powers are just intuitively easy to understand, and could therefore be seen as easier to use intuitively or even instinctively. Lifting stuff works the same way for me conceptually with telekinesis/magic as it does with actual physics: everything being made up of energy means that if you apply energy to something, you can manipulate it. Just like choking a throat with an actual hand versus choking a throat with a telekinetic "hand:" you either use physical energy, or use an abstract source of energy, to put the squeeze on.

Your use of Jedi mind trick as being analogous to Force healing is certainly fair. They are both concepts that are more intricate than merely manipulating matter (lifting, pushing, pulling, etc.). But if both are to exist in the SW universe, I'd expect that both would need to be learned. That's because the OT suggested that Luke was the only Jedi left in the galaxy. That's an important point.

Without Luke, there were no other "naturals" (like Rey) running around who could simply learn powerful Force skills through osmosis or family lineage. Luke and Leia were both descendants of an extremely powerful Force user (more powerful than Yoda, as the PT suggests), yet did not master the more intricate skills until they were trained to use them. Speaking telepathically to the other? Yes. Simple telekinesis (with obvious effort) without training? Yes. But the higher-level skills? No. It's just a step too far for me.

And I have a hard time accepting healing as a learned skill, no matter what, because there's no way (in my mind) that it wouldn't have been passed down and been learned by Obi-Wan, Anakin, and others. Plus, it crosses a certain line for me in terms of keeping the stakes in these movies at least *somewhat* grounded.

Hey I know we greatly disagree on the quality of the various films but this has actually been a pretty fun (regardless of how ridiculously nerdy, lol) tangent.

Dude, ridiculously nerdy is all I can bring to the table. I'm glad this wasn't annoying for you; I enjoy it as well.

I?m starting to think ajp is a just Trekkie trying to get revenge lol

Keep that science crap out of SW.


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Even "magic" and fantasy need to follow certain rules. Can't just keep making **** up for the sake of plot convenience (like even GL did with the "Force sprint" in TPM). The fantasy needs to at least remain consistent in order to be engaging. I guess how consistent all this stuff is is where we fans disagree. Nothing wrong with that, IMO.

 

[TheDucky]

Honestly, what is wrong with you two? Where have I personally insulted either of you? Yet you enjoy calling me deranged over and over again?

More STDS I guess

No, it's not. Check the thread, quoted and bolded.

So unhinged that he's apparently just blindly typing away the same junk no matter what's been proven as false many times over.

Still using *only* the RT scores that support his narrative while ignoring the ones that don't? Really?

Oh well, we both extended the olive branch in trying to enjoy the PT and relate to someone who loves those films but I guess it's just "all STDS all the time" for some people, lol.

At least he's finally acknowledging that *all* the films after ANH require reimagining and help from each person's individual head canon.

You either ignore or fail to respond and then act as if one comment of mine is some big gotcha moment.

I forgot about the superiority complex, all my replies are wrong and everything you say is right.

Still honing in one comment while ignoring all the others.

yeah I really watched the PT this last time remembering that it has its fans and what they like about it.. Tried to be cool about the PT and post my positive thoughts as well as my issues.. But I always try and make sure that my complaints are not foaming at the mouth PTDS type complaints

Key word: try.

Did you expect me to say nice things about the ST because you said nice thing about the PT?

I already said I liked TFA before TLJ. Then TLJ made me hate it because I can't like a movie that is going down a path that I can't follow.

I think his derangement goes both ways though. Not only can he not fathom why anyone would like the ST he also apparently can't fathom why anyone *wouldn't like* the PT, lol.

Sure I love the ST and have serious issues with the PT but come on I'm not so far gone that I'm blind to the valid criticisms against the ST or the positive aspects of the PT.

You, JAWS, and Jye have been in this thread non-stop saying how great TROS is and questioning how anyone can hate it, going as far to say in roundabout ways how others taste in Star Wars is bad, how y'all are the superior fan, how it's better than the PT... constantly re-imagining lines... completely ignoring all the legitimate complaints about the movie.

I've already said why I understand people may not like the PT, inconsistent with the OT, inconsistent acting, bad dialogue, too much CGI at times....

Can any of you accept why people hate the ST? At all?

Because anytime I've had a conversation, it's, "well I get the TLJ hate but let me tell why TROS is the best movie since ESB!" takes.

 

[Khev]

.....



Oh, but you did.

Did you really just spend four and a half hours digging up a quote that would only prove yourself wrong in black and white, lol. It literally says right there in the quote you just posted that it was the movies being terrible, not the actors, that was to blame for ruining their lives.

 

[JAWS]

Baby Yoda. OK. Dammit you guys and your initials for everything

Actually ajp if you want to open the door to the notion that Force Choking isn't a specific skill and is simply using telekinesis to cause internal injuries then I can just say that Force Healing uses telekinesis to *heal* internal injuries and seal wounds muahahaha.

And when Rey said that she was transferring life energy she meant that she was being drained to use the skill just like Force Projection and if you do too much you die just like Luke on Ahch-To and Ben on Exegol. Thanks ajp for proving that FH is perfectly valid no matter which interpretation you want to take.

This is crazy ajp himself just gave 100% legitimacy to the thing he hated the most.

In his attempt to destroy TROS he has given it great life and resiliency against any future attacks lol

Hell even JAWS will NOW HAVE TO LOVE Rey FH :

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Are you two seriously trying to suggest that Rey Force healing the giant snake was done by telekinetic connecting of tendons, tissue, and arteries?

Where and when the **** did Rey learn giant serpent anatomy!? You've gotta be kidding me, right?

Sorry fellas, applying the squeeze to someone's throat is a simple tactile act that can be naturally adapted to the concept of telekinesis. Healing mortal wounds is a medical process involving fusing biological matter with precision and knowledge.

Keep trying, though. I'm enjoying your efforts.

Same place that Luke learned Gamorrean Guard anatomy. For your theory to work Luke would have to perfectly visualize the inside of the guards' throats so as to know exactly what to use the telekinesis on, how far to move the inside of their throats, etc. So he either did that (which could also theoretically work in reverse) or he just told the Force to do something too complicated for him to medically understand (which could also work in reverse.) More great points ajp!

I don't need to have any specific knowledge of anatomy to know that extreme pressure on a throat will constrict someone's breathing. If I can choke someone with my hand, then a Jedi can choke someone with telekinesis. No medical school required at all.

In fact, there were times throughout the Lucas saga where you could actually see objects being squeezed and contracted via the Force. Same concept as "Force choking."

Im still with Ajp…

I know how to break Humpty Dumpty... I cant put him back together again

 

[TheDucky]

Did you really just spend four and a half hours digging up a quote that would only prove yourself wrong in black and white, lol. It literally says right there in the quote you just posted that it was the movies being terrible, not the actors, that was to blame for ruining their lives.

Only took 5 minutes. Find in page is a thing you know.

You are doing it again. Completely absolving the harassers and blaming a movie. By ignoring the harassers you are saying the actors did it to themselves because they were in a "bad movie."

It's almost as if you are justifying the hate they received because they were in a "bad movie."

 

[Khev]

Only took 5 minutes. Find in page is a thing you know.

You are doing it again. Completely absolving the harassers and blaming a movie. By ignoring the harassers you are saying the actors did it to themselves because they were in a "bad movie."

There you go. You finally figured it out.

It's almost as if you are justifying the hate they received because they were in a "bad movie."

Well nobody gets harrassed for being in a good movie, lol.