Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[jye4ever]

Ducky your ratio of post length vs movie watching length seems off to me lol


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[aussiebottt]

Tros has the best lightsaber duel of all time enough said. Everyone who hates the st, pt and ot zealots included, have to admit this. I love the ot but the lightsaber duels left much to be desired in terms of fight choreography.

What a load of ****.

 

[e30ernest]

I agree with this. Just dub this in... I love this version of the duel.

Imagine how it would have been like if that was the original version of the duel. It would have blown the minds of its 1977 audience. Probably terrify them too.

 

[aussiebottt]

Then by your own admission you still have no credibility with regard to any commentary on TROS. You just stated that you're literally incapable of recognizing whether it was a good movie or not. Hell apparently it could have been better than ESB but since you hated the first two you'd be too blindly "stubborn" and "entitled" to ever acknowledge it.

For whatever it's worth this isn't actually new information for me, I've been well aware of your perspective for quite some time. I'm just glad you're able to come out and say it.

Gee Khev were you trying to sound like an arrogant ********* or was just a coincidence?

 

[ironwez20]

Tros has the best lightsaber duel of all time enough said. Everyone who hates the st, pt and ot zealots included, have to admit this. I love the ot but the lightsaber duels left much to be desired in terms of fight choreography.

In new hope, obi wan and vader looked like they were barely fighting, the sabers barely clashed and when they did it didn't seem like there was any force behind it. It looked more like they were swordfighting with their cocks then lightsabers. All their attacks were slow, deliberate, and gentle. More importantly it lacked any kind of urgency or raw emotion outside of those emotions conveyed thru Luke when his master died. Hell they barely even moved the whole fight.

The Empire duel was much better than a new hope, it was more aggressive. Luke was attacking like a wild man, whinging his saber with force from side to side like a true untrained derranged barbarian. Vader toyed with him for most of the fight using simple countering techniques and when needed provided equally powerful swings. The problem with this duel is it looked like 2 untrained swordsmen trying to kill each other once they both truely engaged, it was pure brute force, no real fluidity or elegance in their attacks- nothing that would impress you or say damn that dude knows how to handle a saber. Ive actually seen more sophisticated duels with fake sabers on youtube. Granted you could feel lukes emotion as he contronts vader so it had more emotional weight then the new hope duel, but it still lacked the sense of urgency, which is most likely due to vader not fully committing to the fight. They did no look like skilled, elegant fighters instead they relied on what looked like raw wild emotion.

Return of the jedi duel was pretty much the same as empire, except luke spent more time hiding which led to a shorter duel. Once vader triggers him he goes compeltely ape****, using the same barbaric wild forceful attack style he used previously, just with a bit more hate fueling his wild attacks..Vaders head wasnt fully in the game and he reaponds with an even weaker attempt to defend himself, almost reminded me of untrained finn fighting kylo in tfa. Both the empire and rotj duals lacked the elegance and skill with a saber you would expect from a trained lightsaber wielder, especially one as skilled as Vader at this point.

While the OT had two little fight choreography the PT went way overboard. The phantom menace duel was the best one of the pt, it had the same level of emotion and intensity as the Best OT fights but much better fight choreography. The fighters (all three of them) actually looked like experts in their craft. They fought with power when needed, but also with a refined elegance you?d expect from one who has honed their skills and mastered a fighting technique.

Attack of the clones duels weren't vey memorable at all, most of the jedi fights in the arena ended so fast barely anything happened long enough to resonate, it was a swing here or blaster to the chest there. The anakin dooku fight was terrible, for some dumb reason they decided to shoot the whole duel with closeup face shots, so all we got was a blue and red light show on the actors faces then anakin falling to the ground with his hand apparently chopped off. The dooku yoda saber fight could have been good but we will never know cause it lasted like 2 seconds.

Revenge of the dancing sith. George compeletely lost it with these fights, they may be cool to watch the first time sround but upon second vewing youll notice the flaws and how utterly unbelievable thenfighting (dancing) is. Anakin and dooku part 2 started off ok, you could feel the emotional weight behind thier clashes, anakin used some very advanced saber techniques, but it ended too fast. I would argue this is probably the best duel in rots (followed by yoda and palptine and mace vs palpatine.. The obi vs grevious duel was too many close ups again so you cant really see the action. Obi swings a few times then it immediately cuts to close up of grevious hand being magically chopped off, this hapoens what 3 more time and then grevious runs from the fight. The duel between anakin and obi wan- is where george really lost his mind. There is alot of wonderful lightsaber techniques on display but it looked like they were more concerned with pulling off these amazing moves then actually trying to kill each other. Twirling blades around behind thier backs, thier heads while the other is doing the same ****ing thing- leaving each other completely open and vulnerable to an easy stab right in the gut (that never happens and there were many opportunities in that 25 min dance off). There was no real sense of urgency or emotion until the very end when the fighting stopped for like 2 seconds before obi chops his legs off. The majority of that fight was a lightsaber dance off. Mace vs palpatine started off bad when palps easily killed the other jedi in a blink of an eye, but the fight itself reminded me of the OT fights, except with a bit more urgency as both wanted to kill each others. They mainly relied on raw powerful swings to take down thier foe. Palptaine mixed in a few of his trademark stab moves. You could feel the urgency and emotion in this fight. Yoda vs palpatine is a tuff one. Its a guilty pleasure for me, Ii know its dumb as hell seeing yoda twirling around like that and palpatine cackling and hissing and doing is dumb little stabs but its also good mindless fun, i cannot objectively rate this fight

Sequel trilogy. Tfa had a very ot reminiscent saber fight between ray and kylo. Kylo used a few cool saber techniques when he made quick work of finn. The rey vs kylo fight part was almost exactly like the luke vs vader fights. You could feel the intensity and power and emotion in her wild swings and stabs while kylo was toying with her (much like vader did luke). When she let the force in she finally busted out some pretty cool saber moves. Didnt take much or last long once that happened

Tlj- there is no lightsaber duel in this movie, the only of the 9 skywalker films not to feature one-fail

Rise of skywalker- the duel on the wreckage is by far the most intense and emotionally raw fight in the whole saga.you could tell they both wanted to kill each other, neither was holding back, the camera angle was perfect (no crazy close ups) allowed the viewer to take it in, in all its glory. This fight had it all; wild powerful swings, spectacular counters and a level of saber/swordsmanship mastery not seen any other star wars film. There was no lightsaber dancing, every attack had the intent to maim and or kill. It was fast paced, it was brutal its was perfectly choreographed. It also lasted the perfect amount of time, it wasn't too short like some of the other better duals and it wasnt a ****ing 24 minute epic dancing with the ?lightsaber? stars competition like obi & anakin

Nah. Tros lightsaber battles aren?t a bunch of crazy mindless swinging . Except for kylo

 

[Khev]

MHas anyone in this thread relented more than one point or drastically swayed someone to the other side or even a neutral side?

It's not about changing anyone's opinion about a movie from positive to negative or vice versa since that can't really be done just by discussing it. You either like something or you don't. But dissecting the specifics of what worked and what didn't can be fun, especially if someone's take helps you put a finger on what you didn't like better or helps you to appreciate something even more.

Every thing in TROS is influenced by the past 2 movies, everything. And thus it is impacted by those events and impacts the quality of the movie.

Yes I'm well aware of what you are claiming. I just happen to think it's nonsense. A good episode is a good episode, regardless of what came before. X-Men 3 and X-Men Origins were garbage then DOFP was great. Age of Apocalypse was absolutely hot garbage and then Logan was awesome. "Nope Logan followed AoA so I know it's crap." Ridiculous. We went from Vader the idiot in ROTS to Vader the badass in RO. TCW was lame for six and a half seasons and now all of a sudden with two episodes it's sweet. That's how it can always go, you never know.

 

[Khev]

*reads Khev's response to same paragraph I had responded to*

''Der is one more credibility chip'' *points to own head* ''.....and it must be destroyed also....''

Well...I don't think you've ever claimed that the quality of a movie is a *foregone conclusion* based on what came before, *especially* if there's a change of director from film to film. That's why hope springs eternal for every new horrible Terminator flick, lol. And I know that you had disallowed the ST to be in your personal canon prior to TROS but I'm guessing that you still went in hoping and open for it to still be good and/or entertaining in its own right and then *actually watched the movie itself* before coming to your final conclusions.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

TCW was lame for six and a half seasons and now all of a sudden with two episodes it's sweet. That's how it can always go, you never know.

You really think TCW is bad? It's a cartoon intended for children with some pretty decent SW content. Of course some episodes are much stronger than others. Anyway it's just a fun kids show, and a much better representation of the Star Wars universe than the ST.

 

[JAWS]

See I don?t understand this at all. TROS didn?t fix anything it just made it worse . I could see from a mile away the lazy thrown together story and how they didn?t have a plan. I don?t understand how you weren?t invested at first but this movie just brings it together. It baffles me. Nothing feels earned or explained.

Well I don't know what to tell you I posted it all before in what worked for me and fixed the issues that i had with the first two.. Mostly Rey being a Mary Sue for no damn reason.. But with Palps as her grandfather it helped me swallow it all. I know you don't like the Dyad download thing but I was fine with that also. Han's goodbye to the Universe was done better, Poe was more like his TFA self and not TLJ. I actually like Luke in TLJ but it was good to hear him admit he was wrong.

My biggest issue with TFA was the all too powerful Rey. But there was an awakening and by the end of the series it made more sense. Also Kylo pretty much handles her in until the end and he was wounded. Kylo really handles her in TROS so as powerful as she is her saber skills are still no match for Kylo.. Which I should say that was another thing that saved it for me.. Kylo broke her down in a saber duel.

The film was fun and adventurous much like ANH with a darker ending like ESB.

So yeah.. The film saved the series as a whole for me. Now does that mean I suddenly like TFA and TLJ that much more.. IDK yet. I have yet to watch them since I watched this film. I know I have watched parts of them and there are still things I don't like. The look and Feel of TFA drives me crazy. It has a Star Trek the Next Generation feel to it and I hate it. I have always like the first 1/2 hour or so and Han is good in it until he uneventful feeling death. As for TLJ... I don't know if I can ever come to really like it. I like Luke in it and some of the Kylo and Rey stuff but that is about it.. I don't like about 65 - 70% of the film.

But hey I can enjoy the PT overall even though AOTC is an abomination and I can enjoy the OT even though ROTJ...……

Which leads me too

 

[Khev]

You really think TCW is bad? It's a cartoon intended for children with some pretty decent SW content. Of course some episodes are much stronger than others. Anyway it's just a fun kids show, and a much better representation of the Star Wars universe than the ST.

It definitely hasn't been my cup of tea (though I did follow it pretty regularly for at least four seasons.) I hated that they kept kid Fett around and all the stuff with Mandalorians prior to these latest two episodes pretty much annoyed me. If I were to say "okay give me one single episode that represents the pinnacle of the show for me to watch right now" is there one specific one you'd recommend that would rival the two episodes that we just got? That's not a loaded question, if there are other diamonds in the rough that I've missed I'd actually like to check them out.

And believe it or not I quite like Ahsoka as a character.

 

[Khev]

My biggest issue with TFA was the all too powerful Rey. But there was an awakening and by the end of the series it made more sense. Also Kylo pretty much handles her in until the end and he was wounded. Kylo really handles her in TROS so as powerful as she is her saber skills are still no match for Kylo.. Which I should say that was another thing that saved it for me.. Kylo broke her down in a saber duel.

Also Kylo was the first to rise after being drained by Palpatine and didn't need help from a dozen Jedi Spirits to do it. TROS absolutely handled both Rey and Kylo perfectly IMO. Her abilities were kept in check plus she was tainted by evil blood *and* behavior which made her more likable on both counts and then Kylo just became a total badass both as a villain and redeemed hero.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

It definitely hasn't been my cup of tea (though I did follow it pretty regularly for at least four seasons.) I hated that they kept kid Fett around and all the stuff with Mandalorians prior to these latest two episodes pretty much annoyed me. If I were to say "okay give me one single episode that represents the pinnacle of the show for me to watch right now" is there one specific one you'd recommend that would rival the two episodes that we just got? That's not a loaded question, if there are other diamonds in the rough that I've missed I'd actually like to check them out.

And believe it or not I quite like Ahsoka as a character.

I would honestly have to go back and rewatch to recommend anything as i can't really recall specific episodes. I think I have seen all of them at one time or another, I used to watch them with my nephew. Most of the time I enjoyed the dynamic between Ahsoka and Anakin, again taking into consideration the context of it being a kid's show. But I agree there were some annoying parts too like kid Fett. I also remember liking some of the stuff they did with Maul and Kenobi too, both together and independently. And I really liked Captain Rex. It's not ever dethroning the OT or coming close to The Mandalorian level of entertainment but I usually found it to be fun way to kill 25 minutes with my nephew.

I might try to watch it start to finish on Disney + now that new content is out there. I haven't seen the new stuff people are raving about yet.

 

[JAWS]

I just watche ROTJ in 4K - Picture detail and sound was nice. As for the film.


Hmmmmmm... I really have a love hate relationship with this film. When I was younger I always liked it but thought it was the weakest of the OT by far.

Then I went through a period of hating it.

Then I kind of liked it again.


But this last viewing I had tonight

Most of it has to do with the pace. I think that other then AOTC this might be the most boring SW film and I think its as boring as it is because other then Ian as Palps and Billy D as Lando? Everyone under acts in this film or does not even really try.

Mark Hamill is a bore as Serious Luke

Carrie Fisher is just awful as Coked up Leia. Man she can not deliver a line in this film, The scene with her and Luke talking about her being his sister and all rivals anything between Anakin and Padme in the PT.. Its so awful and most of it is because of Fisher. The writing does not help as this is a big moment for Leia.. Luke's her brother, Vader is her father and all she can muster is "Hold Me"

Harrison Ford seems to think all of his acting should come from overexaggerating his mouth movements when he is talking.. He is also reduced to a clown.

Ewok forest battle has always been boring to me and I don't even hate Ewoks.. Too much time spent with them and Han tryin to hot wire a door.. Blah.

James Earl Jones I know I know he is supposed to be all confused because he loves his son and all.. but man after What He did in ESB with his voice of quivering anger and his killing of any commander who screws up is really missed in this film. He is Ok in the opening scene but this film really needed a bad ass moment or two for Vader.

I know its three years after Empire but his turn to a marshmallow seems too quick.

I have never been really sold in the Luke / Vader relationship. I mean here is the guy who is killing his way through the galaxy that you don't even know and you suddenly you want to go to the park and play catch with him... I can see Vader's side a bit better but he went far too mushy.

While Ian is good as Palps.. I never cared for all his trash talk to Luke.. Mostly because its just Luke staring out a window.. It just seems to take forever for the final conflict between Vader and Luke.

The Saber Duel is saved by John Williams score when Luke goes Dark Side but the duel as a whole is one of the series worst.

A better Director could have really helped this film for sure.


I do like Jabba.. I mean I love Jabba.. What a great character and he is perfectly done as a Giant Puppet.

I love all the space battle stuff and find it to still be the best of all the SW films.. Yep even better then RO.

I do like Vader's redemption also.

Overall I like it OK because its SW but man the OT deserved a much better ending

 

[JAWS]

Watching ROTJ this last time I was kind of LOLing at the celebration of all the planets at the end thinking.. Well Palps is still around and a new Empire is about to come about... I find myself thinking about everyone who hate that the ST ruin this ending... And I get it.. but two things.

1. All the crap in the ST does not start to happen for probably about IDK like 20 years.. So that's 20 years of a happiness.

2. Since George changed everything around and said he wanted the series to be about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Well the film Succeeded in doing that so the ST does not make the events of ROTJ irrelevant.

 

[Khev]

I just watche ROTJ in 4K - Picture detail and sound was nice. As for the film.


Hmmmmmm... I really have a love hate relationship with this film. When I was younger I always liked it but thought it was the weakest of the OT by far.

Then I went through a period of hating it.

Then I kind of liked it again.


But this last viewing I had tonight

Most of it has to do with the pace. I think that other then AOTC this might be the most boring SW film and I think its as boring as it is because other then Ian as Palps and Billy D as Lando? Everyone under acts in this film or does not even really try.

Mark Hamill is a bore as Serious Luke

Carrie Fisher is just awful as Coked up Leia. Man she can not deliver a line in this film, The scene with her and Luke talking about her being his sister and all rivals anything between Anakin and Padme in the PT.. Its so awful and most of it is because of Fisher. The writing does not help as this is a big moment for Leia.. Luke's her brother, Vader is her father and all she can muster is "Hold Me"

Harrison Ford seems to think all of his acting should come from overexaggerating his mouth movements when he is talking.. He is also reduced to a clown.

Ewok forest battle has always been boring to me and I don't even hate Ewoks.. Too much time spent with them and Han tryin to hot wire a door.. Blah.

James Earl Jones I know I know he is supposed to be all confused because he loves his son and all.. but man after What He did in ESB with his voice of quivering anger and his killing of any commander who screws up is really missed in this film. He is Ok in the opening scene but this film really needed a bad ass moment or two for Vader.

I know its three years after Empire but his turn to a marshmallow seems too quick.

I have never been really sold in the Luke / Vader relationship. I mean here is the guy who is killing his way through the galaxy that you don't even know and you suddenly you want to go to the park and play catch with him... I can see Vader's side a bit better but he went far too mushy.

While Ian is good as Palps.. I never cared for all his trash talk to Luke.. Mostly because its just Luke staring out a window.. It just seems to take forever for the final conflict between Vader and Luke.

The Saber Duel is saved by John Williams score when Luke goes Dark Side but the duel as a whole is one of the series worst.

A better Director could have really helped this film for sure.


I do like Jabba.. I mean I love Jabba.. What a great character and he is perfectly done as a Giant Puppet.

I love all the space battle stuff and find it to still be the best of all the SW films.. Yep even better then RO.

I do like Vader's redemption also.

Overall I like it OK because its SW but man the OT deserved a much better ending

Holy crap that is an absolutely skewering, lol. Palpatine trash talking while Luke stares out a window. It's true though...

*Now* do you see why I prefer the Exegol throne room scene over ROTJ? Even if you still put ROTJ higher I bet my preference for Exegol is at least a little easier to understand.

 

[JAWS]

What a load of ****.

It definitely hasn't been my cup of tea (though I did follow it pretty regularly for at least four seasons.) I hated that they kept kid Fett around and all the stuff with Mandalorians prior to these latest two episodes pretty much annoyed me. If I were to say "okay give me one single episode that represents the pinnacle of the show for me to watch right now" is there one specific one you'd recommend that would rival the two episodes that we just got? That's not a loaded question, if there are other diamonds in the rough that I've missed I'd actually like to check them out.

And believe it or not I quite like Ahsoka as a character.

The last 6 episodes of Season 5 are pretty great.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

1. All the crap in the ST does not start to happen for probably about IDK like 20 years.. So that's 20 years of a happiness.

Did you see how their lives turned out in the ST???

 

[JAWS]

Holy crap that is an absolutely skewering, lol. Palpatine trash talking while Luke stares out a window. It's true though...

*Now* do you see why I prefer the Exegol throne room scene over ROTJ? Even if you still put ROTJ higher I bet my preference for Exegol is at least a little easier to understand.

Dude I think I am pretty sure I like TROS a lot more then ROTJ.

Time will tell but at least the acting will always hold up for the most part.

I don't know if I ever had a problem with you like TROS thrown room over ROTJ thrown room. I always loved all that in TROS... But Yes... Yes I can see why


Maybe this is why the ST did not feel like it ruined the OT cast for me. ROTJ already did it. Say what you want about what they became story wise.. At least as actors they gave it their best and put in good performances.

 

[JAWS]

Did you see how their lives turned out in the ST???

Yep.. and even then they all seemed happier then they did in ROTJ

 

[JAWS]

Tros has the best lightsaber duel of all time enough said. Everyone who hates the st, pt and ot zealots included, have to admit this. I love the ot but the lightsaber duels left much to be desired in terms of fight choreography.

What a load of ****.

While I don't agree that TROS has the best lightsaber duel of the series I do like it better then ANH, ROTJ, AOTC, ROTS, and TFA.

Empire and TPM will always be tops for me
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